The Nebuchadnezzar may not have had guns. (The original ship may not have had mount points or the Zionists may not have the resources to install guns on ships without them. I think through each iteration of Zion, the machines supply them with a small resistance package... probably including the open-cockpit mecha for easy takeover once the One appears.)Illuminatus Primus wrote:Well, the ship does have to be grounded while Neo was in the Matrix, but Trinity could've still manned the guns or gun (Morpheus was charging the EMP, and Tank had to guide Neo as Operator).
The official Revolutions DISCUSSION thread
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I believe someone noticed that The Matrix-era Nebuchadnezzar did have guns.
However, if it did not, and merely Enter the Matrix and The Matrix: Revolutions is the cause of all this decrying against The Matrix's suspense, than its just an example of anti-Matrix histrionia and hasty generalizations.
However, if it did not, and merely Enter the Matrix and The Matrix: Revolutions is the cause of all this decrying against The Matrix's suspense, than its just an example of anti-Matrix histrionia and hasty generalizations.
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I agree, I thought it was good until I read the transcript. You haveVympel wrote: 5. Neo's a moron. Bane's sitting there calling him Mr Anderson and he just doesn't get it.
to admit that the burning Smith over bane in NeoVision was sort of
cool.
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I'm going to go farther than those giping about the DBZ rip-off, if only because I've actually seen most of it. The Smith resolution was a blatant rip-off of DBZ movie number six, where Metal Cooler(and his ridiculous army of duplicates, gee what a coincidence 
) gets overloaded absorbing Goku and Vegita's energy after kicking the living shit out of them.
Problem I have, the guns in flight of the Osiris were barely able to keep Sentinels at bay, much less destroy them in huge numbers. Possible solution, Osiris and Nebuchadnezzar were a lighter design of scout ships, and their guns didn't have the penetration to kill Sentinels. Reason for this stupid design decision, unknown.
The rescue of Neo from the station was also a horrible cop-out, as soon as Trinity got off, the Train should have pulled out, letting Neo form some kind of portal out of there. This would also have given an excuse to have Neo start teleporting throughout the Matrix, compelting the DBZ movie six rip-off, because there is no sense in being half-assed about your plagiarising.
) gets overloaded absorbing Goku and Vegita's energy after kicking the living shit out of them.Problem I have, the guns in flight of the Osiris were barely able to keep Sentinels at bay, much less destroy them in huge numbers. Possible solution, Osiris and Nebuchadnezzar were a lighter design of scout ships, and their guns didn't have the penetration to kill Sentinels. Reason for this stupid design decision, unknown.
The rescue of Neo from the station was also a horrible cop-out, as soon as Trinity got off, the Train should have pulled out, letting Neo form some kind of portal out of there. This would also have given an excuse to have Neo start teleporting throughout the Matrix, compelting the DBZ movie six rip-off, because there is no sense in being half-assed about your plagiarising.
If you've seen the fantastic Korean (i believe) film Nowhere to Hide, you'll also see that the entire Smith-Neo fight was taken from the final scene in that film, with both heroes facing off each other in the rain in a Leone-esque standoff, finally running at each other where they both punch. They even used some of the same shots. Who cares anyway, you got to get your influences from somewhere.consequences wrote:I'm going to go farther than those giping about the DBZ rip-off, if only because I've actually seen most of it. The Smith resolution was a blatant rip-off of DBZ movie number six, where Metal Cooler(and his ridiculous army of duplicates, gee what a coincidence
I'll swallow your soul!
Girl whose name I forgot gets stabbed by Bane with a scalpel under her ribcage: Dies almost instantly.Vympel wrote: 2. Incredibly bad dialog. EVERYTHING was delivered in that shocking, pretentious Matrix sermon shit, with the dramatic pauses between replies and the very severe looks. Oh, and about Trinity: worst death speech EVER! Just fucking DIE!
Trinity gets impaled on five metal pipes, which looks like they hit a few vital organs: Lives long enough to give a long speech then asks Neo to kiss her.
