Delta Flyer vs X-Wing

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Who wins ?

Delta Flyer
10
13%
X-Wing
70
88%
 
Total votes: 80

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Spanky The Dolphin
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Metrion Cascade wrote:Wait a minute. Have we ever even heard of those wingtip lasers firing off-axis? And X-wings don't exactly turn on a dime.

Delta Flyer, assuming it even sticks around. Although it bears mentioning that I don't think the DF is designed for a single person to pilot and operate the weapons. You might need Tuvok on the phasers to even make it a fight.
X-wing laser canons do fire off-axis, IIRC.

I don't know how manuverable X-wings are, but I do know that it's far more than the DF ever could be.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Wait a minute. Have we ever even heard of those wingtip lasers firing off-axis? And X-wings don't exactly turn on a dime.

Delta Flyer, assuming it even sticks around. Although it bears mentioning that I don't think the DF is designed for a single person to pilot and operate the weapons. You might need Tuvok on the phasers to even make it a fight.
X-wing laser canons do fire off-axis, IIRC.

I don't know how manuverable X-wings are, but I do know that it's far more than the DF ever could be.
If you don't know the former, you can't know the latter. You need both to make the comparison. Until you do, it's a toss-up where maneuverability is concerned. Where have we seen X-wings fire off-axis?
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Oh, so just because I'm not 100% sure of the first item, that means that I'm automatically wrong on the second?

You're debating is stunning. :roll:

Oh, and we've seen them fire off-axis in the films.
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Post by Slartibartfast »

We definitely see them firing off axis. In those shots the camera is fixed forward (we see the controls and metal bars etc) but the blasters always shoot at the target if it's in any part of the view.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

The fact that the shots often meet up in the center of FOV also automatically proves that they can fire off-axis, since otherwise they'd just go straight ahead.
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Post by Drach »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The fact that the shots often meet up in the center of FOV also automatically proves that they can fire off-axis, since otherwise they'd just go straight ahead.
While they may fire off axis this is not what would prove it. Even a P-51 Mustang in WWII had cannon fire converge because the cannon themselves were angles sligtly in
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Drach wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The fact that the shots often meet up in the center of FOV also automatically proves that they can fire off-axis, since otherwise they'd just go straight ahead.
While they may fire off axis this is not what would prove it. Even a P-51 Mustang in WWII had cannon fire converge because the cannon themselves were angles sligtly in
Except that the X-wing cannons are external and can be clearly seen to be pointed straight forward at a 90 degree angle.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh, so just because I'm not 100% sure of the first item, that means that I'm automatically wrong on the second?

You're debating is stunning. :roll:

Oh, and we've seen them fire off-axis in the films.
By off-axis, I mean other than forward.

And yes, you do need to know what "x" and "d" are, or have upper/lower limits, before you say "x">"d". You didn't say you weren't sure. You said you didn't know.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Metrion Cascade wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Oh, so just because I'm not 100% sure of the first item, that means that I'm automatically wrong on the second?

You're debating is stunning. :roll:

Oh, and we've seen them fire off-axis in the films.
By off-axis, I mean other than forward.
As do I.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The fact that the shots often meet up in the center of FOV also automatically proves that they can fire off-axis, since otherwise they'd just go straight ahead.
FOV? Field of view? You seriously think that them appearing to meet in the middle means they're not parallel? Ever heard of perspective? Take a photograph of a hallway, and the sides will all appear to point together. That doesn't mean they physically do. And why put the guns on the wingtips if they're just supposed to converge anyway?
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Post by Sarevok »

When have phasers ever been observed to be lightspeed? The bulk of the visual evidence would indicate that they are distinctly sublight.
Phasers may not be lightspeed but they travel very fast. In episodes where starships fire at planets the beams make to surface from orbit almost instantly.
Yes, DS9:"Jem'hadar" shows one of the runabout's firing and missing a Jemmie bug with a phaser beam, at point blank range, just before it rams the Odyssey.
That was exception. Most of the time Starfleet phasers do hit their targets.
However a more relevant question is; Can you provide a single example of a Starfleet vessel hitting a target the size of an X-wing capable of accelerating at several thousand Gs?
I admit my mistake. I almost forgot how agile X-Wings are. That combined with their ECM would make them very difficult to hit.
For those talking about phaser accuracy, remember: phasers can only hit what sensors can see and target. All SW combat craft, including fighters, are equipped with some kind of electronic warfare equipment. An X-wing's jamming system will reduce phaser accuracy.
Considering the fact that Federation sensors have zero percent jamming tolerance their accuracy will be drasticaly reduced.
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Metrion Cascade wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The fact that the shots often meet up in the center of FOV also automatically proves that they can fire off-axis, since otherwise they'd just go straight ahead.
FOV? Field of view? You seriously think that them appearing to meet in the middle means they're not parallel? Ever heard of perspective? Take a photograph of a hallway, and the sides will all appear to point together. That doesn't mean they physically do. And why put the guns on the wingtips if they're just supposed to converge anyway?
:roll:

We KNOW that they converge. Just because you don't doesn't mean that they don't.

Don't be so fucking dense.
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Post by Sarevok »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Durandal wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:The Delta Flyer has computer controlled lightspeed beam weapons. They can not be dodged. That could cause some problems for the X-Wing
Are you some kind of moron?
I've been wondering that myself about him for some time now.
I never said the Delta Flyer would lose infact I voted for the X-Wing. Here I was merely pointing out one advantage the Delta Flyer MIGHT have over the X-Wing. How does that make one into a moron ? Can you cite one example where I acted like one ?
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Post by Sarevok »

There has been a typo the above post should read :

I never said the Delta Flyer would lwin infact I voted for the X-Wing. Here I was merely pointing out one advantage the Delta Flyer MIGHT have over the X-Wing. How does that make one into a moron ? Can you cite one example where I acted like one ?
I have to tell you something everything I wrote above is a lie.
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Post by Mad »

Metrion Cascade wrote:Where have we seen X-wings fire off-axis?
Wedge's fighter in the Battle of Yavin from the SE. It's the close-in TIE kill to which Luke replies "Thanks, Wedge." The blasts fired that time were from a much different angle than blasts fired elsewhere by X-wings. This is proof that they can fire off-axis on-the-fly.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Mad wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Where have we seen X-wings fire off-axis?
Wedge's fighter in the Battle of Yavin from the SE. It's the close-in TIE kill to which Luke replies "Thanks, Wedge." The blasts fired that time were from a much different angle than blasts fired elsewhere by X-wings. This is proof that they can fire off-axis on-the-fly.
The SE?
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Special Edition.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:The fact that the shots often meet up in the center of FOV also automatically proves that they can fire off-axis, since otherwise they'd just go straight ahead.
FOV? Field of view? You seriously think that them appearing to meet in the middle means they're not parallel? Ever heard of perspective? Take a photograph of a hallway, and the sides will all appear to point together. That doesn't mean they physically do. And why put the guns on the wingtips if they're just supposed to converge anyway?
:roll:

We KNOW that they converge. Just because you don't doesn't mean that they don't.

Don't be so fucking dense.
HOW do you know they converge? Got a screenshot that rules out perspective? Another thread that proves it? Simply stating it is not an argument.
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Denial isn't an argument, either.

Common sense plus observation of canon material is proof enough for most reasonable people who can figure things out for themselves.

I've never been one to hold somebody else's hand.
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Post by Durandal »

Metrion Cascade wrote:Wait a minute. Have we ever even heard of those wingtip lasers firing off-axis? And X-wings don't exactly turn on a dime.
The X-Wing novels make it clear that the lasers have a convergence point.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Durandal wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Wait a minute. Have we ever even heard of those wingtip lasers firing off-axis? And X-wings don't exactly turn on a dime.
The X-Wing novels make it clear that the lasers have a convergence point.
Care to post an excerpt?
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Bolts fired at objects like TIEs and the DS surface are seen to converge, with the craft at distances such to eliminate the perspective effect of convergence.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Denial isn't an argument, either.

Common sense plus observation of canon material is proof enough for most reasonable people who can figure things out for themselves.

I've never been one to hold somebody else's hand.
Showing some evidence is not holding my hand. You're acting as if everyone has every film and novel memorized and already agrees with your interpretation. Point to your canon proof, or I can assume you never had any. Argue your point, or concede it.
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Post by Metrion Cascade »

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Bolts fired at objects like TIEs and the DS surface are seen to converge, with the craft at distances such to eliminate the perspective effect of convergence.
Where? Which film? Which battle?
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Post by Spanky The Dolphin »

Christ...

Star Wars - Episode IV: A New Hope

Battle of Yavin.
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