Matrix Box Ofice down 45% from Reloaded

Drooling Iguana · Post by **Drooling Iguana** » 2003-11-11 09:21pm

CmdrWilkens wrote:
Drooling Iguana wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I can't believe anyone would even think of comparing the Matrix films to the LOTR films. They're just not in the same league, regardless of what the box office says.
I dunno, they both feature cardboard characters and pointless battle scenes. They both features a decent first part and a crappy second part (we'll know how their third parts compare in a couple of months.) The acting's a bit better in LOTR, though, but The Matrix only requires you to sit through about two hours per movie.
I think the critical difference is that, for all the character assasination Peter Jackson has invested in, the LOTR series is something you can invest in and get payoff for. The themes and ideas that run through the movies recieve continual attention and payoff. On the converse you have Revolutions vice Reloaded where virtually NONE fo the speaking points seemed to get resolved in anything resembling a satisfactory way. Even beyond this the visuals of the matrix (stunning as they might be) seemed like a CGI rehash of some of the best movie sequences of all time (think Alien when they look for the Logos or RotJ when the ship flies through the tunnel). Again conversely the LOTR visuals draw you into Middle-Earth in a way that I would never have thought possible. For all that poeple can rightly criticize Jackson's story approach (though he's getting the gist close to correct) he brings them into the world and makes them believe in it, the W brothers never do this. I just keep finding myself unable to beleive in the world of The Matrix wheras I find myself almost living in Middle-Earth. They are small differences but they are inmportant to telling a good story.

I wasn't criticising Jackson. Considering what he had to work with, he did a pretty good job. Still, as they say, you can't make a silk purse out of a pig's ear, although he came close in that first movie.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:05pm

zombie84 wrote:well so far its shattered records, taking in well over $ 200 million worldwide in just 5 days, the fastest film to do so.

Zombie: Your referring to Reloaded, the others are correct about the earning for Revolutions. Still the Matrix franchise has brought in over 1 billion in the last year, due to the release of both movies, the animatrix, and enter the matrix. Reloaded is the second highest grossing movie of all time for the first week, just a few million behind Spiderman.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-11 11:13pm

An enormous worldwide opening is the sort of thing which screams "the studio execs saw the print and were terrified of a monstrous second-week drop-off, so they tried to get the biggest possible opening". The same thing happened with Godzilla (the shitty Matthew Broderick one); after test audiences barfed at the shitty movie, the Sony execs decided to ramp up the number of screens so they could get as much money as possible on the first week, before bad word of mouth got around.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:20pm

Darth Wong wrote:An enormous worldwide opening is the sort of thing which screams "the studio execs saw the print and were terrified of a monstrous second-week drop-off, so they tried to get the biggest possible opening". The same thing happened with Godzilla (the shitty Matthew Broderick one); after test audiences barfed at the shitty movie, the Sony execs decided to ramp up the number of screens so they could get as much money as possible on the first week, before bad word of mouth got around.

I still can't see why people don't like this movie. I mean I can understand not loving it, but it's a helluva lot better than the recent Star Wars movies, and certainly more original than LOTR.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-11 11:25pm

David wrote:I still can't see why people don't like this movie. I mean I can understand not loving it, but it's a helluva lot better than the recent Star Wars movies, and certainly more original than LOTR.

Everyone's entitled to his opinion, even if yours happens to be completely wrong

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-11-11 11:25pm

Original? You've bought into fanboy propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. Not even the Wachowskis claim that their movies are original.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-11 11:26pm

David wrote:
zombie84 wrote:well so far its shattered records, taking in well over $ 200 million worldwide in just 5 days, the fastest film to do so.