Tune in next time, for Matrix Z!
BoTM, MM, HAB, JL
I thought it was better when they were blatantly ripping off Ghost in the Shell.
Because at least then the action scenes were kept to the point (so they could get back to the pseudointellectual babble, unfortunately), rather than repeating the exact same stunt over, and over, and over. Even in the extended action scenes in The Matrix, like the lobby scene, every shot had a new stunt.
I enjoyed Revolutions, it was better than Reloaded (which wasn't the utter shitebag that most people seem to think, but was simply arse-numbingly average), but it didn't get me high. Truly great movies leave me buzzing, leave my nerves alive, drugged up on my own adrenaline and endorphins.
I liked the defence of Zion, because it was the Big Mad Sci-Fi Battle that the Beard seems not to want to give us, and becuause the Appleseed geek within wants to see mechs with guns blowing shit up. I also liked the way the senitenels acted in shoals, because it was convincingly staged and innovative. Plus was a marginally sensible tactic, given how fragile they were individually, and that their primary advantages seemed to be numbers and the crap design of the enemy mechs. Less Powerloader, more Guges would have helped.
I was unconvinced about the initial scenes, because they just reprised the lobby scene without Spybreak, and because it was a crap way to resolve the Merovingian out of the story.
I knew the ending. I knew the deal Neo was going to make, and what would come of it. It was competently staged, but the principal players in it where characters in whom I'd lost any shred of interest by the end of the first film. In fact, the only character who provoked any stirring in my gizzard in Relaoded or Revolutions was Smith. A good bad guy can turn a good movie into a total kick in the ass, even when he's playing across from a complete plank (cf. Die Hard), but the rest of the film wasn't good enough for Smith to elevate it that far.
When Neo was doing his wavy-arm-fu at the end in the abandoned warehouse, I almost wanted him to chuck a kamehameha. And I fuicking despise Dragonball. It would, at least, have thrown in a bit of variation.
The Wachowkis seem to think that if they can chuck enough rendering time at replicating an effect an animator could do by hand in half the time, it will impress people. It won't. What impresses people is showing something that plainly isn't[/] real, and making it act convincingly enough for them to give a shit about it as a character. Smeagol pisses upon all your flashy raindrop rendering power, because he's a completely cgi construct, no-one ever mistakes him for a real hobbit broken and twisted by owndership of an evil artifact and living under a mountain for a thousand years, but people treat him the same as they do the plainly real people he's interacting with, as a real character in the film. (contrast, Jar-Jar is never convincingly real, so we don't give a shit either way about him)
Because at least then the action scenes were kept to the point (so they could get back to the pseudointellectual babble, unfortunately), rather than repeating the exact same stunt over, and over, and over. Even in the extended action scenes in The Matrix, like the lobby scene, every shot had a new stunt.
I enjoyed Revolutions, it was better than Reloaded (which wasn't the utter shitebag that most people seem to think, but was simply arse-numbingly average), but it didn't get me high. Truly great movies leave me buzzing, leave my nerves alive, drugged up on my own adrenaline and endorphins.
I liked the defence of Zion, because it was the Big Mad Sci-Fi Battle that the Beard seems not to want to give us, and becuause the Appleseed geek within wants to see mechs with guns blowing shit up. I also liked the way the senitenels acted in shoals, because it was convincingly staged and innovative. Plus was a marginally sensible tactic, given how fragile they were individually, and that their primary advantages seemed to be numbers and the crap design of the enemy mechs. Less Powerloader, more Guges would have helped.
I was unconvinced about the initial scenes, because they just reprised the lobby scene without Spybreak, and because it was a crap way to resolve the Merovingian out of the story.
I knew the ending. I knew the deal Neo was going to make, and what would come of it. It was competently staged, but the principal players in it where characters in whom I'd lost any shred of interest by the end of the first film. In fact, the only character who provoked any stirring in my gizzard in Relaoded or Revolutions was Smith. A good bad guy can turn a good movie into a total kick in the ass, even when he's playing across from a complete plank (cf. Die Hard), but the rest of the film wasn't good enough for Smith to elevate it that far.
