Are most people idiots?

[Darth Wong]

Don't confuse acquired skills with intelligence and the ability for rational thought. It is entirely possible for someone to pick up a skill without being particularly intelligent (it will just take him longer than it would for a smarter person). Similarly, it is entirely possible for someone to be very familiar with complex concepts but lack the ability to think critically and rationally (ie- he was simply very good at memorizing and applying what he was told in school).

It's true that all of us can do stupid things at one time or another. However, it does not follow that there is no such thing as a genuinely stupid person, or that everyone has intelligence. Some people do or say stupid things ALL the time, and not because of happenstance or anomaly but because of sheer, godawful, mind-numbing innate stupidity. Tragic, but it happens. Intelligence, like any other biological trait, has a range, and some people are at the bottom of it.

Exhibit A: Priesto. Tell me, can you look at that guy's posts and still refuse to believe in the existence of truly stupid people?

[Master of Ossus]

I just love those commercials for the tutoring programs that basically say, "You're student isn't stupid, he just learns more slowly and less effectively than many other children his age." There are stupid people in this world. It is a sad fact of life, but people are not equal in all manners. A stupid person is one who distinguishes himself through his lack of intellectual ability. There are many of those.

[kheegster]

I am paraphrasing here from Shakespeare I think, that the truest fool is one who does not think he is a fool.

[Darth Wong]

I am paraphrasing here from Shakespeare I think, that the truest fool is one who does not think he is a fool.

Shakespeare was a fool.

[Master of Ossus]

I am paraphrasing here from Shakespeare I think, that the truest fool is one who does not think he is a fool.

That would be DarkStar. I agree that he is, indeed, the truest fool.

[HemlockGrey]

Shakespeare was a fool

I like Shakespeare!

[Howedar]

A person is as likely intelligent as not. People are dumb and panicky. Yes, I ripped that from MIB, but I tend to agree.

[kheegster]

I am paraphrasing here from Shakespeare I think, that the truest fool is one who does not think he is a fool.

Shakespeare was a fool.

Whether Shakespeare was a fool or not, this maxim seems to sum up my experiences with idiots.

KG

[paladin]

Yes.

[Larz]

As wong said, intelligence should not be based on inherited talents or physical attributes but on the ability of the mind and the conscience that uses it. People are idiots only because they choose to ignore the realities of the world or to broaden their horizens past the limitations they were taught with thier socialization. A child is an idiot until it learns to think for itself and ration things out rather than accepting the spoon feed knowledge that they are given. Logic, rationalization, and self awarness as well as a detachment from worldly things makes the difference between intelligence and idiocy. Inate knowledge and spoon feed knowledge is exactly that, knowledge, not intelligence. Intelligence rises from the ability to use that knowledge, expand it, and support, enforce, or discard and start anew from that knowledge... IMO of course.

[XPViking]

Larz,

Children are self-aware. They are able to rationalize the world around them, although it may seem strange to adults. See Jean Paiget. It's ridiculous to say that children are idiots because they simply are not at the same level of development as adults.

XPViking

[Uther]

I am paraphrasing here from Shakespeare I think, that the truest fool is one who does not think he is a fool.

Shakespeare was a fool.

Unlikely, given that he put into words so many thoughts/expressions that no one had managed to articulate previously.

Unless you're claiming he didn't write his plays, but that's neither here nor there.

In my experience, there are very very few genuinely stupid people. What we usually see as 'stupid' is a combination of a lack of logical thinking and an emphasis, if you will, on emotion and feeling.

[Tsyroc]

Every time I see this topic I just want to say, YES!

Now I feel better.

[EmperorMing]

*Most* people are not idiots, they just have not been taught to think.

<sarcasm>
Like I have...
<sarcasm>

[Larz]

Larz,

Children are self-aware. They are able to rationalize the world around them, although it may seem strange to adults. See Jean Paiget. It's ridiculous to say that children are idiots because they simply are not at the same level of development as adults.

XPViking

Children are not self-aware to the point to realize their full potential (or lack there or) or to understand the hardships of life. Their are exceptions, the poor individual who is old beyond their years, but most children see the world as a playground, not a harsh place of endless work, hatred, or megger etched out existances. Self-aware of their enviroment and the role they must serve in it, self aware of potentials and the reasons for everything, its a question not of weather a child knows that the person in the mirror is it, but that it searches for the full understanding of self. Gotta go to class so I don't know nor care if this made a lot of sense.

[Australopithicus]

I believe that the PC term for people like me is 'intellectually challenged.'

And how

[Icuthere]

On behalf of the idiots of the World, id like to say
WOOOHOOOGLADGOOOGLEWHEEEWOOPWOOPWOOPWHEEWHEEDOOMDOOM
SHADABUYSHADABUYWHOOOOOOOOWHEEEEEHAOOGAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
WOOOHOOOGLADGOOOGLEWHEEEWOOPWOOPWOOPWHEEWHEEDOOMDOOM
SHADABUYSHADABUYWHOOOOOOOOWHEEEEEHAOOGAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Theres My 2 cents.




P.S. That may have just been the caffine talking..

