Segregation in the schoolyard

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 10:34pm

At my kids' elementary school, I have noticed an interesting pattern of self-segregation. No, it's not racial. No, it's not religious (7 years of age is a bit early for kids to get in arguments over religion). It has to do with parenting, and political correctness.

You see, I have observed two groups of boys in the playground, or so I've observed: the boys whose mothers let them play with guns, and the boys whose mothers won't let them play with guns. The segregation is one-way: the "no-guns" kids have been sternly instructed not to play with the others. Over time, I have observed that their preferred games diverge as well; the kids who are allowed to play with guns tend to do a lot of play-fighting, cops 'n robbers, etc, while the others don't. And certain kids who were friends at one time are drifting apart because the mother of child A refuses to let him go visit child B's house since child B has toy guns.

I'm not sure if I'm trying to make a point here, but I just thought I'd share this observation.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-11-12 10:36pm

Not even waterguns? Man, I can't imagine a childhood without toy guns, water guns in particular.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-12 10:43pm

evil commie bastards! I remember when you could get toy guns at
Toys' R Us when I was a kid!

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-11-12 10:49pm

What will be the next reason (Don`t go to his house he eats meat)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-12 11:03pm

This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-12 11:05pm

Many parents are under the idea that letting their kids play with guns equates to telling their kids that violence solves problems. I played with guns all the time when I was a kid. Hell, I used up a shitload of electrical tape making my own out of miscellaneous household items, once built Robocop's gun out of legos, and played violent videogames. My cousin even built this awesome pump-action shotgun out of legos, and I once made a pistol that had an actual clip. It was indescribably cool.

Er ... violence isn't the answer. Mmkay?

Dark Hellion · Post by **Dark Hellion** » 2003-11-12 11:07pm

Wow, now i wanna come play at your house. Thats some cool shit you got.

As for the playing with guns is bad idea, I have no clue where it comes from. Kids have been playing cops and robbers (or one of the many different incarnations) for close to what, a century or more. Now, maybe its just me, but I don't think it takes a century for a game to have an effect on violence.
Of course, I was raised on plastic M-16s, thundercats, and GI joes, who had enough missles to take out O'hare.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-11-12 11:09pm

This brings back memories.

I remember my mom not liking something to do with toy guns. I think she just had a rule against pointing them at adults and threatening to shoot.

The thing is, if my mom didn't like me having toy guns I sure had a lot of them. The requisit cowboy cap guns and my all time favorite and long lasting toy M-1 Garande. It's got to be nearly 30 years old and I still have it at my parent's house.

Most of my other toy guns are at my grandparent's house. A M-16 that made the full auto sound (this is important because the other M-16s that came out then were modled after the show SWAT and they only had the single fire sound). Even better is a dart gun that looks almost exactly like a M1911 .45. It's black and unless you look very closely or have it loaded with a dart it looks pretty real.

There are a bunch more I can think of, one of my favorite being the blooper gun that shoots ping-pong balls, but while I remember playing "Cowboys & Indians" and "War" quite a lot as a kid I don't remember doing that much at all while at school. I think even a finger as a gun thing was frowned upon at school so we always played sports or tag or something that had to do with the playground equipment provided.

To put in context when I was a kid no kids had started taking guns to school with the intention of using them.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-12 11:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Toys.jpg

Got the boys matching M-16's, eh?

I notice that many of those toys aren't the multi-colored pieces of crap that are on the shelves over here. Is Canada not as strict with rules on real-looking toy guns? I remember when I got my toy Desert Eagle ... man what a great day.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-11-12 11:14pm

I'm awaiting the day this crap comes to Australia.

Can you seriously not get guns at Toy's R Us? We have a whole gun section last time I was there.

When I was in Primary school 5-10 years ago, we all played cops and robbers or war(which was great becasue of my school's hilled parts we had trenches). The one or two kids who weren't allowed to play like that basically had to sit in the library, becasue it was either that or sports, which was played rough.

Also, Mike, your kids have the coolest toys, between the black lightsabre and the RPG launcher, you're one of the coolest parents I've seen.
*Sigh* The houses with two boys always have the coolest stuff.

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-11-12 11:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Toys.jpg

The other reason could be that your kids have a lot of cool stuff and the parents of the other kids don't want to hear all the whining from their kids about how cool the toys the Wong boys have are.

"But Moooooooooom, the Wongs have a missile launcher why can't I get one?"

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-12 11:16pm

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

*hands mike honorary VRWC membership*

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-12 11:18pm

Course, you might want to get some old fashioned wood/steel replica
guns, as it looks like most of that is plastic chintzy shit, and would fall
apart under hard use

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2003-11-12 11:20pm

I think you can still find toy guns at Toys R Us and other toy stores in the US. Some of them are going to be pretty fake looking but I think a lot of them will be like the ones in Mike's picture where they have the orange cap on the end of the barrel.