When Neo was doing his wavy-arm-fu at the end in the abandoned warehouse, I almost wanted him to chuck a kamehameha. And I fuicking despise Dragonball. It would, at least, have thrown in a bit of variation.
The Wachowkis seem to think that if they can chuck enough rendering time at replicating an effect an animator could do by hand in half the time, it will impress people. It won't. What impresses people is showing something that plainly isn't[/] real, and making it act convincingly enough for them to give a shit about it as a character. Smeagol pisses upon all your flashy raindrop rendering power, because he's a completely cgi construct, no-one ever mistakes him for a real hobbit broken and twisted by owndership of an evil artifact and living under a mountain for a thousand years, but people treat him the same as they do the plainly real people he's interacting with, as a real character in the film. (contrast, Jar-Jar is never convincingly real, so we don't give a shit either way about him)
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nonono, in Drgonball Z you have to be completley obliterated n order to die, bleeding to death and the utter ruination of vital organs doesnt do it anymoreExonerate wrote:
Trinity gets impaled on five metal pipes, which looks like they hit a few vital organs: Lives long enough to give a long speech then asks Neo to kiss her.
Tune in next time, for Matrix Z!
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Just saw it; I got my ticket for $5 from a scalper, so I don't think I was too cheated. My thoughts are as follows.
First, some general stuff:
- They went for the Gregorian chants in the final scene. Gregorian chants appear to be somewhat overused in 'epic' scenes, but it worked, and it worked well.
- Did Seraph lose his keys? What the hell happened to them?
- Did the Agents take a wrong turn? What the hell happened to them?
- The whole train thing made no sense. Was the train area part of the Matrix? Was it a 'backdoor'-type thing? Where were they smuggling their daughter into? Another part of the Matrix, obviously, but what is the difference between that and the place where the Indians 'came from'? Bizarre.
- Who? Why? What? How? Neo would have made an excellant reporter.
- I don't think rain can do that.
- The ol' 'running right back into the frame' trick. I liked it.
Now, the Good, and then the Bad, and the Ugly.
The Good
Best. Special. Effects. Ever.
God, that kicked ass. Superior, more visceral effects I have never seen. The final battle was breathtaking, the chase scene looked great, the Smith.vs.Neo fight was awesome.
Bane
The actor (one 'Ian Bliss', who does not appear to have had a very illustrious film career) was excellant; much better than Reeves. He nailed Smith dead-on.
It's Not as Bad as Reloaded
No, really, it's not. Not as good plotwise as the original, in my opinion, but not the disaster that was Reloaded.
The Plot and Pacing Didn't Completely Suck
The pacing was much better than in Reloaded and the plot was slightly more comprehensible. However, the execution could have been much better. They also wasted much less time on psychoblabble, which was a relief.
Smith
Smith was well worth my $5. Probably the best performance of the trilogy. He's creepy, cool, and kickass. Too bad he didn't win.
The Dialouge
Just kidding.
The Bad
Archer Jones Would Have Wept To See It
The battle for Zion, while visually stunning, was nonetheless a hodgepodge of idiotic tactics, incompetant strategies, useless equipment, a host of brainbugs, and generally unforgivable stupidity.
The Machines
- Guns would have been nice. Why didn't anyone ever think of putting actual guns on the Sentinals? Why didn't they ever turn their carving lasers on the defenders?
- You're allowed to attack. No, seriously, you are. You outnumber them several thousand to one, so while it may be an impressive statement of superiority to simply waft about the room and occasionally overwhelm a mech, it's not very smart.
- They had three drills. Instead of dropping the first one in and then dropping the second in after the first was destroyed, they should have sent the first two into the dockyard at the same time in different directions. Tht nicely avoids the bottleneck and allows them to overwhelm the Zionists much faster.
