2 Helicopters down in iraq

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2003-11-16 12:49am

2 Black Hawks crashed in Mosul, 17 killed, 5 injured, they possibly crashed.

any comments?

looks like vietnam in there, or something close to it

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-16 12:50am

Ace Pace wrote: looks like vietnam in there, or something close to it

No, vietnam is when we lose 100~ a week, and the insurgents actually
control large swathes of land and actually contest our control of major
cities, ala tet

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-11-16 12:51am

MKSheppard wrote:
Ace Pace wrote: looks like vietnam in there, or something close to it
No, vietnam is when we lose 100~ a week, and the insurgents actually
control large swathes of land and actually contest our control of major
cities, ala tet

On the other hand, perception is the only thing that really matters politically....

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-16 12:53am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: On the other hand, perception is the only thing that really matters politically....

Do I see mass demonstrations in our cities to get us out of Iraq? No.

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-11-16 01:11am

MKSheppard wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: On the other hand, perception is the only thing that really matters politically....
Do I see mass demonstrations in our cities to get us out of Iraq? No.

The mass deomonstrations of the late 60's were conducted by student organizations, not the "silent majority". The majority of the American public wanted us out of Vietnam, yet they did not take to the streets. Nixon was elected on a platform of getting us out of Vietnam, lest you forget.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-16 01:17am

Ace Pace wrote: looks like vietnam in there, or something close to it

The US lost over 4000 helicopters in Vietnam.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-16 01:19am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: Nixon was elected on a platform of getting us out of Vietnam, lest you forget.

BZZZZZT!

He was elected on "Peace with Honor", which was a lot different than
"lets cut and run right the fuck now"

BlkbrryTheGreat · Post by **BlkbrryTheGreat** » 2003-11-16 02:01am

MKSheppard wrote:
BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: Nixon was elected on a platform of getting us out of Vietnam, lest you forget.
BZZZZZT!

He was elected on "Peace with Honor", which was a lot different than
"lets cut and run right the fuck now"

Wow, peace with honor sure dosen't sound like "getting us out of Vietnam".

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-11-16 02:29am

Sea Skimmer wrote:
The US lost over 4000 helicopters in Vietnam.

If the public perception is deaths for no decernable reason in a situation that might look like Veitnam, then numbers are quite irrelivant.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-16 02:38am

Stuart Mackey wrote:
If the public perception is deaths for no decernable reason in a situation that might look like Veitnam, then numbers are quite irrelivant.

Indeed they are. However what the situation actually looks like and what people decide it is are often two different things. I was addressing the former.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-16 04:46am

They collided after one of them was hit by ground fire. Again, all this proves is how desperate those Ba'athist dead enders are getting, and how successful everything is over there.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-16 11:36am

BlkbrryTheGreat wrote: Wow, peace with honor sure dosen't sound like "getting us out of Vietnam".

I see you missed his methods that he used to force the Peace Treaty. Instead
of just leaving Vietnam like the protesters wanted him to, he unleashed the
USN and USAF onto the North Vietnamese and they kicked much ass, and
caused the North Vietnamese to run out of SAMs and large caliber AA ammo.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2003-11-16 12:02pm

How many were killed now in Iraq?
The total numbers would be interesting.....

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-16 10:54pm

Tribun wrote:How many were killed now in Iraq?
The total numbers would be interesting.....

Almost 420.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-11-18 07:00pm

Vympel wrote:
Tribun wrote:How many were killed now in Iraq?
The total numbers would be interesting.....
Almost 420.

But does that include reservists. IIRC the US doesn't include Reserve forces in casualty counts (I could be wrong, but I recall hearing this in a lecture).

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-11-18 08:11pm

I have never heard that. Sounds like bullshit to me.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-18 08:52pm

weemadando wrote:
But does that include reservists. IIRC the US doesn't include Reserve forces in casualty counts (I could be wrong, but I recall hearing this in a lecture).

That would be what we call bullshit. The figure includes all forces and deaths in both combat and accidents.

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-11-19 05:58pm

Sea Skimmer wrote:
weemadando wrote:
But does that include reservists. IIRC the US doesn't include Reserve forces in casualty counts (I could be wrong, but I recall hearing this in a lecture).
That would be what we call bullshit. The figure includes all forces and deaths in both combat and accidents.

Might have been a 'Nam thing, or from something else... But I know at times the news has been reporting US Army casualties and not reporting those of the USMC, or other coalition forces in the total count.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-19 10:59pm

weemadando wrote:
Might have been a 'Nam thing, or from something else...

Or just pure bullshit, I seem to recall a lot of that coming from your teachers.

But I know at times the news has been reporting US Army casualties and not reporting those of the USMC, or other coalition forces in the total count.

Yup, when they say US ARMY casualties they mean US Army casualties.

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