Clone Wars cartoon - army numbers *Spoilers inside*

[Connor MacLeod]

(Warning, this contains spoilers, or at least I consider it to do so.)

I think the most interesting thing in this first chapter is that Obi-Wan had his own army ready for the assault on Muunilist (implying that all other Jedi do as well. This isn't unreasonable, as I believe they have been cited to be the "Generals" in this war.) At the end, when we see Anakin and Obi-Wan depart, we get a glimpse of what appear to be Acclamator assault-ships in the background, approximately 20 to 30 in my estimate.

This suggests that, given at least 20-30 Acclamators, Obi-Wan literally had hundreds of thousands of troops (indeed, quite probably closer to over half a million troops, disregarding support personnel and ground armor) at his disposal, as well as thousands of walkers, gunships, and ground artillery (maybe another several tens of thousands of troops at least).

Now, given that there are thousands of Jedi in the galaxy, this may well suggest there are billions of clone troopers as the Republic's disposal (at least among the Jedi.) There are some problems with this, as I cannot be 100% certain about the ships in the distance (they may be clone fighters, but Anakin's Jedi Starfighter does not appaer to overtake any of them and his fighter disappears rapidly.) or they may be otehr warships, but it can be considered unlikely that Obi-Wan alone commands over half the Clone army himself.

[CDiehl]

Could the armies serving the Republic at this point be made up of mostly non-cloned personnel? The Senate gave Palpatine the authority to raise an army to fight the Separatists, and it's easier to train people who are already adults than to clone them from scratch. Clones might still be used, but as elite forces, since they are probably more expensive for the Republic to produce per person than adults raised by their parents who just need military training and supplies. The cloning process used here doesn't necessarily have to be used to squeeze out people like sausages, but it can be used to selectively produce people with certain traits which can be developed, instead of taking potluck from nature. Even if the Republic hired every cloning facility on Kamino, and they all accelerated their process by a factor of ten, I really doubt they could make a large enough army to prosecute the war and hold their remaining territory, since the Republic would have to do both.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Now, given that there are thousands of Jedi in the galaxy, this may well suggest there are billions of clone troopers as the Republic's disposal (at least among the Jedi.) There are some problems with this, as I cannot be 100% certain about the ships in the distance (they may be clone fighters, but Anakin's Jedi Starfighter does not appaer to overtake any of them and his fighter disappears rapidly.) or they may be otehr warships, but it can be considered unlikely that Obi-Wan alone commands over half the Clone army himself.

Perhaps, but Shatterpoint and other sources seem quite explicit with a bare 1,200,000 clone trooper figure (Shatterpoint actually advances this as part of the plot, that the common man will have to fight this war). Furthermore, there's no compelling evidence that each or even a majority of Jedi has a similar fleet (each may be assigned a force on an ad hoc basis, and many Jedi are on small-scale missions or aiding the Order's objectives personally). Furthermore, with out explicit information to the contrary, some Acclamator-class military transports may now be carrying Republican volunteers.

[Isolder74]

or it is proof that 200,000 units does not = 200,000 troopers but means 200,000 units(devisions, ect) instead and this is just EU stupidity. There are definatally more than 200,000 clonetrooper running around in the Battle of Gnosis(or at least it looks like it)

[Illuminatus Primus]

or it is proof that 200,000 units does not = 200,000 troopers but means 200,000 units(devisions, ect) instead and this is just EU stupidity. There are definatally more than 200,000 clonetrooper running around in the Battle of Gnosis(or at least it looks like it)

There was 192,000 clone troopers on Geonosis.

Canon.

[Isolder74]

or it is proof that 200,000 units does not = 200,000 troopers but means 200,000 units(devisions, ect) instead and this is just EU stupidity. There are definatally more than 200,000 clonetrooper running around in the Battle of Gnosis(or at least it looks like it)

There was 192,000 clone troopers on Geonosis.