- Put guns on the fucking Sentinals. Dumbasses.
The Zionists
- Combined arms means more than two types of infantry.
- Incidentally, tanks are much stronger, present a smaller target profile, and do not easily topple over as mechs. They also provide adequete protection for the crew, so they cannot get sliced up by the machines and die unless the tank has already been destroyed.
- Mortars and heavy time-on-target artillery would have been nice.
- Entrenched positions, people. The machines succumb to infantry weapons easily enough, so a few hardened machine gun nests and pillboxes couldn't have hurt.
- Obviously they did not understand the concepts of reserves. If they had held back a few ships instead of throwing them all into the battle in Reloaded, they would have been able to hold out much longer. In addition, if they had held a reserve of EMPs, they would have won without divine intervention. It doesn't matter that the first EMP knocks out all the defending weapons. Simply withdraw all your forces to the temple and seal off the dock. As the machines swarm in, detonate the first. When the second wave comes, move the second one in, and detonate. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Control Has No Purpose
Good thing the themes of control and purpose were not brutally raped by idiotic one-liners! Ha ha ha...damn.
'Because I choose to.' Oooh, good one. You fight Smith because you have control over your own actions, and your purpose is to destroy him. Excellant. Too bad it was the corniest fucking line ever.
The Merovingian
He got pathetically written out of the plot. He had literally like eight minutes of screentime, and then he doesn't reappear once in the entire film. His only purpose could have made completely irrelevant if Neo had just woken up out of his coma on his own. What a waste.
The Ugly, aka...
...The Dialouge
It was excrutiating. It was agonizing. It was tedious. It was utterly predictable. Why indeed.
First, some general stuff:
- They went for the Gregorian chants in the final scene. Gregorian chants appear to be somewhat overused in 'epic' scenes, but it worked, and it worked well.
- Did Seraph lose his keys? What the hell happened to them?
- Did the Agents take a wrong turn? What the hell happened to them?
- The whole train thing made no sense. Was the train area part of the Matrix? Was it a 'backdoor'-type thing? Where were they smuggling their daughter into? Another part of the Matrix, obviously, but what is the difference between that and the place where the Indians 'came from'? Bizarre.
- Who? Why? What? How? Neo would have made an excellant reporter.
- I don't think rain can do that.
- The ol' 'running right back into the frame' trick. I liked it.
Now, the Good, and then the Bad, and the Ugly.
The Good
Best. Special. Effects. Ever.
God, that kicked ass. Superior, more visceral effects I have never seen. The final battle was breathtaking, the chase scene looked great, the Smith.vs.Neo fight was awesome.
Bane
The actor (one 'Ian Bliss', who does not appear to have had a very illustrious film career) was excellant; much better than Reeves. He nailed Smith dead-on.
It's Not as Bad as Reloaded
No, really, it's not. Not as good plotwise as the original, in my opinion, but not the disaster that was Reloaded.
The Plot and Pacing Didn't Completely Suck
The pacing was much better than in Reloaded and the plot was slightly more comprehensible. However, the execution could have been much better. They also wasted much less time on psychoblabble, which was a relief.
Smith
Smith was well worth my $5. Probably the best performance of the trilogy. He's creepy, cool, and kickass. Too bad he didn't win.
The Dialouge
Just kidding.
The Bad
Archer Jones Would Have Wept To See It
The battle for Zion, while visually stunning, was nonetheless a hodgepodge of idiotic tactics, incompetant strategies, useless equipment, a host of brainbugs, and generally unforgivable stupidity.
The Machines
- Guns would have been nice. Why didn't anyone ever think of putting actual guns on the Sentinals? Why didn't they ever turn their carving lasers on the defenders?
- You're allowed to attack. No, seriously, you are. You outnumber them several thousand to one, so while it may be an impressive statement of superiority to simply waft about the room and occasionally overwhelm a mech, it's not very smart.
