Microsoft really does plan to rule the world

Stormtrooper THX-1138 · Post by **Stormtrooper THX-1138** » 2002-10-04 01:35pm

I was debating on whether or not to post this article for discussion on the "Off Topic" board or this one; then I thought abut it a little and decided that this article does indeed have to do with the abuse of science, immorality, and Microsoft's perverse and diabolical logic.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

Read on. Warning: if you don't want to read about how it is that Intel, Bill Gates, and the US Government are going to drive a stake through the heart of the Information Age, read no further.

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2002-10-04 02:40pm

We know. This is the point were everybody buys AMD processers and downloads Linux or just buy Macs.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-04 02:44pm

just buy Macs

Unless my computer punchs me in the face every time there is an error and gives me a 100 Volt hello to my Eyes every time I open a Link in IE, it still won't be as bad as what would happen if Apple got alot of market share(Look at what they do with that which they have now)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-10-04 02:58pm

Isn't AMD partnered with microsoft and doesn't it support Palladium? And besides only someone stupid would name something after a metal. It's like naming a car "iron".

BILL GATES MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2002-10-04 02:58pm

Mr Bean wrote:
just buy Macs
Unless my computer punchs me in the face every time there is an error and gives me a 100 Volt hello to my Eyes every time I open a Link in IE, it still won't be as bad as what would happen if Apple got alot of market share(Look at what they do with that which they have now)

Please explain.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-04 06:16pm

Please explain.

Complete Hardware and software Control, One of the diffucltys for devopling for Mac(Little Know and obviously not advertised) is to port anything over, you must first SEEK Apples Permison, be it hardware or software,

Also the markup on Apple products is crazy, sure they have little market share but does that quailfiy 50-700% Markup compared to an equivlant PC compoent?
Not to mention the fact that Apple is already considering weither or not to intergrate Palladium *like features in with thier products, sure as hell in MS Apple verison of Office there will be, and once you can do it for somthing as congomerated as Office,

I don't dought they could not *Offer(Considering the amount of Stock MS has been aquiring of Apple it might be MORE than just an offer) a few of the Palladium measures, or maybe even the whole sheband coded over for Apples OS

Heres how I view

MS after a Smart, Dumb and Mean Pill

Their programs are much less buggy than MS

They have no steped over to x86 even after five years ago it was obvious they just could not keep up using Motorola

Thier stances on SEEKING PERMISION to devople anything for thier OS(Not just Pay the Fee in MSs case but both)

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-10-04 07:37pm

TCPA/Paladium matches Vernor Vinge's concept of 'ubiquitous law enforcement' almost to a tee. Vinge regards ULE as one of the most effective civilization killers possible. I for one don't thing he's wrong.

Let me put it this way: once TCPA becomes entrenched the information renisannce that began with Gutenberg's printing press is over, and once that goes, so goes civilization as we know it. Imagine 1984 except orders of magnitude worse.

Anyone who's not terified by the implications of TCPA either doesn't know enough about it or expects to be one of the members of the party with access to the master key.

Post by **weemadando** » 2002-10-04 07:47pm

johnpham wrote:Isn't AMD partnered with microsoft and doesn't it support Palladium? And besides only someone stupid would name something after a metal. It's like naming a car "iron".

BILL GATES MUST DIE!!!!!!!!!

Microsofts Naz'Ghul attorneys are now on the way to your home to serve a libel suit agaisnt you.

oberon · Post by **oberon** » 2002-10-04 08:18pm

Ahh, it's frightening, but hey, it could pave the way for a REAL computer revolution, in a market created for and run by people who won't put up with this "ULE", to coin a phrase (

). Such as a Linux explosion? That would be cool. Explosions, heh.

Singular Quartet · Post by **Singular Quartet** » 2002-10-04 09:23pm

Bean, please edit your post or repost in an intelligable form. I can't understand what your saying.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-04 09:36pm

*Edit, Happy?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-04 09:58pm

Complete Hardware and software Control, One of the diffucltys for devopling for Mac(Little Know and obviously not advertised) is to port anything over, you must first SEEK Apples Permison, be it hardware or software,

Are you on crack? Developers don't need to ask for Apple permission just to write for their platform or port Windows applications. Where did you get this from?

