Prediction: what will Iraq look like two years from now?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-18 06:08am

Two from now Iraq will be a Afganistan style puppet state.

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-11-18 06:30am

The_Nice_Guy wrote:Well, nobody said it'll be easy.

I could be mistaking but I can't say I recall Bush mentioning that there would be any great difficulty behind it.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-18 07:32am

Iraq's current condition realy saddens me. Before the Gulf War Iraq was rich and prospersous. One of my uncles lived in Iraq at the time and he made good money. But the first Gulf War ruined everything. While the war was Saddam's fault the US made some mistakes too. If they had overthrown Saddam right after the first Gulf War Iraq would have been a much better place today.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-11-18 07:41am

I don't remember Bush saying the word 'easy' or some such synonym at any time about the war or the entire conflict in general. It was probably Rummy or some hawk who did.

Anybody got a link to a speech where he or his administration said something like that? I think they're probably too canny to say something whic might easily bite them in the ass later on.

This was the one I've found.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 01-15.html

Major combat operations in Iraq have ended.

*snicker*

Matter of semantics, eh?

We have difficult work to do in Iraq.

Well, he said it there. Anybody want to try twisting his words?

And we will stand with the new leaders of Iraq as they establish a government of, by, and for the Iraqi people.

Isn't this what we're worried about?

Well, there you have it. Shrubby did say it was going to be difficult in a widely publicised speech. Has he changed his tune? Evidence is pending.

The Wobbly Guy

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-11-18 07:45am

evilcat4000 wrote:snip

Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20.

The Wobbly Guy

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2003-11-18 07:52am

To rebuild Iraq, we need 5 things:

1. A news media that doesn't wail and moan over each individual death.
2. A constitution that says "Fuck off" to Islam in the government
3. A congress that doesn't mind spending tens of billions, or even hundreds of billions of dollars on Iraq
4. An educated Iraqi populace that is loyal to democratic government
5. The will to rebuild Iraq without trying to turn it into an international popularity contest

How many of those points do we have?

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-11-18 08:27am

You missed out one point.

An educated Iraqi populace that understands and accepts the separation of religion and state.

The Wobbly Guy

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-18 09:56am

An educated Iraqi populace that understands and accepts the separation of religion and state.

The Iraqis understand that very well. Just because a country is muslim majority does not mean it can not be secular. Look at Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia as example.

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-11-18 10:44am

The_Nice_Guy wrote:An educated Iraqi populace that understands and accepts the separation of religion and state.

Separation of church and state has worked well in the U.S. despite the fact that many, if not most, Americans genuinely belief that there is no such thing and that the U.S. is a christian nation.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-18 11:06am

Setzer wrote:To rebuild Iraq, we need 5 things:

1. A news media that doesn't wail and moan over each individual death.

Not gonna happen.

2. A constitution that says "Fuck off" to Islam in the government

Not a chance in Hell.

3. A congress that doesn't mind spending tens of billions, or even hundreds of billions of dollars on Iraq

Well the president certainly doesn't have any aversions to this ...

4. An educated Iraqi populace that is loyal to democratic government

Doable.

5. The will to rebuild Iraq without trying to turn it into an international popularity contest

Absurd. If you think we're going to fund this reconstruction exclusively, or that we'd even like to, you're insane.

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-11-18 11:31am

Well, the international community has yet to pony up any significant funds for Iraqi reconstruction. Some foreign companies need to get in on the "action" methinks. Just as long as they bring armored cars and lots of body armor, their contractors will be tip top!

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-11-18 11:39am

Vympel wrote:Well, the international community has yet to pony up any significant funds for Iraqi reconstruction. Some foreign companies need to get in on the "action" methinks. Just as long as they bring armored cars and lots of body armor, their contractors will be tip top!

I honestly can't see any foreign commerce moving in with any real numbers until security is "tip top", not much of a business if your stock is being RPG'd.

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-11-18 12:22pm

evilcat4000 wrote:
An educated Iraqi populace that understands and accepts the separation of religion and state.
The Iraqis understand that very well. Just because a country is muslim majority does not mean it can not be secular. Look at Bangladesh, Indonesia, Malaysia as example.

Oh please. Malaysia is just to the north of me, and I know damn well if they're secular or not.

And guess what? They're not. Their oppressive laws, treatment of chinese and other minorities, and general bias against non-Muslims makes it damn clear that their separation of state and religion is just a joke.

As for Sir Sirius' point that most Americans believe the US is a christian nation, that has yet to be conclusively proven. How many believers do you need? 50%? 60% 100% 10%? Or is it just the Repubs? The Demos? The fence sitters? How many is enough?

The Wobbly Guy

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-18 11:04pm

evilcat4000 wrote:Two from now Iraq will be a Afganistan style puppet state.

They're a puppet state? Of who?

The_Nice_Guy · Post by **The_Nice_Guy** » 2003-11-19 05:02am

A puppet state...

Of the United States of America. But... what's wrong with that?!?

Of course, if the Iraqi people don't like it, let's see the USA deal with another Vietnam, and Europe sayng all the while... "We told you so".

The Wobbly Guy

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-11-19 08:48am

The_Nice_Guy wrote:As for Sir Sirius' point that most Americans believe the US is a christian nation, that has yet to be conclusively proven.

Download this PDF here and see page four.

The_Nice_Guy wrote:How many believers do you need? 50%? 60% 100% 10%? Or is it just the Repubs? The Demos? The fence sitters? How many is enough?

Most usualy means more then half, doesn't it?

h0rus · Post by **h0rus** » 2003-12-01 02:42pm

The_Nice_Guy wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:snip
Yeah, hindsight is always 20/20.

The Wobbly Guy

Idiot.