some actual sense from Fox News

[Col. Crackpot]

well, it's from the CATO institute actually......
a great op-ed on foolhardy government regulations and how they stomp on the average person.

[Stormbringer]

well, it's from the CATO institute actually......
a great op-ed on foolhardy government regulations and how they stomp on the average person.

That's hardly suprising. The government paper pushers are typically indifferent when they're not actively abusive.

[Col. Crackpot]

well, it's from the CATO institute actually......
a great op-ed on foolhardy government regulations and how they stomp on the average person.

That's hardly suprising. The government paper pushers are typically indifferent when they're not actively abusive.

indiffernce and apathy are just as dangerous as abuse and oppression.

[Stormbringer]

indiffernce and apathy are just as dangerous as abuse and oppression.

I'm well aware of that.


Really, I have my doubts about whether the American republic can survive all the paper pushers.

[Iceberg]

*YAWN*

Learn the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence, then get back to me.

[The Albino Raven]

there is an easily distinguishable difference between statistics and anecdotes. It's a lot easier to ignore the numbers, since you don't have to look at the people's faces.

[Stormbringer]

*YAWN*

Learn the difference between anecdotal evidence and statistical evidence, then get back to me.

The fact is even a handful of such abuses are far two many.


And that doesn't change the fact that this is a growing and dangerous trend. So far as I know, no formal survey of governmental abuses have been done. I certainly we be interested in seeing the results.

[Darth Wong]

Holy shit. Look at this excerpt:

Arizona brake repairman Randy Bailey, 40, faced the loss of his three-decades-old family business when Mesa city officials used eminent domain to condemn his shop so the land could be used for a hardware store expansion. This form of coercion and corporate welfare, pursued in the name of the public good, is commonplace.

City officials in Hurst, Texas, tried to increase tax revenues by condemning an entire neighborhood subdivision and giving the land to a mall developer for a parking lot. Florida's Riviera Beach City Council condemned 1,700 homes and apartments and 150 small businesses to provide land for big developers who wanted to construct a commercial yachting center.

I know "eminent domain" has long been a tool used by governments to run roughshod over property rights, but 1700 homes? Unbe-fucking-lievable.

[TrailerParkJawa]

Holy shit. Look at this excerpt:

Arizona brake repairman Randy Bailey, 40, faced the loss of his three-decades-old family business when Mesa city officials used eminent domain to condemn his shop so the land could be used for a hardware store expansion. This form of coercion and corporate welfare, pursued in the name of the public good, is commonplace.

This paticular case was on 60 Minutes it is a fucking shame and total abuse of power. They want to let an ACE hardware store move into a bigger facility. The owner of the ACE store was a complete fuck , he would not acknowledge this was for his benefit, he just kept saying it was for the public good. If he ( the ACE owner ) cant buy the brake store out, then he should not get to expand.

[LadyTevar]

Editorials from the Charleston Gazette (www.wvgazette.com) for 11/07/2003 on money being spent for private business.

Astounding

$100 million for Cabela’s?


ALTOGETHER, taxpayers may sink nearly $100 million into the Cabela’s hunting-fishing superstore near Wheeling. That includes a $35 million state economic development grant, a $13 million highway interchange, another $13 million in super tax credits, $2 million from the Ohio County Commission and $30 million in tax-increment financing. Under the latter provision, Cabela’s will put up its own construction money, then repay itself in coming years, plus interest, by retaining sales taxes it collects from customers.

Never before in state history has so much public money been poured into a private business. In contrast, the Toyota engine plant in Putnam County got $2.3 million in grants, $15 million in super tax credits, and the benefit of a new $21 million Kanawha River bridge.

Maybe the Cabela’s plan is a good investment. But a disturbing question lingers: Hundreds of other corporations have used their own money to build their West Virginia facilities. Should they now demand an equal free ride from taxpayers?

WasteTranspark studies


MILLIONS of taxpayer dollars have been squandered on the doomed effort to hobble Charleston’s handy Yeager Airport and divert airline service far away to a regional transpark in Lincoln County.

Most of the money went to out-of-state consultants who prepared studies proving what the Lincoln backers wanted. Now one of the studies is causing trouble.

Earth Tech, a subsidiary of the corruption-racked Tyco conglomerate, was given $1.26 million for a cost-benefit analysis of the Lincoln plan. Naturally, it produced a report saying the Lincoln facility would produce nearly a half-billion in savings in 15 years.

The study was worthless. The Federal Aviation Administration declared that it contained “incomplete information, incorrect assumptions and incorrect or confusing methodology.” Earth Tech was given $175,000 more to redo the study.

But now, long past deadline for the cost-benefit report, the state Public Port Authority, chief sponsor of the Lincoln plan, won’t release available drafts of it. Kanawha County Commissioner Kent Carper, outspoken foe of the plan, is trying to flush the report out into the daylight.

What a mess. The people paid $1.4 million for the report, but the people can’t learn what it says.

The Lincoln plan has no chance of success. It should be shelved, ending the hemorrhage of public funds.

There is also a fight within the Charleston City Council over whether or not CURA (Charleston Urban Renewal Agency) can use immenient domain to clear a site for a grocery store. This is especially sensetive, because on a sidestreet just two blocks away are two (2) empty grocery store buildings that have been unused for over 5 years. No grocery store wants them because they aren't on the the main thoroughfare.

Also, Charleston is continuing to go through with plans to build a multi-million dollar baseball park, simply because the team's owner told them build it or we leave. Considering the fact that the team can't even fill the stands of the old stadium, and that the money raised could and would be able to upgrade it instead, you can understand why this move has upset many residents.

[The Dark]

I know "eminent domain" has long been a tool used by governments to run roughshod over property rights, but 1700 homes? Unbe-fucking-lievable.

*shrug* The current American President used eminent domain when owner of the Texas Rangers to claim the land to build their new stadium. And then let the blame fall on the government agency, requiring taxpayer dollars to be used to defend the right of the government to take land to build a private sports stadium. Molly Ivins documented the chain of events fairly well (though I don't have it with me right now; copy's at parents' house).

[Darth Wong]

It's funny how, despite all the talk about individual rights and liberties, the American government reserves the right to fuck you over for your land at any time it wishes.

[Howedar]

Well, I think it is important that the government mantain the theoretical need. You can't have some asshole in a single house preventing the contruction of a factory in WW2, for instance.

I think it should be incredibly unusual though.

[Darth Wong]

Well, I think it is important that the government mantain the theoretical need. You can't have some asshole in a single house preventing the contruction of a factory in WW2, for instance.

I think it should be incredibly unusual though.

If it was restricted to matters where a clear and present danger to national security is being mitigated by the use of "eminent domain", I wouldn't have a problem with it. But making room to construct a new baseball stadium? Fuck that. If they want the land, they can pay whatever the owner wants them to pay.

[Sea Skimmer]

If it was restricted to matters where a clear and present danger to national security is being mitigated by the use of "eminent domain", I wouldn't have a problem with it.

That was why it was enacted in the first place.

But making room to construct a new baseball stadium? Fuck that. If they want the land, they can pay whatever the owner wants them to pay.

The big problem is states and even cities are now using it, when it was originally reserved for the federal government only.

[Joe]

he big problem is states and even cities are now using it, when it was originally reserved for the federal government only.

Not really. The power of eminent domain predates the United States and has been used by states and cities in the past, many times.

[Howedar]

If it was restricted to matters where a clear and present danger to national security is being mitigated by the use of "eminent domain", I wouldn't have a problem with it. But making room to construct a new baseball stadium? Fuck that. If they want the land, they can pay whatever the owner wants them to pay.

Basically my position in a nutshell.