Also the markup on Apple products is crazy, sure they have little market share but does that quailfiy 50-700% Markup compared to an equivlant PC compoent?

It's a 30% markup. Normally, I wouldn't mind it if Apple's towers performed as well as the average PC, but they're severely underperforming for most things compared to a PC. Granted, the G4 is a very fast chip (it slaughtered Athlon XP's and Pentium 4's in RC5), but the 133MHz bus keeps it starved for data. Dual processor or no, Apple seriously needs to update their hardware to match what's in the PC world.

Not to mention the fact that Apple is already considering weither or not to intergrate Palladium *like features in with thier products, sure as hell in MS Apple verison of Office there will be, and once you can do it for somthing as congomerated as Office,

Again, are you on crack? Apple has taken every opportunity to publicly criticize Microsoft for their unwillingness to embrace open software standards. Apple has been plugging open standards ever since OS X came out.

At this point, I'd kill for an Apple-developed version of Office that was fully compatible with the Microsoft distribution. Office v.X may be nicer-looking and overall better than Office XP, but that isn't saying much. When you use an application that was written truly for OS X, you come to appreciate the brilliance of Apple's development strategy -- specifically, Cocoa applications, where each application acts almost exactly the same interface-wise.

I don't dought they could not *Offer(Considering the amount of Stock MS has been aquiring of Apple it might be MORE than just an offer) a few of the Palladium measures, or maybe even the whole sheband coded over for Apples OS

Microsoft sold its stock in Apple long ago.

Heres how I view

MS after a Smart, Dumb and Mean Pill

Their programs are much less buggy than MS

Their products are also much more secure, and Apple's response time to security holes has been nothing short of impressive. For example, a month or so back, a hole was found in their Software Update code that allowed a remote machine to masquerade as the Apple Software Update server because Software Update didn't perform any kind of validation checks on the server it was communicating with. This would allow a remote attacker to disguise a trojan as a software update and have the user unsuspectingly download it. Apple released a security patch within a week of the hole's posting.

Side note: Little known fact is that it was actually Symantec that wrote a lot of Apple's Software Update code based on their Live Update stuff, so they made sure to keep that little nugget of information quiet when the hole was discovered. :D

They have no steped over to x86 even after five years ago it was obvious they just could not keep up using Motorola

Going over to x86 would be suicide for Apple. Besides, there's lots of talk of IBM's GigaProcessor UltraLite (based on the Power 4 architecture) powering Apple's next-generation hardware. x86 would be a last resort because of development and optimization issues.

Thier stances on SEEKING PERMISION to devople anything for thier OS(Not just Pay the Fee in MSs case but both)

No such restriction exists. You're making things up. Apple's Developer Tools are a free download.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-04 10:09pm

Durandal wrote:It's a 30% markup. Normally, I wouldn't mind it if Apple's towers performed as well as the average PC, but they're severely underperforming for most things compared to a PC. Granted, the G4 is a very fast chip (it slaughtered Athlon XP's and Pentium 4's in RC5), but the 133MHz bus keeps it starved for data. Dual processor or no, Apple seriously needs to update their hardware to match what's in the PC world.

The only way the G4e would be even remotely competitive at SMP is if they went for the dual-FSB route, which they haven't. Even then they'll be comparable to Tulatin P3s. Some see Apple not doing that as an indication that they'll be moving to a NUMA-like architecure soon.

Microsoft sold its stock in Apple long ago.

That and it was nonvoting stock as well.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2002-10-05 12:44am

Supreme Chancellor Gates has put on his black Sith robe and declared himself Emperor! We must rebel!

Ok, so help me out here. How much software actually runs on Linux? What's Lindows? Could I do something weird like... say... run a Mac OS emulator through Linux, and just pretend I have a really powerful Macintosh?

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2002-10-05 01:11am

Supreme Chancellor Gates has put on his black Sith robe and declared himself Emperor! We must rebel!

Ummm last time I checked, Sith Lords don't use the Swastika symbol....
This is more like it

Lata and Happy M$-Bashing!

Enlightenment · Post by **Enlightenment** » 2002-10-05 02:40am

And to think people here thought I was overreacting when I described Gates as the next Hitler and said that wiping Redmond off the face of the earth would be a good idea....