Canon.

my mistake
but we do see an army much bigger than 1,200,000 troopers could possibly man, either there are more clonetroopers or they are drawing on another source for soilders and they didn't have time to have properly train new recruits

[Trytostaydead]

For a galactic army, that's kind of small :-\

I would've expected a galaxy spanning republic to be able to recruit that many on a single day.

[Sea Skimmer]

For a galactic army, that's kind of small :-\

I would've expected a galaxy spanning republic to be able to recruit that many on a single day.

Indeed, and we've already had about ten threads on the issue..

[Chardok]

Just like to interject that I just watched the cartoon, and found it to be very well animated. Tartakovsky is to be commended. Especially funny did I find the look given by Obi-Wan to Yoda. was like:

Obi: Bitch.

Yoda: Bring it.

[Howedar]

That kicked ass.

[Connor MacLeod]

Perhaps, but Shatterpoint and other sources seem quite explicit with a bare 1,200,000 clone trooper figure (Shatterpoint actually advances this as part of the plot, that the common man will have to fight this war).

Its canon. The figure was established way back when the movie came out, in the AOTC novelization. I believe I've mentioned this on more than one occasion (and thus, have been eminently aware of the fact.)

Furthermore, there's no compelling evidence that each or even a majority of Jedi has a similar fleet (each may be assigned a force on an ad hoc basis, and many Jedi are on small-scale missions or aiding the Order's objectives personally). Furthermore, with out explicit information to the contrary, some Acclamator-class military transports may now be carrying Republican volunteers.

Hence why its qualified as a possibility, you might have noticed. I even admitted there were potential problems (aside from what you mentioned, its also possible the ships in the distance may not neccesarily be Acclamators, for one. Its also an assumption they're all apart of the same fleet, as well.)

On the other hand, I haven't been aware of anything that suggests just where events in the catoon fall in the timeline yet, so I can't say whether it takes place before or after Shatterpoint. Its possible they have produced more clone troopers by now, or rushed out others that were already being completed (I think the ITW book implied there were "millions" more in reserve in other facilities on Kamino.)

As it is, we won't know if what I am postulating is correct or not until next week (or possibly longer, depending on how the timeframe of events proceed.) I could be wrong on any number of counts (If anything, its probable they don't have nearly as many Acclamators as I assumed, and probably have fewer troops than that. I doubt we'll see much evidence of "non clone" forces.)

[Darth Garden Gnome]

According to the Clone Wars timeline in Star Wars Insider I posted a while back, the Battle of Muunilist (ie-Clone Wars Animated Shorts) takes place 3 months after Geonosis, while the Haruun Kal Crisis (ie-Shatterpoint) takes place six months after Geonosis.

[Connor MacLeod]

Okay, maybe not. Ah well. Just have to see how things turn out in the following weeks.

[Illuminatus Primus]

My point with Shatterpoint is it is quite explicit with 1,200,000 troopers, as opposed to the "units" semantics from the film canon that people were trying to squeeze more realistic numbers through.

[Connor MacLeod]

My point with Shatterpoint is it is quite explicit with 1,200,000 troopers, as opposed to the "units" semantics from the film canon that people were trying to squeeze more realistic numbers through.

"A million clone warriors?" Mace Windu asked in disbelief.

[Obi-wan speaking]"Yes Master." They say Master Sifo-Dyas placed the order for the clone army almost ten years ago."

[Illuminatus Primus]

Point taken, however, I remember that some argued that it was only Obi-Wan's assumption of 1.2 million units = 1.2 million troopers.

[His Divine Shadow]

but we do see an army much bigger than 1,200,000 troopers could possibly man, either there are more clonetroopers or they are drawing on another source for soilders and they didn't have time to have properly train new recruits

They are cloning more, they might also be filling up the ranks with press-ganged convict hive-trash...
Sorry, wrong universe

[Chris OFarrell]

Question. Even if there are only 1.2 million clone troopers (which isn't surprising, they probably are the Republics shock troops, used for the importiant battles and such), why must the numbers of Accys be limited? Or the weapons the clones use?