- They had three drills. Instead of dropping the first one in and then dropping the second in after the first was destroyed, they should have sent the first two into the dockyard at the same time in different directions. Tht nicely avoids the bottleneck and allows them to overwhelm the Zionists much faster.
- Put guns on the fucking Sentinals. Dumbasses.
The Zionists
- Combined arms means more than two types of infantry.
- Incidentally, tanks are much stronger, present a smaller target profile, and do not easily topple over as mechs. They also provide adequete protection for the crew, so they cannot get sliced up by the machines and die unless the tank has already been destroyed.
- Mortars and heavy time-on-target artillery would have been nice.
- Entrenched positions, people. The machines succumb to infantry weapons easily enough, so a few hardened machine gun nests and pillboxes couldn't have hurt.
- Obviously they did not understand the concepts of reserves. If they had held back a few ships instead of throwing them all into the battle in Reloaded, they would have been able to hold out much longer. In addition, if they had held a reserve of EMPs, they would have won without divine intervention. It doesn't matter that the first EMP knocks out all the defending weapons. Simply withdraw all your forces to the temple and seal off the dock. As the machines swarm in, detonate the first. When the second wave comes, move the second one in, and detonate. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Control Has No Purpose
Good thing the themes of control and purpose were not brutally raped by idiotic one-liners! Ha ha ha...damn.
'Because I choose to.' Oooh, good one. You fight Smith because you have control over your own actions, and your purpose is to destroy him. Excellant. Too bad it was the corniest fucking line ever.
The Merovingian
He got pathetically written out of the plot. He had literally like eight minutes of screentime, and then he doesn't reappear once in the entire film. His only purpose could have made completely irrelevant if Neo had just woken up out of his coma on his own. What a waste.
The Ugly, aka...
...The Dialouge
It was excrutiating. It was agonizing. It was tedious. It was utterly predictable. Why indeed.
The End of Suburbia
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I have noted that most people are not particularly fond of the film, some downright hated the film, and the only people who liked it seemed to disagree with the consensus that Reloaded was fucking awful. Sorry, but I can't take the opinion of a Reloaded fan seriously, so I'm sticking to my original plan of waiting till this turkey comes out on video.
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HemlockGrey
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Did anyone else feel the urge to rush into the lobby, scream 'NEO AND TRINITY DIE' at the top of your lungs, and then rush out?
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
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I don't think it would be all that risky, since you would only be attacked by the handful of hardcore geekboy wannabe tough-guys in the lineup who don't already know how it ends. Since they'd probably be 98-pound weaklings wearing leather trenchcoats, army boots, and designer shades in order to look "cool", you could just knock them around. It would probably look something like the Burly Brawl in Reloaded 
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
But Mike, you don't really know anyone until you fight them. Tsk..tsk...I thought you would have known that.Darth Wong wrote:I don't think it would be all that risky, since you would only be attacked by the handful of hardcore geekboy wannabe tough-guys in the lineup who don't already know how it ends. Since they'd probably be 98-pound weaklings wearing leather trenchcoats, army boots, and designer shades in order to look "cool", you could just knock them around. It would probably look something like the Burly Brawl in Reloaded
Wherever you go, there you are.
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HemlockGrey
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Also, the scenes with the Kid are painfully sappy. Mifune (nice little homage there) wants desperately to be both Rambo and Emry, and winds up being neither.
The End of Suburbia
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
"If more cars are inevitable, must there not be roads for them to run on?"
-Robert Moses
"The Wire" is the best show in the history of television. Watch it today.
This is the type of film that has to be seen in the theatres to be appreciated. Can you imagine the Zion defense on a dinky television set? Pathetic. Part of the film's impact comes from visceral overwhelment--films like Matrix need to be seen on the big screen to be viewed properly IMO. Its no coincidence that people enjoy films less when they see them at home, especially films of this nature. Its a good movie, better than Reloaded (which wasnt really that bad) and certainly the most visually striking movie since AOTC and TTT (if not more).
I'll swallow your soul!