[haas mark]

Being a former vilolin player and current viola player (do I not have an extremely wide variety of interests???), I'll have to disagree...Suzuki (after Book 3 or 4 or so) does actually start using music on staves, with the clefs and notes and barlines and time and key signatures, blahblahblah. Except I prefer not to use Sizuki. I learn better than those who do--I teach myself.

But everyone praises these children who are just "so great". Not only does it put pressure on the children, but it makes us who actually know how to read music and don't play by rote feel stupid. To see a five year old kid playing Rachmaninov like a 30 year old is rather humbling, that is until you realize they can't read a bit of music.

btw, how long does it take for you to get to book 3?

I have not checked on this topic in...how long now???

Anyways, I think it takes until about seventh grade or so...but I could be mistaken on which books read music, but I know FOR SURE that books 5 and six read staff music. In any case, people are idiots....why did we even ask this question again? Seriously, if you couldn't figure it out, then, well....

[Peregrin Toker]

When you mentioned some japanese people's inability to practically apply learned data, I think this page might have some examples......

http://www.engrish.com/

[Nick]

This reminds me of a chem teacher from school who made every effort not to be teacher-like and instead swore like a trooper, told stories and generally tought us a lot without actually teaching us.

He also enjoyed making explosives far too much.

*suddenly suspicious*

He didn't have a story about hunting wild pigs with a hand grenade, did he? Or disposing of surplus sodium using a Milo tin, cardboard and a lake?

Or perhaps using his cigarette to create smoke so we could see a laser beam?

Or is it just a coincidence?

[Nick]

The Evolution of Thought:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/ ... _21_2.html
(Not the article I was looking for, but interesting nonetheless)

Less than 200 hundred years of public education. Less than 10 years of the World Wide Web. Is it really that surprising that people are having trouble coming to grips with the vast amount of information available to them?

Human mental machinery, by its nature, is irrational. Slothful induction is its primary modus operandi - and in many situations in every day life, that sort of induction is acceptable, or even beneficial. But, in wider issues, and when trying to take a longer view, are instincts break down - what we are trying to do is just too far out of their experience. And so we turn to logic and reason to fill that gap.

But think about what making that leap may require:
1. Exposure to genuine logic and reason (not always that easy to do, particularly if one grows up in a religious environment)
2. Backing your own judgment against that of your parents or peers (assuming that they aren't supportive)
3. Taking the risk of retaliation (if the environment is really bad)
4. Abandoning ideas that you feel are a part of what makes you 'you'.
5. Accepting that you are valuable simply by virtue of being you. Of all the billions of people who have ever lived on Earth, of all the unknowable number of conscious entities that have experienced this universe there never has been, and never will be, another one exactly like you.

I was lucky - my Dad is one of the most logical people I know, and my mother isn't that far behind (although she'd probably deny it). I live in Australia - there aren't likely to be any repercussions if I speak my mind. I've had access to the Internet for the past 10 years or more. I've had several teachers whose enthusiasm for their subjects was contagious.

It was comparatively easy for me to learn to be rational, but I still went through a phase of devout religious faith. And I'm glad I did - because I know what it is like to have faith, and I know what it is like to seek knowledge, and I definitely prefer the latter. But I also understand how unnatural rationality is - and so I can see where those who "just don't get it" are coming from.

Yes, there are a lot of irrational people out there, but, for many of them, it genuinely isn't their fault. This doesn't excuse the pathological cases like Azeron or Darkstar, but it makes it easier to an encouraging attitude, than to simply blast people saying "Dammit, why can't you be smarter."

If stupid people annoy you, then don't just whinge about it, try to do something about it. Sometimes (with the likes of say, Priesto or Arminius) it just isn't worth the hassle, because you'll achieve more pounding your head against a brick wall. But, for many others, it isn't that they are incapable of critical thnking, it is just that they have never had the opportunity to learn.

And the most important part of teaching someone is this: before you can teach anyone well, you have to have a reasonable understanding of two things. The first is yourself. The second is the student. The better your grasp of those two things, the more likely you will be able to teach them something. You can't teach a student who doesn't want to learn - and so you will need to address their fears. You will need to understand why they are being irrational. You need to be aware they may resent the fact that you are 'psychoanalysing' them - in which case, back off if you don't think it's worth ruining a friendship over. And, above all, never forget that you aren't perfect either - maybe there's something they can teach you, too.
[/quote]

[salm]

Or perhaps using his cigarette to create smoke so we could see a laser beam?

nothing special about that. all our chem teachers did that.

[Nick]

Why Do People Believe or Disbelieve?:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/ ... 9_3_1.html

Still not the article I was originally looking for, but it covers much of the same ground, and also does a better job of explaining what I was trying to get at in my previous post (it's also much longer than my previous post)

[MattTheSkywalker]

Do you guys think the normal, average person understands proper logic and how to argue their side in a debate? I mean, we all make fun of the Creationists/Fundamentalists and diehard Trekkies here, but the majority of people I've argued with in a lot of other places seem just as god damn stupid.

I'm of the opinion that 'god damn stupid' is a very accurate description of the mental abilities of most people online and in real life. I tend to attribute this to an education system which has been dumbed down for political purposes: after all, idiots will vote for anyone.

Or better yet, not vote at all.