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-05 08:41am

Here is a good long thread on Palladium and what it is:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopi ... 3910939235

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-05 09:22am

His Divine Shadow wrote:Here is a good long thread on Palladium and what it is:
http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopi ... 3910939235

I thought Paul Hill left the BF???

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-10-05 09:41am

phongn wrote:I thought Paul Hill left the BF???

Obviously not, I hadn't known he had left, I only lurk there from time to time.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-05 10:56am

Are you on crack? Developers don't need to ask for Apple permission just to write for their platform or port Windows applications. Where did you get this from?

From the year I spent at Adobe before we adding anything new into the Mac version we had to run the code past them(Think MS WQHL Driver certification but Manditory, IE we where not allowed to realse it till they looked at it)

It's a 30% markup. Normally, I wouldn't mind it if Apple's towers performed as well as the average PC, but they're severely underperforming for most things compared to a PC. Granted, the G4 is a very fast chip

30%? Prehaps that small on certian invidual parts but when your looking at 180$ DVD Players CD/RWs when I can get those for less than 70$ most places....

(it slaughtered Athlon XP's and Pentium 4's in RC5)

Ahh yes RC5, the Benchmark coded to take advantage of every single Dodad and whatnot with the G4, Half of the P4s special instructions and a quater of AMD? Rigght. I also notice they did not use the newer core versions of the Thunderbird but a year older revision in most of the testing
But of course when one calcuates in that for one G4 Chip one can buy THREE Thunderbirds... Agian with the Mark-up

Again, are you on crack? Apple has taken every opportunity to publicly criticize Microsoft for their unwillingness to embrace open software standards. Apple has been plugging open standards ever since OS X came out.

Hello!!! Everyone criticize MS, its a freken national pastime amoung programers, EVERYONE claims to embrace open software standerds but its the rare few who acutal do it, What has Apple done UNTIL OS X? Say what about Firewire? What? They want to chanrge a royality for it? Heaven forbid it must be Lies AAALL LIES!

Microsoft sold its stock in Apple long ago.

But did Bill or Balmer sell thier personal shares? or Raymond V. Gilmartin and the rest of the board either?

MS's top brass if not nessarly thier company still owns quite a bit of Apple

Their products are also much more secure, and Apple's response time to security holes has been nothing short of impressive

Let me share somthing with you, EVERYONE does better than MS when it comes to secruity, Its like that old Southern Phrase to justfiy Assholes, At least he's better than Hitler!

You're making things up. Apple's Developer Tools are a free download

See above about Adobe example

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-05 03:51pm

From the year I spent at Adobe before we adding anything new into the Mac version we had to run the code past them(Think MS WQHL Driver certification but Manditory, IE we where not allowed to realse it till they looked at it)

That's because Adobe and Apple are extremely close, or didn't you realize that when you worked there? Of course the relationship would be like that! Adobe is part of Apple's lifeblood! Apple wants OS X Adobe products to be optimized up the ass for their platform, and Adobe wants to please Apple.

You can't take that one example and say it's true of the entire industry. Do you seriously think that shareware authors contact Apple asking for permission to write for their platform?

30%? Prehaps that small on certian invidual parts but when your looking at 180$ DVD Players CD/RWs when I can get those for less than 70$ most places....

It's about 30% on the overall hardware cost of a machine. This is well-known.

Ahh yes RC5, the Benchmark coded to take advantage of every single Dodad and whatnot with the G4, Half of the P4s special instructions and a quater of AMD? Rigght. I also notice they did not use the newer core versions of the Thunderbird but a year older revision in most of the testing
But of course when one calcuates in that for one G4 Chip one can buy THREE Thunderbirds... Agian with the Mark-up

Price/performance is a valid criticism, but it doesn't change the fact that the G4 is a better-performing chip per clock-cycle. However, that matters little when the P4 is edging beyond 3GHz and costs half as much.

Hello!!! Everyone criticize MS, its a freken national pastime amoung programers, EVERYONE claims to embrace open software standerds but its the rare few who acutal do it, What has Apple done UNTIL OS X? Say what about Firewire? What? They want to chanrge a royality for it? Heaven forbid it must be Lies AAALL LIES!