I'm glad I saw it at the Imax -- I wasn't expecting anything more than eye-candy and that's what I got, so the bigger screen was more entertaining. I have the spoiler and fanboys for making it less painful. The spoilers so I knew the silly shit was coming, the fanboys because their overwrought pseudo-philosophizing and wanking over symbolism made the Wacky Bros. attempts at same seem tame by comparison. Ain't aversion therapy grand?
The inept tactics of the Machine Army didn't bother me overmuch, given how rife RL history is with such tactics. The Machines' idea of waging war seemed to be to dump a bunch of dumb-ass conscripts (sentinels) into the field in disorganized waves and simply overwhelm the enemy by brute attrition. Shitty tactics, but how many asshole dictators/totalitarian states have done the same. Hell, given the Machines' tactics in previous encounters, I think I'd have been more likely to scream WTF if they did things smartly, ha-ha. Giving Captain Mifune the swirly from hell when they just bowled everyone else in mechs over seemed a bit contrived, though.
Everyone's reactions to Bane seemed to indicate they were all high-functioning retards. Yeah, the idea of an Agent possessing a human is a bit too outre to be easily guessed at, but the simpler idea of a traitor shouldn't be, especially in these post-Cypher days (unless that incident was kept secret to discourage copy-cats). I keep feeling like there was a missing scene during the Neo/Bane confrontation...
Bane: Don't you get it, Mr. Anderson?
Neo: Uh, no.
(CUT TO: Bane drawing stick-man diagrams with crayons of Mr. Smith touching Mr. Bane, then Mr. Bane getting crossed-out and Mr. Smith drawn on top of him)
Bane: See now?
Neo: (puzzled) I still don't get it. You humped him?
Bane: MOTHERFUCK. Hey, you remember how you download skills.
Neo: Oh, yeah. I know kung-fu.
Bane: No shit. Anyway, it's like that, only I went in Bane's brain instead.
Neo: (eyes wide) Whoa! Hey, that means you're, like, that Mr. Smith dude!
Bane: Thank you, Jesus! (grabs Trinity and puts knife back to her throat, scene continues as in theatrical release)
I agree with Hemlock Grey that Ian Bliss did an extraordinary job of capturing Mr. Smith's character.
The final fate of Neo seemed a tad wanting. To answer the screaming fanboys who respond, "A movie doesn't have to answer every question," that's true, but it's not the point here. Leaving unanswered questions for the audience to chew over is fine if done right. In Neo's case the question didn't seem unanswered so much as incomplete. The SW equivalent would have been not having Luke appear again in RotJ after the final dialogue with his father in the hangar bay -- you don't feel like you were given food for thought, you just feel like you missed a course.
To thank the rabid fans for their help, here's some more "brilyent simbolizm" to get those fanboys frothing a bit:
Smith refers to the Yoda-wannabe (Fuck it, could the scene with Neo and the Oracle been more of a rip-off of Luke and Yoda's talk in RotJ?) as "the great and powerful Oracle" and her room is wallpapered in green. See, she's Oz in the Emerald Castle! Wer not in kansas anymor LOL!!1!11!
When teh arkitect and smith accept neo/jesus into there hearts teh EVOL is kiild!!!1!! see, cuz like anderson=son of man like jesus oh and their wuz like a cross and shit!!1 oyeah and neo walks on water to confront smith whoa deep1!
-- Joe Momma
The inept tactics of the Machine Army didn't bother me overmuch, given how rife RL history is with such tactics. The Machines' idea of waging war seemed to be to dump a bunch of dumb-ass conscripts (sentinels) into the field in disorganized waves and simply overwhelm the enemy by brute attrition. Shitty tactics, but how many asshole dictators/totalitarian states have done the same. Hell, given the Machines' tactics in previous encounters, I think I'd have been more likely to scream WTF if they did things smartly, ha-ha. Giving Captain Mifune the swirly from hell when they just bowled everyone else in mechs over seemed a bit contrived, though.
