Is Iraq Turning Into A New Vietnam?

[Admiral Valdemar]

Given the recent CIA report and the increase in violence throughout the nation against primarily American targets, is there still hope that the people, or rather, the insurgents can be nullified before all hell breaks loose? Or is the media playing this up as just another news story to hype and chug along?

It just looks to me that the resistance members are undermining any real progress.

[Knife]

Given the recent CIA report and the increase in violence throughout the nation against primarily American targets, is there still hope that the people, or rather, the insurgents can be nullified before all hell breaks loose? Or is the media playing this up as just another news story to hype and chug along?

It just looks to me that the resistance members are undermining any real progress.

It seems that most of the violence is centralized in the so called suni triangle. Which suggests that a majority of the country stands a very good chance of becoming a better place to live.

Which makes sence that the insurgents would focus on some of the major cities and those cities where they had a power base in the first place. The newest operation, 'Iron Hammer', seems to be focused on these key areas. Will it work and crush the insurgents? Don't know at the moment.

There apears to be two schools of thought here. One, where there is a limited amount of irregular troops causing a majority of the problems and that if you could break their back, you'd see a dramatic reduction in operations against allied efforts in Iraq.

Two, there is an increasing number of insurgents constantly being recruited in Iraq and abroad to fight against the allied efforts in Iraq.

Honestly, I don't know which one is correct or if it's a combination of the two. If one is correct, then operations like 'Iron Hammer' will help ease or come close to correcting the problem.

If two is correct, then it just might turn into a Vietnaum nightmare.

If it's a combo of the two, then it just gets more complicated.

[Stormbringer]

Given the recent CIA report and the increase in violence throughout the nation against primarily American targets, is there still hope that the people, or rather, the insurgents can be nullified before all hell breaks loose? Or is the media playing this up as just another news story to hype and chug along?

It just looks to me that the resistance members are undermining any real progress.

There is a serious problem with the terrorists and guerillas. But so far it's a lot of media hysteria and hype. We're hardly in a situation that can't be fixed. It's going to cost money and lives but we can, and have the moral obligation to, fix the situation we created.


And if the reports of Al-queda and other insurrgents being primarily foreigners then that's an all together encouraging. If that's the case it suggests that the average Iraqi doesn't want a fundamentalist state nor do they want Saddam back. They just want a safe, stable, and non-oppressive country.

An interesting article Durran posted

[Joe]

No.

Iraq is a desert. Vietnam is a jungle, more suitable for guerilla warfare and such. The Viet Cong received support from not only the native population, but also monetary support and aid from the USSR and China. The Iraq resistance forces are not very popular with the Iraqi population (although you'd think otherwise from media coverage) and there are Iraqis applying by the thousands to join civil defense forces and security forces. And the casualty figures don't even approach Vietnam levels.

I'm not saying that it isn't possible for Iraq to turn out to be really terrible for us (though I'd call that extremely unlikely), but all this talk of Iraq becoming the next Vietnam is paranoid fanaticism at best and partisan sniping that just makes things more difficult for us at worst.

They are similar in the fact that if we chicken out and lose our resolve, we will fail.

[Stravo]

We also can't ignore the fact that there are a growing number of foreign fighters coming in to bolster the Sadaam loyalists. They are filtering in primarily through Syria. What needs to be done is a little sabre rattling. Tell Syria to cut that shit out or you'll get a little of the Baghdad special.

[SirNitram]

If other nations have access to CNN, that sabre rattling might be pointless. Modern media has made it hard to disguise, oh, the fact all our carrier's need to go home and refuel, or whatever it was several weeks back.

[MKSheppard]

If other nations have access to CNN, that sabre rattling might be pointless. Modern media has made it hard to disguise, oh, the fact all our carrier's need to go home and refuel, or whatever it was several weeks back.

you forget that we now have bases in Iraq that we can fly our bombers from

[SirNitram]

If other nations have access to CNN, that sabre rattling might be pointless. Modern media has made it hard to disguise, oh, the fact all our carrier's need to go home and refuel, or whatever it was several weeks back.

you forget that we now have bases in Iraq that we can fly our bombers from

True. But those bases are within the area these irregulars are fighting, putting them at far greater risk than the rather-unassailable carrier fleet.

[MKSheppard]

True. But those bases are within the area these irregulars are fighting, putting them at far greater risk than the rather-unassailable carrier fleet.

Uhm, there's more to Iraq than the Iron Triangle around Baghdad

[HemlockGrey]

If other nations have access to CNN, that sabre rattling might be pointless. Modern media has made it hard to disguise, oh, the fact all our carrier's need to go home and refuel, or whatever it was several weeks back.

...and? I think Assad is smart enough to realize that the carriers can come back.