Bullshit. Apple actually embraces open standards, or didn't you notice that OS X is a *nix distribution with SSH, Apache, Telnet, FTP, et cetera built right in? Did you conveniently forget that Apple has open sourced Rendezvous as a standard so that no one will own it? Did you also forget that Apple only wanted to charge royalties for the use of the FireWire name, and not the use of the actual IEEE-1394 standard, which is why Sony calls it "iLink"? Did you also forget that Apple dragged the MPEG group kicking and screaming into a licensing deal that would allow consumers to stream MPEG-4 video for free, in order for the standard to catch on, instead of forcing consumers to pay royalties per stream, like the MPEG group wanted? I guess you also forgot that OS X was a radical departure for Apple, and what they did before doesn't really matter? OS X and open standards are the way Apple is now.

But did Bill or Balmer sell thier personal shares? or Raymond V. Gilmartin and the rest of the board either?

Who cares? Microsoft's $150 million investment as a company was sold long ago.

MS's top brass if not nessarly thier company still owns quite a bit of Apple

Provide a shred of evidence for this claim.

Let me share somthing with you, EVERYONE does better than MS when it comes to secruity, Its like that old Southern Phrase to justfiy Assholes, At least he's better than Hitler!

Yes, but you completely ignored the magnitude of the difference, and the fact that Apple's commitment to security and fast response times is completely obvious. Compared to Microsoft, Apple is godly in terms of security, but they also stand well on their own.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-05 06:53pm

You can't take that one example and say it's true of the entire industry. Do you seriously think that shareware authors contact Apple asking for permission to write for their platform?

I was in close contact with those bums for a total of two hundred hours while working at Adobe, And I'll tell you this from personal experance, They WISH shareware writers did

It's about 30% on the overall hardware cost of a machine. This is well-known.

Another example Ram for MACs dispite no manjor super changes at the base level(Comparing PC to Mac only ram) they mark it up between twenty to fourty dollers to even insane prices at the high end, Example, a 512 Meg Stick of Ram, Apple wants 325$! for it, in the avarage market place those cost less than $100 and I know for a fact that Apple buys them for less than $50, So whats to justfiy 300% Markup? Another fine example are Video Cards in which the MAC Radeon 900 Retails for less than 100$ in some places and under 120$ even at your local best buy and they want 200$! for it

Just a few example, don't ask for more, there are few computer parts left

Bullshit. Apple actually embraces open standards, or didn't you notice that OS X
*Snip big list of things involing OS X

Did you not notice I asked BESIDES Os X? and also BEFORE

Who cares? Microsoft's $150 million investment as a company was sold long ago.

Say it with me. MAJORITY STOCK HOLDER, and HOSTILE TAKEOVER

The fact they have any stock to begin with in a compeater is enough to rase FCC's eybrows when the deal first went down and they are still keeping a eye on Bill because of those two things

Provide a shred of evidence for this claim.

I don't know why but for some Bizzare Reason there is no such thing as *Bills Online Stock Porfoilo

Yes, but you completely ignored the magnitude of the difference, and the fact that Apple's commitment to security and fast response times is completely obvious. Compared to Microsoft, Apple is godly in terms of security, but they also stand well on their own .

No I did not its woven in right at the being, At least he's not hitler admits some error in the past and also as has been Mac's Saving grace for quite some time there is simply not much intresting in cracking Mac software (We besides some of the extranious software like the MS Mac Version of Office and Adobe products

As the old anaolgy goes, On a clear spring day the gate may look fine and sturdy, but one the enemy is pounding on them, they can seem fragilier than the most delecate rose

Yes I completly made that one up

But it gets back to the main point, One can not simply place ten to fourty humans in close proximity and expect thier work to come out perfect
(No I'm not saying woe is MS just making a comparsion)
Or to use another anology
Every Polition is a Crook, some just arn't caught yet

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2002-10-05 07:21pm

I was in close contact with those bums for a total of two hundred hours while working at Adobe, And I'll tell you this from personal experance, They WISH shareware writers did

I'm not going to pretend that Apple (read: Steve Jobs) aren't complete dicks when it comes to some things, but they're not quite that bad. :D