It would be funny if the local Toys R Us didn't sell guns because they sell a boatload of other military related stuff. It's nearly a whole wall of military related action figures along with the tanks, planes etc... that they fit into.

I could understand them not selling guns if they were concerned about accidental shootings from cops or other people mistaking the toys for real but phylisophically playing with army men isn't that much different than playing with toy guns.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-12 11:27pm

MKSheppard wrote:Course, you might want to get some old fashioned wood/steel replica
guns, as it looks like most of that is plastic chintzy shit, and would fall
apart under hard use

That's what I had, so did man of my friends. Though unlike my friends my attic was also packed with the real thing. But I don't think anyone's parents ever even had a problem with that (not that all of them knew) nor with my arsenal of toy guns.

What really annoyed me, though with some good reason, was when they started making many toy guns and squirt guns that looked realistic, bright orange and yellow. You simply can't have fun with something that looks so stupid, luckily spray paint fixed that.

This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

So when are you planning the first family excursion to the firing range?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-12 11:27pm

Tsyroc wrote:I think you can still find toy guns at Toys R Us

Nope. Only if they're Star Wars blasters, or laser guns, not realistic looking
guns.

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-11-12 11:44pm

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Toys.jpg

Dammit, I wish I had toys like that. And I don't mean at just age 7.

I know I already own a rifle, but I always wish I had cool toy guns as a kid. Oh well.

Post by **Coyote** » 2003-11-12 11:45pm

*snif* That's beautiful, Mike. (swoons)

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-11-13 12:02am

Sea Skimmer wrote:What really annoyed me, though with some good reason, was when they started making many toy guns and squirt guns that looked realistic, bright orange and yellow. You simply can't have fun with something that looks so stupid, luckily spray paint fixed that.

I was in my early teens when the Super Soakers first came out. My friends and I all got SS30s, 50s and 100s (I had both a 30 and a 100 - sidearm and rifle) and had super soaker wars in one guy's pasture (yes, pasture - several families in our neighborhood owned horses for a number of years).

I tell you, there's nothing to annoy your mom like coming in well after midnight, soaked through and caked with mud...

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2003-11-13 12:10am

*begs mike to be adopted!* I have never before seen a toy RPG..I can now die happy

Those are so cool. Unfortunately when I was a kid the stores went on a kick of not stocking toy weaponry, but its amazing what you can do with a bit of wood, some piping and imagination

Now...I have to suffer as an adult and witness some of the coolest weapons being sold as toys..I spose I could claim Im buying them for my nephew, but that would only hold out so long.

I remember my parents taking me to a child psychologist, because they were afraid I'd turn into a killer, because I played with toy guns and tanks and stuff...possibly the most humiliating event in my childhood..thanks mum

Im really going to go on a killing spree with my fluroescent yellow m16...yeah..right.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-11-13 12:13am

The segregation mentioned here is planted by overprotective parents; it is forbidden to play after school, hang out with older kids, etc. But who can really blame a parent for trying to steer their child away from what they think, even if wrongly, is a bad influence? I find those parents who don't give a shit far worse; where I came from, kids who grew up without caring parents now have shitty lives, full of regret and dreams of what "could have been".

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2003-11-13 12:13am

Darth Wong wrote:This may be the reason why some kids are not encouraged to come play at our place:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/BoardPics/Toys.jpg

They make toy RPGs these days?

pellaeons_scion · Post by **pellaeons_scion** » 2003-11-13 12:24am

he segregation mentioned here is planted by overprotective parents; it is forbidden to play after school, hang out with older kids, etc. But who can really blame a parent for trying to steer their child away from what they think, even if wrongly, is a bad influence? I find those parents who don't give a shit far worse; where I came from, kids who grew up without caring parents now have shitty lives, full of regret and dreams of what "could have been".

But overprotection is a curse in itself. Simply put the best way to make something appealing and wanted is for you to ban/forbid it. Im all for protecting children against some more adult forms of entertainment, but this kind of thing is inane. I would think that for centuries kids have played war in some variant or another, or cowboys and indians or whatever. What harm did it really do to them?

TrailerParkJawa · Post by **TrailerParkJawa** » 2003-11-13 12:44am

I remember running to the gun aisle at Toy's R Us was often the first place I ran. They've been completely without guns for at least 10 years now.
You dont see too many kids playing with guns here. I think it has had zero impact on wether or not kids are violent, all its done is reduce accidental shootings of kids by cops.

BoredShirtless · Post by **BoredShirtless** » 2003-11-13 12:48am

pellaeons_scion wrote: But overprotection is a curse in itself. Simply put the best way to make something appealing and wanted is for you to ban/forbid it.

That depends on what you're banning, what other kids think about it, and how you go about banning it.

Im all for protecting children against some more adult forms of entertainment, but this kind of thing is inane. I would think that for centuries kids have played war in some variant or another, or cowboys and indians or whatever. What harm did it really do to them?

None. My point was the segregation DW observed isn't just due to toy guns, but the aggregation of many things brought on by smothering parents.