The LotR Elves Are Homosexuals (Theory)

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-11-13 06:53am

If you live forever just how many kids would you want! You think 2 or 3 is bad just imagine taking care of 100 ! And when they grow up you've got their education to pay for and then they'll be sponging off of you it just gets worse and worse! No wonder there's no kids running around they probably already have 10 and they're all a couplke of hundred years old by now!

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2003-11-13 08:32am

Patrick Degan wrote: Isn't it obvious? Elf-souls were being born in humans. That's why they surrendered when they were on the verge of victory in the Elf/Man War.

please put me out of my misery and tell me why that sounds so damn familier

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-13 09:03am

Darth Wong wrote:I thought Arwen and Aragorn were able to conceive. Doesn't that mean elven biology can't be too much different from human biology?

If we go Clarke's Third Law on this and interpretate the Tolkien Mythology as a metaphor for something much more futuristic than commonly thought by Tolkienists, it could be that the Elves actually are genetically enhanced humans who have achieved immortality through some sort of very advanced biotechnology.

Batman · Post by **Batman** » 2003-11-13 09:10am

Zac Naloen wrote:
Patrick Degan wrote: Isn't it obvious? Elf-souls were being born in humans. That's why they surrendered when they were on the verge of victory in the Elf/Man War.
please put me out of my misery and tell me why that sounds so damn familier

*beats Zac Naloen over the head with his copy of the Babylon 5 Season 2 DVD's*

Oh, what the hell.

*beats Zac Naloen over the head with his copy of the Babylon 5 season 1 DVD's, too*

And if you should be about to ask 'What's Babylon 5', be warned that my Season 3 DVDs are on their way so...

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2003-11-13 06:09pm

Remember through that Arwen will become Mortal when she goes off with Aragorn, Well yes Numenor Mortal, (Several Hundred Years lifespan as a reward from the Valar, who could not make them Immortal, that being Eru's Preserve)

As for the no Children seen, maybe the Elves are keeping their Children away from the Ring bearer, or maybe they simply have decided that their Youth will be born in the undying lands now, not seeing the World of men. Maybe they have slow biologies, not needing to reproduce for Biological continuation of the species would mean low Birth Rates. (Although not impossible for Large familys, One Particular Elf went on to have Seven Chidlren.)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-13 08:08pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I thought Arwen and Aragorn were able to conceive. Doesn't that mean elven biology can't be too much different from human biology?
If we go Clarke's Third Law on this and interpretate the Tolkien Mythology as a metaphor for something much more futuristic than commonly thought by Tolkienists, it could be that the Elves actually are genetically enhanced humans who have achieved immortality through some sort of very advanced biotechnology.

*WHACK*

Don't be stupid.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-11-13 08:23pm

Well, Eru did make them to have higher class blood than men.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-13 08:26pm

Tolkien has described the Elves as basically being a race of man that never fell. That is, they are without Original Sin.

But that's more symbolically and literary-wise, not factual.

EDIT: And no, Original Sin doesn't have anything to do with sex...

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-13 09:21pm

There are three reasons perfectly reasonable reasons that Elves probably have so few children.

1) They probably take a long time to reach sexual maturity. Every Elf we know of that's had a kid has been centuries or millenia old before they had a kid. Given an elven generation appears to be centuries at least, they might simply not be able to.

2) They probably don't have the same sex drive that humans do. Galadriel doesn't think much of parting with Celborn for a decade or more so it's entirely possible they don't have the same immediacy to their sex drive.

3) It's entirely possible they aren't as fertile as humans. Aragorn and Arwen only had one child and he was born decades after RotK. Beren and Luthien likewise went a long, long time (a decade or better) before they had their child. Sure Tuor had his twins soon after he met Elwing but he might have just gotten the timing right.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-13 10:03pm

Trytostaydead wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:But we know that they can reproduce, so there is obviously very little sex drive if they can go for centuries without knocking somebody up. Or do they use elf condoms? Do they get elf abortions?

I think their serenity is the result of the fire of youth being taken out of them by age and diminished hormones, possibly as a side-effect of their immortality. They have near-zero sex drive.
Nonono.. look at Arwen.. she's just oozing sexuality. They just do it anally if they're not trying to reproduce

Sheesh, surprised no one brought this up yet.

That's because I strongly disagree. This isn't a night at McCool's, and Arwen does not ooze with sexuality. Quite the contrary; she's an ice queen, and I did not find any of the female elves to exude any kind of sexuality at all. I actually get the impression that they could go hundreds of years without sex and not complain.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2003-11-15 08:59am

Arwen is the virginal princess that so many subsequent fantasy works have done a particularly poor job at copying; and that The Princess Bride did a particularly good job at skewering.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2003-11-16 02:28am

As for what Tolkien has official said about Elves and sex, I keep seeing references to this site.