Everyone's reactions to Bane seemed to indicate they were all high-functioning retards. Yeah, the idea of an Agent possessing a human is a bit too outre to be easily guessed at, but the simpler idea of a traitor shouldn't be, especially in these post-Cypher days (unless that incident was kept secret to discourage copy-cats). I keep feeling like there was a missing scene during the Neo/Bane confrontation...
Bane: Don't you get it, Mr. Anderson?
Neo: Uh, no.
(CUT TO: Bane drawing stick-man diagrams with crayons of Mr. Smith touching Mr. Bane, then Mr. Bane getting crossed-out and Mr. Smith drawn on top of him)
Bane: See now?
Neo: (puzzled) I still don't get it. You humped him?
Bane: MOTHERFUCK. Hey, you remember how you download skills.
Neo: Oh, yeah. I know kung-fu.
Bane: No shit. Anyway, it's like that, only I went in Bane's brain instead.
Neo: (eyes wide) Whoa! Hey, that means you're, like, that Mr. Smith dude!
Bane: Thank you, Jesus! (grabs Trinity and puts knife back to her throat, scene continues as in theatrical release)
I agree with Hemlock Grey that Ian Bliss did an extraordinary job of capturing Mr. Smith's character.
The final fate of Neo seemed a tad wanting. To answer the screaming fanboys who respond, "A movie doesn't have to answer every question," that's true, but it's not the point here. Leaving unanswered questions for the audience to chew over is fine if done right. In Neo's case the question didn't seem unanswered so much as incomplete. The SW equivalent would have been not having Luke appear again in RotJ after the final dialogue with his father in the hangar bay -- you don't feel like you were given food for thought, you just feel like you missed a course.
To thank the rabid fans for their help, here's some more "brilyent simbolizm" to get those fanboys frothing a bit:
Smith refers to the Yoda-wannabe (Fuck it, could the scene with Neo and the Oracle been more of a rip-off of Luke and Yoda's talk in RotJ?) as "the great and powerful Oracle" and her room is wallpapered in green. See, she's Oz in the Emerald Castle! Wer not in kansas anymor LOL!!1!11!
When teh arkitect and smith accept neo/jesus into there hearts teh EVOL is kiild!!!1!! see, cuz like anderson=son of man like jesus oh and their wuz like a cross and shit!!1 oyeah and neo walks on water to confront smith whoa deep1!
-- Joe Momma
It's okay to kiss a nun; just don't get into the habit.
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Spyder
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 4465
- Joined: 2002-09-03 03:23am
- Location: Wellington, New Zealand
- Contact:
"This will be the 6th time we have destroyed it and we have become increasingly efficient at it."
The tactics of the sentinals need to be disected more. Seriously there is some comedy gold here!
They breech the docks of Zion, stay in formation while they're being shot at by the mechs. It appears to be the "Running water through a crazy-straw" formation.
They do not spread when they are fired up, they stay in one nice neat grouping.
The stay in formation and proceed to fly around in random directions (but still in neat and tidy formations).
They get shot at some more.
Not only do they remain in formation but the individual machines in that formation swim around in small circles within their place in the formation in what seems like a deliberate attempt to maximize the amount of hot lead they absorb that the mech pilots are only too happy to keep pumping into them.
Probably about 5% of the machines actually bothered engaging the mechs while the others still swam around at random.
I seriously want to know what the hell they did in the other 5 destructions of Zion. Because if this was increasingly efficient...
The tactics of the sentinals need to be disected more. Seriously there is some comedy gold here!
They breech the docks of Zion, stay in formation while they're being shot at by the mechs. It appears to be the "Running water through a crazy-straw" formation.
They do not spread when they are fired up, they stay in one nice neat grouping.
The stay in formation and proceed to fly around in random directions (but still in neat and tidy formations).
They get shot at some more.
Not only do they remain in formation but the individual machines in that formation swim around in small circles within their place in the formation in what seems like a deliberate attempt to maximize the amount of hot lead they absorb that the mech pilots are only too happy to keep pumping into them.