[RogueIce]

I dunno... If they're sending in a division of Marines like I heard, then, well, from talk going around my unit, the Marines are there to get things done. If the irregulars fuck with them, the Marines fuck back.

I remember in Black Hawk Down how they were talking about Aidid waiting for the Marines to leave, before starting shit. And I don't remember it being this bad in Iraq until after they pulled out the devil dogs, though my memory may be faulty on that one.

So, if they send in Marines, and they're allowed to do what they need to do, then I have high hopes it won't be as bad.

[Rubberanvil]

So, if they send in Marines, and they're allowed to do what they need to do, then I have high hopes it won't be as bad.

With the media vultures circling around watching the Marines every move, especially if they [media] get word of what their [Marines] mission is there. The Marines are going to be leashed because of the media, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

[MKSheppard]

I dunno... If they're sending in a division of Marines like I heard, then, well, from talk going around my unit, the Marines are there to get things done. If the irregulars fuck with them, the Marines fuck back.

Part of that is the PR reputation the marines have built up, Saddam didn't
help matters any by having his propagandists claim that you had to kill and
drink the blood of a baby to become a MArine

[Wicked Pilot]

True. But those bases are within the area these irregulars are fighting, putting them at far greater risk than the rather-unassailable carrier fleet.

Anyone foolish enough to attack an American airbase would not live to make the mistake again.

[Admiral Valdemar]

True. But those bases are within the area these irregulars are fighting, putting them at far greater risk than the rather-unassailable carrier fleet.

Anyone foolish enough to attack an American airbase would not live to make the mistake again.

What if it were guerilla troops like what is going on now and with no real background organisation? That's the problem here, we're fighting mercs and terrorist organisations, not nations where it's much more clear cut.

Still, that'd be one hell of a move to pull off.

[MKSheppard]

Anyone foolish enough to attack an American airbase would not live to make the mistake again.

I dunno, this is USAF security personnel we're talking about. They have to
get their deluxe leather flight jackets on, and then ask permission from the
pilots to fire, for fear of dinging the zoomy planes on the flightline

[Wicked Pilot]

What if it were guerilla troops like what is going on now and with no real background organisation? That's the problem here, we're fighting mercs and terrorist organisations, not nations where it's much more clear cut.

What the hell are you talking about? If you approach an airbase you get shot. These things aren't in the middle of the jungle or urban areas with places to hide. These are for the most part out in desert land. Against the expeditionary security forces squadrons you would not stand a chance.

[Admiral Valdemar]

What if it were guerilla troops like what is going on now and with no real background organisation? That's the problem here, we're fighting mercs and terrorist organisations, not nations where it's much more clear cut.

What the hell are you talking about? If you approach an airbase you get shot. These things aren't in the middle of the jungle or urban areas with places to hide. These are for the most part out in desert land. Against the expeditionary security forces squadrons you would not stand a chance.

Which is why I was talking about the origins of the attack and not the bloody attack! If it was an attack by a nation and you knew that for certain, you could retaliate, not so for mercs and other independent entities unless you can find good evidence for them being backed by a specific nation.

[Wicked Pilot]

Which is why I was talking about the origins of the attack and not the bloody attack! If it was an attack by a nation and you knew that for certain, you could retaliate, not so for mercs and other independent entities unless you can find good evidence for them being backed by a specific nation.

That is irrevelant. There is no need to retaliate because those who try to attack the airbases are wasted before they can accomplish anything.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Sorry Greg, looks like you and the rest are going back...

now question have the desert rats and the SAS left yet, then again their rep for bad assedness hasn't exactly helped them in Ireland....

[Admiral Valdemar]

Sorry Greg, looks like you and the rest are going back...

now question have the desert rats and the SAS left yet, then again their rep for bad assedness hasn't exactly helped them in Ireland....

Even if they have, we would be the last to know. They are spec-ops here and not really something to broadcast.

[Sea Skimmer]

The resistance in Iraq isn't challenging US forces to open battles nor forming large fortified base areas nor do they make up nearly as large a percentage of the population as the VC did, only a few hundred or so people could easily be behind every attack on American forces so far.

[Vympel]

If fighters are coming from Syria then sabre-rattling won't come with much credibility. There aren't enough men to hit Syria. Bomb it? What's that going to achieve? Nothing. Mind you, invading won't achieve anything either.

[Sarevok]

If other nations have access to CNN, that sabre rattling might be pointless. Modern media has made it hard to disguise, oh, the fact all our carrier's need to go home and refuel, or whatever it was several weeks back.

Is not CNN available in most Arab countries ?

[Spanky The Dolphin]

Some of it seems to be hype, since the papers seem to think that every single death has to be first, second, or third-page worthy news...