Link dead? Didn't show up for me either. Either their server's having problems or the entire site is dead. If it is just a temporary server problem, somebody'll be able to tell us what the hell is actually on that page once they get the problem fixed.

Johonebesus · Post by **Johonebesus** » 2003-11-16 05:09am

Shadow WarChief wrote: Link dead? Didn't show up for me either. Either their server's having problems or the entire site is dead. If it is just a temporary server problem, somebody'll be able to tell us what the hell is actually on that page once they get the problem fixed.

It's rather light in tone, but if it is accurate, then elves lost their libidos after having a couple of kids. He quotes an essay of Tolkien's saying: "With the exercise of the power (of generation), the desire soon ceases, and the mind turns to other things…they have many other urges of body and of mind which their nature urges them to fulfil." Of course, he abbreviates the essay to LACE, so I'm not so sure about the authenticity. He says it's in Morgoth's Ring, if anyone wants to look it up.

And for those of more prurient tendancies, the site also hosts sexual fanfiction, both straight and slash. No Ents, just elves and maiar and orcs.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-16 10:55am

Johonebesus wrote: And for those of more prurient tendancies, the site also hosts sexual fanfiction, both straight and slash. No Ents, just elves and maiar and orcs.

Orcs??
Orcs??
ORCS????

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-11-16 01:26pm

SHJ, the question is, Orcs/Ents...?

Having put that thought into your head, I'll go away now...

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-16 03:46pm

NecronLord wrote:SHJ, the question is, Orcs/Ents...?

Having put that thought into your head, I'll go away now...

YEUUUUGHHHHH!!!!!

At least they don't add fish-men into the equation!

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2003-11-16 03:49pm

Personally I prefer to believe that the female elves are lesbians, it's much better for my mental health that way.

Lonestar · Post by **Lonestar** » 2003-11-16 04:34pm

fish-men like Murlocs from WC3? Or maybe the Crab-people?

Or the Naga?

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2003-11-16 05:46pm

NecronLord wrote:SHJ, the question is, Orcs/Ents...?

Having put that thought into your head, I'll go away now...

Images of wooden phalai and daemons-of-lust ionly knows what are ente4ring my mind, thnaks to you. But thanks to my short-as-fuck attention span, they'll be gone by the time I finish this post and leave this thread.

Crom · Post by **Crom** » 2003-11-16 10:01pm

Darth Wong wrote:I thought Arwen and Aragorn were able to conceive. Doesn't that mean elven biology can't be too much different from human biology?

Arwen and Aragorn were able to concieve. But considering Aragorn's genetic heritage is an interesting exercise in itself.

Consider: First off he's descended from a human/elf combination already, he's actually distantly related to Elrond's brother. Even further than that he's related to this elf who got it on with a Maiar, or minor deity.

Aragorn is probably not totally human as we understand it.

The way Tolkien explained it in the Silmarillon, was that when the union of a man an an elf produces a child the child must choose to be immortal or mortal. So ... I guess their genetically compatible, but it seems that they either result in immortal elves or mortal men.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-11-17 12:55pm

Dorsk 81 wrote: 1.How many Elvish men do you see?

2.How many Elvish women do you see?

More importantly, how can you tell?*ducks for cover*

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-17 01:40pm

Crom wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:I thought Arwen and Aragorn were able to conceive. Doesn't that mean elven biology can't be too much different from human biology?
Arwen and Aragorn were able to concieve. But considering Aragorn's genetic heritage is an interesting exercise in itself.

Which is all negated by Beren (man) and Luthien (elf-maiar) and Tuor (man) and Idril (elf). Clearly elven biology is compatible enough with human biology. And for that matter, incarnated maiar are also fertile enough with elves and presumably men as well.

Darksider · Post by **Darksider** » 2003-11-17 01:48pm

Johonebesus wrote: And for those of more prurient tendancies, the site also hosts sexual fanfiction, both straight and slash. No Ents, just elves and maiar and orcs.

Must.....Not.......click........link

:::::: Five seconds later::::::::::::::::::

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

MY EYES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-20 11:44am

Lonestar wrote:fish-men like Murlocs from WC3?

Actually, I was thinking of the Deep Ones from HP Lovecraft's The Shadow Over Innsmouth. Despite the fact that they definately NOT are human, they are able to crossbreed with humans. (although most of these crossbreeds are hideously ugly, with the exception of Asenath Waite)

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The LotR Elves Are Homosexuals (Theory)

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