Dean's won me over

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MKSheppard
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Dean's won me over

Post by MKSheppard »

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Nov/11022003 ... 107584.asp

A dispute over gun control between John Kerry and Howard Dean moved on to the subject of civil rights Saturday, as the Massachusetts senator chided his presidential rival for declaring, "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks."

Kerry proclaimed that the statement, made by Dean on Friday as the two clashed over gun issues, was both insensitive racially and "a level of pandering for votes that is devoid of principle."

In a telephone interview from Iowa, where he was campaigning, Kerry added: "Howard Dean is fast becoming the say-anything-to-get-elected candidate. . . . He's shifting fundamental positions to get votes. It says little about 'straight talk' and even less about principles."

A Dean aide dismissed the criticism, saying that Dean had previously used Confederate flag imagery in his speechmaking and that his comment was not about race, but broadening the field of potential Democratic voters.

"We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section," said Dean spokeswoman Tricia Enright. She said Dean is reaching out to "white Southern workers who have been voting Republican for 30 years and have nothing to show for it."

Other candidates joined Kerry in criticizing Dean on Saturday.
Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, for example, called Dean's remark "nothing short of offensive."

*************

:mrgreen: where do I get my Dean posters, Ice? :mrgreen:[/u]
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Post by Iceberg »

Ah, out of context paraphrases, the loser's best friend. The quotation that Mr. Kerry mangles was this:

"I intend to talk about race in this election in the south because the Republicans have been talking about it since 1968 in order to divide us. And I'm going to bring us together, because you know what? White folks in the south who drive pickups trucks with confederate flags decals in the back ought to be voting with us and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either and their kids need better schools too."
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Post by SirNitram »

YE FLIPPIN' GODS, MARK'S GONE NUTS! 50,000 volts STAT!

Seriously though, I'm not surprised. Dean's gun control plan is nicely in tune with the quintessential 'redneck'. That he openly announced he wants to get in touch with them is no surprise. That Kerry tried to turn it into mudslinging surprises me less.
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Post by Durandal »

It's nice that he's trying to appeal to a broad range of voters, but just what compromises is he willing to make to get their votes?
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Post by MKSheppard »

Durandal wrote:It's nice that he's trying to appeal to a broad range of voters, but just what compromises is he willing to make to get their votes?
"I will not sign into law a expanded Assualt weapons ban"
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Post by Iceberg »

In essence, Dean is adopting a play out of the GOP's playbook: Reaching out to voters who AREN'T part of your traditional power base. Kerry's fading, Clark's initial blip of support turned out to be exactly that, and Gephardt's too much of an insider to capture more than Iowa.

If Dean gets the early trifecta (IA-NH-SC), he's unstoppable.
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Post by MKSheppard »

Iceberg wrote:In essence, Dean is adopting a play out of the GOP's playbook: Reaching out to voters who AREN'T part of your traditional power base.
Correction, from Bill Clinton's playbook.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

"The present air situation in the Pacific is entirely the result of fighting a fifth rate air power." - U.S. Navy Memo - 24 July 1944
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Post by Nathan F »

So what's Dean's position on gun control, and affirmative action?

What are some of his basic platforms?
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Post by Iceberg »

Nathan F wrote:So what's Dean's position on gun control, and affirmative action?

What are some of his basic platforms?
http://www.deandefense.org/faq/

The Dean Defense Force FAQ, in some ways more comprehensive than the candidate's own website.
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Post by Iceberg »

"I didn't think it was proper of the press to print all that stuff about the [Bush] twins drinking. Those girls are just girls and the only reason they got their names in the paper is because they are daughters of the president of the United States." - Howard Dean
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Post by RedImperator »

Damn it, Dean is so close to me on so many issues and diametrically opposed to me on a few issues that happen to be the most important ones to me. <sigh> Wonder who the Libertarians are running this year.
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Post by Howedar »

*checks for freeze in Hell*
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Post by SirNitram »

RedImperator wrote:Damn it, Dean is so close to me on so many issues and diametrically opposed to me on a few issues that happen to be the most important ones to me. <sigh> Wonder who the Libertarians are running this year.
At the risk of asking a personal question, what are the few that are that important?
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Post by MKSheppard »