Probably about 5% of the machines actually bothered engaging the mechs while the others still swam around at random.
I seriously want to know what the hell they did in the other 5 destructions of Zion. Because if this was increasingly efficient...
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Darth Wong
- Sith Lord
- Posts: 70028
- Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
- Contact:
Even incompetent totalitarian armies typically do not order 95% of their troops to just stand there and expose themselves to enemy fire while doing nothing in return. If they had simply charged en masse (which would have wiped out the Zionists' meagre defenses in a matter of seconds from what I've heard), then you might be able to compare their tactics to real-life tactics.Joe Momma wrote:The inept tactics of the Machine Army didn't bother me overmuch, given how rife RL history is with such tactics. The Machines' idea of waging war seemed to be to dump a bunch of dumb-ass conscripts (sentinels) into the field in disorganized waves and simply overwhelm the enemy by brute attrition. Shitty tactics, but how many asshole dictators/totalitarian states have done the same.
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Cal Wright
- American Warlord
- Posts: 3995
- Joined: 2002-07-07 03:24am
- Location: Super-Class Star Destroyer 'Blight'
- Contact:
Thank you Wong. Finally someone that does not think the Matrix is the 'all that' movie. God, I get tired of people acting like it's the best movie. By virtue of name or not, remember, Matrix came out in 99, so did Star Wars. Heh. Schmack. The only parts of Reloaded I didn't like was when anyone was talking. LoL. Yup. When it went gung ho action, I was all over it.Darth Wong wrote:Ummm, at the risk of being indelicate, what did you expect? I always thought the original Matrix was overrated but watchable.
However, when I saw Reloaded, I realized that the Wachowski brothers were nothing but pretentious hacks, high on their own self-importance. Never have I seen a movie that tried harder to shove its symbolism in your face. Hint to the Wachowskis: symbolism is supposed to be hidden beneath the surface; you're not supposed to make fucking characters talk to the audience about it.
After seeing that abortion of a movie, nothing the W brothers do now could possibly surprise me.
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
The Dark Guard Fleet
Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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Cal Wright
- American Warlord
- Posts: 3995
- Joined: 2002-07-07 03:24am
- Location: Super-Class Star Destroyer 'Blight'
- Contact:
Heh. I don't really think 'Here they come' as a Star Wars reference. However, trying to start the ship up, and it shuts right back down, now that just smacks of 'Chewie!!! Get me the Hydrospanner!'NecronLord wrote:That's hardly a star wars reference, just dialogue. A star wars reference would be if Morpheus had said to the other captain guy; "your lack of faith disturbs me"zombie84 wrote:did anyone else notice the huge Star Wras reference? I sure did!
The hovercraft is racing back to Zion--suddenly a hundred Sentinels are right on their tails! "Man the turrets!". Everyone gets in those gun pod things and the little computer-aiming screens light up with grids. Morhpheus: "Here they come"
Were you born with out a sense of humor or did you lose it in a tragic whoppy cushion accident? -Stormbringer
"We are well and truly forked." -Mace Windu Shatterpoint
"Either way KJA is now Dune's problem. Why can't he stop tormenting me and start writting fucking Star Trek books." -Lord Pounder
The Dark Guard Fleet
Post 1500 acheived on Thu Jan 23, 2003 at 2:48 am
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Spyder
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 4465
- Joined: 2002-09-03 03:23am
- Location: Wellington, New Zealand
- Contact:
It would be the equivilant of Greek soldiers running their Phalanx sideways across a battlefield trying to catch all the arrows being fired at them.Darth Wong wrote: Even incompetent totalitarian armies typically do not order 95% of their troops to just stand there and expose themselves to enemy fire while doing nothing in return. If they had simply charged en masse (which would have wiped out the Zionists' meagre defenses in a matter of seconds from what I've heard), then you might be able to compare their tactics to real-life tactics.