Another example Ram for MACs dispite no manjor super changes at the base level(Comparing PC to Mac only ram) they mark it up between twenty to fourty dollers to even insane prices at the high end, Example, a 512 Meg Stick of Ram, Apple wants 325$! for it, in the avarage market place those cost less than $100 and I know for a fact that Apple buys them for less than $50, So whats to justfiy 300% Markup? Another fine example are Video Cards in which the MAC Radeon 900 Retails for less than 100$ in some places and under 120$ even at your local best buy and they want 200$! for it

It's "Mac," not "MAC." Shorthand does not equal an acronym. Anyway, Apple has no control over ATi's inflated pricing for graphics cards. However, the fact that Apple demands total control over the supply of nVidia Mac cards does piss many a Mac user off. Macs use standard PC133 and DDR RAM, though. There's no such thing as "Mac-only" RAM anymore. I bought a couple of 512MB DIMMs for my machine back when I first got it that would work perfectly in a PC. Hell, I sold my old RAM to a PC user and it worked flawlessly.

Just a few example, don't ask for more, there are few computer parts left

I'm not going to say that a lot of Mac hardware is disastrously over-priced when compared to the exact same thing on a PC (Hell, Mac users have bought PC GeForce 3's and flashed them and they work perfectly; they end up saving over $100).

Did you not notice I asked BESIDES Os X? and also BEFORE

Then why is it relevant?

Say it with me. MAJORITY STOCK HOLDER, and HOSTILE TAKEOVER

Say it with me, "Steve Jobs is Apple's majority stockholder."

<snip>

No I did not its woven in right at the being, At least he's not hitler admits some error in the past and also as has been Mac's Saving grace for quite some time there is simply not much intresting in cracking Mac software (We besides some of the extranious software like the MS Mac Version of Office and Adobe products

Untrue. Mac software is cracked regularly.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2002-10-05 08:45pm

Durandal wrote:
Another example Ram for MACs dispite no manjor super changes at the base level(Comparing PC to Mac only ram) they mark it up between twenty to fourty dollers to even insane prices at the high end, Example, a 512 Meg Stick of Ram, Apple wants 325$! for it, in the avarage market place those cost less than $100 and I know for a fact that Apple buys them for less than $50, So whats to justfiy 300% Markup? Another fine example are Video Cards in which the MAC Radeon 900 Retails for less than 100$ in some places and under 120$ even at your local best buy and they want 200$! for it
It's "Mac," not "MAC." Shorthand does not equal an acronym. Anyway, Apple has no control over ATi's inflated pricing for graphics cards. However, the fact that Apple demands total control over the supply of nVidia Mac cards does piss many a Mac user off. Macs use standard PC133 and DDR RAM, though. There's no such thing as "Mac-only" RAM anymore. I bought a couple of 512MB DIMMs for my machine back when I first got it that would work perfectly in a PC. Hell, I sold my old RAM to a PC user and it worked flawlessly.

I don't know how true this is, but apparently Apple buys its RAM at a fixed price for a contract, hence why it's so expensive at the moment. When it expires they can renegotiate prices.

EDIT: Bean, where did you find out how much Apple pays for RAM?

EDIT2: Also, marking up RAM prices heavily is fairly common in the computer industry - it isn't just Apple who does that.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-10-05 09:30pm

Say it with me, "Steve Jobs is Apple's majority stockholder."

Say it with me, thats not 51% Majority stockholder Jobs has less than thirty at last check

EDIT: Bean, where did you find out how much Apple pays for RAM?

EDIT2: Also, marking up RAM prices heavily is fairly common in the computer industry - it isn't just Apple who does that.

I used to work for Adobe and as I've said before I'm the hardware end mostly(Since getting out of Adobe that is, never like programing and picked up hardware side to fix my computer after the third time I had flung my computer monitor acoss the room for the Software not compling (The monitior was provided by Work, the Computer by me, they never caught onto the number of replacements I requested

)

Anyway back to the orgional point, as a memeber of Adobe I got to know abit about Mac even though I never worked for them directly and as of 2000 they where charging the same they do for today for memory though thier contract like most is a yearly one

Anyway I do happen to know Dell pays 42$ for its 512 meg sticks and that infos a month old...