Zombie: Your referring to Reloaded, the others are correct about the earning for Revolutions. Still the Matrix franchise has brought in over 1 billion in the last year, due to the release of both movies, the animatrix, and enter the matrix. Reloaded is the second highest grossing movie of all time for the first week, just a few million behind Spiderman.

no, i'm not talking about domestic gross--which it earned $50-something million i believe. Revolutions was released simultaneous in a "zero hour" marketing ploy so that the film premiered at the exact same minute in every country, regardless of time zones. Its 5 day earnings are for the global gross, which is something like $204 million. Its 5 day domestic earnings are something like $85 million IIRC.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-11-11 11:33pm

I will admit that the use of philisophobabble to be found in Reloaded is somewhat original. I don't recall other films ever going so deep into extremely juvenile philosophy.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-11 11:37pm

Durran Korr wrote:Original? You've bought into fanboy propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. Not even the Wachowskis claim that their movies are original.

It's not original when you've seen it done better at least ten times previously.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:41pm

Darth Wong wrote: Everyone's entitled to his opinion, even if yours happens to be completely wrong

Oh don't make me get medevil on the but-tocks

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:43pm

Durran Korr wrote:Original? You've bought into fanboy propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. Not even the Wachowskis claim that their movies are original.

Show me another popular movie and/or book that has the same theme.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:45pm

zombie84 wrote:
David wrote:
zombie84 wrote:well so far its shattered records, taking in well over $ 200 million worldwide in just 5 days, the fastest film to do so.

Zombie: Your referring to Reloaded, the others are correct about the earning for Revolutions. Still the Matrix franchise has brought in over 1 billion in the last year, due to the release of both movies, the animatrix, and enter the matrix. Reloaded is the second highest grossing movie of all time for the first week, just a few million behind Spiderman.
no, i'm not talking about domestic gross--which it earned $50-something million i believe. Revolutions was released simultaneous in a "zero hour" marketing ploy so that the film premiered at the exact same minute in every country, regardless of time zones. Its 5 day earnings are for the global gross, which is something like $204 million. Its 5 day domestic earnings are something like $85 million IIRC.

ok sorry zombie you were right.
linky

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-11 11:45pm

Popular =/ Good.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:48pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Popular =/ Good.

You know I was thinking the same thing when I made the mistake of watching Evangelion.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-11 11:49pm

Bah, cram it up your ass 'till your eyes bleed.

EDIT: Eva was obviously good enough for the Wachowski's to steal the ending...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-11 11:49pm

David wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Original? You've bought into fanboy propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. Not even the Wachowskis claim that their movies are original.
Show me another popular movie and/or book that has the same theme.

"Total Recall" handled a very similar theme about reality, choice, and identity without all of the pedantic, pretentious pseudo-philosophical bullshit, and every Hong Kong action film existence overuses the slow-mo just like "The Matrix" did. You need to get out more.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-11 11:51pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Bah, cram it up your ass 'till your eyes bleed.

Oh a bit touchy eh? Could it be because you touch yourself at night while thinking of a certain redhead?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-11 11:52pm

HK films also have more imaginative wirework.

Jesus, even Drunken Wu Tang had more inventive wirework.

David: Now don't you be accusing me of being a pervert...

Besides, Maya's my favourite female character.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-11-11 11:57pm

David wrote:
Durran Korr wrote:Original? You've bought into fanboy propaganda, hook, line, and sinker. Not even the Wachowskis claim that their movies are original.

Show me another popular movie and/or book that has the same theme.

William Gibson's work, the Terminator films (noteworthy because they deal with concepts of free will, fate, and choice, but unlike the Matrix they don't insult the audience), anime and manga...

It didn't rip off any one book/movie/whatever in particular; rather, it was an unoriginal assortment of other people's ideas. It wasn't just the story that was unoriginal, either.

The visual style? Lifted from comic books, and anime, specifically Ghost in the Shell; the opening sequence with the scrolling green numbers represents one of the most blatant ripoffs in the history of film.

The fight sequences? John Woo has been using slow motion to great effect for years; wire fu is nothing new, has been part of Hong Kong action cinema for years; the fights again borrow from Ghost in the Shell considerably.

Bullet time? Had already been used in a car commercial, something that seems to be not often mentioned.

Mythical elements in the plotline? See Star Wars.