SirNitram wrote: At the risk of asking a personal question, what are the few that are that important?
See his SIG.
"If scientists and inventors who develop disease cures and useful technologies don't get lifetime royalties, I'd like to know what fucking rationale you have for some guy getting lifetime royalties for writing an episode of Full House." - Mike Wong

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Post by Joe »

If Dean didn't support gay marriage he would have enormous potential in the South.
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Post by Glocksman »

I started leaning towards Dean months ago when Bush announced his renewed support for the so-called AWB.

If the Republican is going to screw me on the gun issue, I might as well start voting my pocketbook and find the least objectionable Democrat on the gun issue.

That Democrat is Howard Dean.

I'll be voting for Dean in the Democratic primary and if he wins the nomination, I'll vote for him in the general election.

However, FDR'll be having a snowball fight with Satan in Hell before I'd vote for any of the other Democratic candidates. If Dean loses the nomination, I'll vote 3rd party.
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Post by Joe »

Honestly, the only thing I find attractive about Bush is the fact that he's willing to fight for tax cuts, even when they're not politically expedient. His foreign policy I don't dislike but he's done such a shitty job handling it.

I don't plan on voting, but I'm starting to wonder whether or not the Republican candidate is really the lesser evil this time.
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Post by Howedar »

You should always vote.
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Post by Joe »

Howedar wrote:You should always vote.
I understand your position but I just can't find a candidate who I can get behind this election cycle.
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Post by Nathan F »

Thanks for the site, I haven't had a chance to look through it thoroughly, but I didn't see anything about gun control from skimming it. Did I miss something, or is this just not included? Gun control is a pet issue with me, and I'd like to know what Dean thinks about it.
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Post by Howedar »

Dean's campaign's official site wrote:Vermont has one of the lowest homicide rates in the United States. During my 11 years as Governor, the highest number of murders in a single year was 25 and the lowest number was five. Over half of these were domestic assaults, and the majority were not committed with a firearm.

If you say ?gun control? in Vermont or Wyoming, people think it means taking away their hunting rifle. If you say "gun control" in New York City or Los Angeles, people are relieved at the prospect of having Uzis or illegal handguns taken off the streets. They?re both right. That?s why I think Vermont ought to be able to have a different set of laws than California.

I believe the federal gun laws we have -- like the Brady Bill -- are important, and I would veto any attempt to repeal or gut them. The Assault Weapons Ban expires next year, and it should be renewed. Although President Bush has claimed he supports renewing it, he is talking out both sides of his mouth; his staff has signaled that he doesn?t want or expect Congress to renew the ban, and that is wrong.

I don?t think we need a lot of new federal laws. But we do need to do a few things at the federal level, like requiring Insta-Check on all retail and gun show sales. We also must do a better job of enforcing the laws on the books. President Bush promised to be tough in enforcing gun laws, but his Administration has prosecuted only about 2% of all gun crimes and they are virtually ignoring 20 of the 22 major federal gun laws on the books. That is an abysmal record, and as President, I?d make tough enforcement a reality, not just political rhetoric.

After that, I would let the states decide for themselves what, if any, additional gun safety laws they want. Just as we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our school systems and what kind of welfare programs to have, we need to resist attempts to tell states how to deal with guns beyond existing federal law and fixing a few loopholes and problems.
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Post by Howedar »

I guess UBB doesn't like nesting. Oh well. The url is this

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Post by Durandal »

Jesus Christ, is every Republican here a one-issue voter?

EDIT: Changed "conservative" to "Republican."
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Post by Sea Skimmer »

Durandal wrote:Jesus Christ, is every Republican here a one-issue voter?

EDIT: Changed "conservative" to "Republican."
It is an issue in which you can see real results, unlike most
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Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

Durandal wrote:Jesus Christ, is every Republican here a one-issue voter?

EDIT: Changed "conservative" to "Republican."
Well, if Bush actually signs the AWB, I'll vote Libertarian in protest.
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