[His Divine Shadow]

Question. Even if there are only 1.2 million clone troopers (which isn't surprising, they probably are the Republics shock troops, used for the importiant battles and such

Thats not really enough even for elite shock troops I would say, and there are millions more clone-troopers on the way.
========================
Pg. 21: The first batch of clone divisions are ready for deployment; millions more are undergoing intensive performance evaluations.
========================
-Inside The Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of The Clones

========================
Pg. 21: When Obi-Wan arrives, Tipoca is already primed to deliver 200,000 clone troops, while facilities across the planet are equipped to produce millions more.
========================
-Inside The Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of The Clones

[Stormbringer]

Question. Even if there are only 1.2 million clone troopers (which isn't surprising, they probably are the Republics shock troops, used for the importiant battles and such

Thats not really enough even for elite shock troops I would say, and there are millions more clone-troopers on the way.
========================
Pg. 21: The first batch of clone divisions are ready for deployment; millions more are undergoing intensive performance evaluations.
========================
-Inside The Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of The Clones

========================
Pg. 21: When Obi-Wan arrives, Tipoca is already primed to deliver 200,000 clone troops, while facilities across the planet are equipped to produce millions more.
========================
-Inside The Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of The Clones

Both of which suggest that it's not immediate product (or even near future) but rather something that'll happen down the line. The former are probably still the kiddies we see rather than anything resembling an useful soldier. The latter merely suggests that it's production capacity, unused capability for that matter, rather than immediate production.

[His Divine Shadow]

The first suggests that the clones are ready and being evaluated, they are testing what their troops have learned, I really doubt they are kiddies, or that new troopers are as far away as you would imagine, this would also make more sense when coupled with the clone-wars shorts where Macleod registered 500k troopers under Obi-Wans command.

[Super-Gagme]

Question. Even if there are only 1.2 million clone troopers (which isn't surprising, they probably are the Republics shock troops, used for the importiant battles and such

Thats not really enough even for elite shock troops I would say, and there are millions more clone-troopers on the way.
========================
Pg. 21: The first batch of clone divisions are ready for deployment; millions more are undergoing intensive performance evaluations.
========================
-Inside The Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of The Clones

========================
Pg. 21: When Obi-Wan arrives, Tipoca is already primed to deliver 200,000 clone troops, while facilities across the planet are equipped to produce millions more.
========================
-Inside The Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of The Clones

Divisions? Millions more? Is that saying Millions of divisions? Isn't a division on average of about 15,000 men? Could that suggest 15,000,000,000 clone troops? Of course that is just 1 million divisions, it does say MillionS so that suggests atleast 30,000,000,000 clones! 30 bil clones isn't too bad Of course this is just my bad guess work

[Lord of the Farce]

Divisions? Millions more? Is that saying Millions of divisions? Isn't a division on average of about 15,000 men? Could that suggest 15,000,000,000 clone troops? Of course that is just 1 million divisions, it does say MillionS so that suggests atleast 30,000,000,000 clones! 30 bil clones isn't too bad Of course this is just my bad guess work

By itself, the first quote can be interpreted that way, but the second slams the door on it.

[His Divine Shadow]

I dunno about that.

[Super-Gagme]

Divisions? Millions more? Is that saying Millions of divisions? Isn't a division on average of about 15,000 men? Could that suggest 15,000,000,000 clone troops? Of course that is just 1 million divisions, it does say MillionS so that suggests atleast 30,000,000,000 clones! 30 bil clones isn't too bad Of course this is just my bad guess work

By itself, the first quote can be interpreted that way, but the second slams the door on it.

Well it says the first batch of clone divisions are ready. And the next says 200,000 are ready. That can easily be seen as theres about 13-14 Divisions already ready. I think it works