The Matrix was a good movie, but an entirely derivative one. Of course, this normally wouldn't be a problem; the Wachowskis have been fairly candid about the fact that they're paying homage to their influences rather than creating truly original cinema, but there seems to be a rather large contingent of fanboys (and no, I'm not including you) who consider the movies the most original works in the history of filmmaking.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-12 12:03am

yeah but none of those have ever been seen inside the same film. Every work of fiction borrows from previous works. Hell, Star Wars is just a remake of Hidden Fortress--its the combined influences and new presentation that makes it unique. In that respect, while all the individual elements that make up the Matrix films have been seen before in some form of media, the combined influence of them on the film creates a wholy unique tale.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 12:09am

zombie84 wrote:yeah but none of those have ever been seen inside the same film. Every work of fiction borrows from previous works. Hell, Star Wars is just a remake of Hidden Fortress--its the combined influences and new presentation that makes it unique. In that respect, while all the individual elements that make up the Matrix films have been seen before in some form of media, the combined influence of them on the film creates a wholy unique tale.

Small problem with your argument: Star Wars is not touted as some kind of fantastically original work. In fact, nearly every review of the original Star Wars, whether good or bad, noted that it drew very heavily from older sources such as Flash Gordon, most westerns, and samurai stories for its inspiration. The Matrix, on the other hand, is lauded as "groundbreakingly original", yadda yadda yadda.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-11-12 12:09am

zombie84 wrote:yeah but none of those have ever been seen inside the same film. Every work of fiction borrows from previous works. Hell, Star Wars is just a remake of Hidden Fortress--its the combined influences and new presentation that makes it unique. In that respect, while all the individual elements that make up the Matrix films have been seen before in some form of media, the combined influence of them on the film creates a wholy unique tale.

Star Wars had originality, despite being influenced by other films. The Matrix has none. The fact that it is other people's ideas combined doesn't change the fact that they are other people's ideas.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 12:11am

Besides, "Star Wars" was followed up by "The Empire Strikes Back", while "The Matrix" was followed up by the execrable "The Matrix Reloaded". Need I say more?

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-12 12:35am

Durran Korr wrote: Star Wars had originality, despite being influenced by other films. The Matrix has none. The fact that it is other people's ideas combined doesn't change the fact that they are other people's ideas.

The Matrix is as original as Star Wars.

ANH is a remake, not just an "inspired-by" story, but a remake of Akira Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. Nearly every character and sequence in the rest of the trilogy (and prequels) is derived from other Kurosawa films, namely The Seven Samurai but also Dursu Uzala, Ran and Yojimbo. The premise and style of the film is of course a direct port of the Flash Gordon serials of the 1930's, and the film also takes heavy reference from the Foundation series as well as drawing on other mythological tales (as well as Tao and Buddhhist religions). Does this make the film a shameless and unoriginal ripoff? Of course not! Its the new presentation that makes Star Wars unqiue. And just as every element of Star Wars was seen earlier in Kurosawa and Flash Gordon, every element of Matrix was seen in the Cyberpunk and Anime genres.

Every film and work of fiction draws and borrows from pre-existing sources. No film or story is unique. Lucas copied Kurosawa. Kurosawa adapted from ancient Japanese literature. That literature copied from history. To think that works like Lord of the Rings and Star Wars are completly original in their elements and divily insppired by some muse is a gross misunderstanding of the creative process. By your logic Shakespear was a complete hack since none of his most famous--and best--tales were unique. Each of them were taken from previous myths and legends. What made Shakespear unique was his presentation--he combined them with other influences, gave the strories new spins and directions and created something wonderfully unique, depsite being directly ported from pre-existing sources.

The Matrix was a unqiue film. Whether or not you think its sequels are as good is besides the point. All of its elements were seen before, but they were re-combined in a unque and challenging factor, such that the end result was a new and original tale.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 12:42am

zombie84 wrote:The Matrix was a unqiue film.

So was "Bad News Bears 3". The point is that fanwank claims of "groundbreaking originality" are completely false.