The official Revolutions DISCUSSION thread

[Hotfoot]

Ok I just read the first few pages of this thread and forgive me if no one has said this before, but have some of you just not been paying any fucking attention to the movie?!


"Smith call the Oracle mom"


No shit, watch Reloaded, " If I am the father of the matrix then she is definitely the mother."

And Smith hates human connections, so why would he even admit to identifying with them?

"They didn't explain what happened to Oracle and they just want me to buy the game"


IT DOESN'T EXPLAIN IT IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!! all that happens in the game is the oracle telling ghost and niobe that she paid a far greater price than she wanted, or some thing like that, just the same as in the movie. So for those who don't know what happened let me clue you in. The oracle was working with the architect, she betrayed him and he tried to destroy her, but only succeeded in destroying part of her. Its fairly obvious just from watching the movie.

Yes it does explain it in the game. The two programs we see at the beginning of Revolutions sold the deletion code to the Oracle's old shell to the Merovingian so that he would make their daughter safe by way of the trainman.

2) The very last part of the movie. They had just introduced the little girl, and it was an inappropriate character to end the movie on.

Her plot line had been introduced all the way back in Reloaded, and extrapolated on in Enter the Matrix. She is, quite possibly, the Machine's version of "The One", which is made apparent by her MAKING the sunrise.

[Darth Wong]

Ok I just read the first few pages of this thread and forgive me if no one has said this before, but have some of you just not been paying any fucking attention to the movie?!

Don't pull this "don't you get it" crap. As Maddox says, we got it. It's just that after we got it, we found that we didn't want it.

"Smith call the Oracle mom"

No shit, watch Reloaded, " If I am the father of the matrix then she is definitely the mother."[

"Seraph is called Judas"

Once again, no shit, since all the programs that escaped into the matrix to avoid being deleted are considered traitors then he probably would be considered a Judas.

"There was way to much psychobabble"

Well duh, if you watched the first two movies, and you didn't expect a bunch of psychobabble then your just a dumbass. Same goes for the mecha. They were shown in Reloaded, and if you didn't expect to see them then you weren't paying attention.

Why do you believe that showing these things in the second (also shitty) movie somehow makes the third movie's use of them OK?

"They should have just kept on detonating EMPs"

I think it was made clear enough in Revolutions by the general guy that they couldn't because 1) all of the EMPs were on ships and all of them were destroyed and 2) if they detonated even one EMP it would take out all of their own electronic equipment. After that happened the squides would attack in another wave, which is exactly what happened.

Let me explain this slowly for you:

1) You can restart a Zionist ship even after it's used its own EMP. Therefore, it does not permanently damage the electronics. In fact, you should be able to repeatedly use the same Zionist ship to get successive waves.

2) The systems in the main city were not damaged by the EMP in the docks. Therefore, the device obviously has limited range or its effects can be blocked by shielding. Either way, it means they can hold lots of EMP devices in reserve and then bring them out in order to shut down subsequent waves.

3) You are ignoring the plethora of other monstrous military tactical problems with Revolutions, all of which have been described on this board.

"They didn't explain what happened to Oracle and they just want me to buy the game"

IT DOESN'T EXPLAIN IT IN THE GAME!!!!!!!!! all that happens in the game is the oracle telling ghost and niobe that she paid a far greater price than she wanted, or some thing like that, just the same as in the movie. So for those who don't know what happened let me clue you in. The oracle was working with the architect, she betrayed him and he tried to destroy her, but only succeeded in destroying part of her. Its fairly obvious just from watching the movie.

Actually, there is more irritation at the storytelling gap between the end of Reloaded and the beginning of Revolutions, where Niobe's ship is lost and disabled for some unknown reason which is not even hinted at in Reloaded.

"I don't get what happened to Neo in the end"

Long story short, when Smith infected Neo, he past on all of his knowledge to Neo, including the places where all the other Smiths had infected. Neo was plugged into the head machine ( whatever the hell its called) so the machine then knew who was infected and destroyed the virus ( aka Smith.)

It's not a matter of not getting it; it's a matter of not liking it.

"No one was freed from the matrix"

Well duh not immediately. Did you expect that the second after Neo beat Smith that the machines would wake up several billion people? oh yeah that would be fun considering the fact that even Neo lost it when he found out that his whole life wasn't real.

Now you don't get it. If the machines are truly dependent on their human farms, they can't ever let them go. If the Zionists truly believe that all humans should be freed, they can't let the machines continue with the status quo. This is not a recipe for peace, yet the writers and the onscreen characters treated it as one.

I only had two problems with this movie-

1) Neo should have gotten it after the 50th time Bane said "Mr.Anderson"

No shit.

2) The very last part of the movie. They had just introduced the little girl, and it was an inappropriate character to end the movie on.

She should have become an Agent Smith Mini-Me. That would have made the ticket price more worthwhile (even though somebody else paid for mine).

You honestly don't see any other problems with the movie? The entire Battle of Zion was not indescribably stupid when you watched it? The pointless Dragonball Z fight between Smith and Neo was not boring and uninspired? The cryptic yet predictable dialogue was not irritating? You didn't get bored during Trinity's seemingly endless death-speech?

This movie was an insult to the audience's intelligence.

[Vympel]

Well duh, if you watched the first two movies, and you didn't expect a bunch of psychobabble then your just a dumbass.

So what? Just because one should expect it doesn't mean one should excuse it. Also, the original Matrix had hardly any of the pretentious babble in Reloaded.

ame goes for the mecha. They were shown in Reloaded, and if you didn't expect to see them then you weren't paying attention.

So what? Just because one should expect it doesn't mean one should excuse it. I knew there would be mechs, and when Reloaded came out we were saying how stupid it was from then.

[David]

And Smith hates human connections, so why would he even admit to identifying with them?

Sarcasm probably.

does explain it in the game. The two programs we see at the beginning of Revolutions sold the deletion code to the Oracle's old shell to the Merovingian so that he would make their daughter safe by way of the trainman.

It must have been at the end of the Niobe part then. I played through the Ghost part and it just mentioned what I said. I played through most of Niobe but my game was scratched and wouldn't play through.

Her plot line had been introduced all the way back in Reloaded, and extrapolated on in Enter the Matrix. She is, quite possibly, the Machine's version of "The One", which is made apparent by her MAKING the sunrise.

Where was she in Reloaded? I just watched it and she's no where in it. And why would you think she's the machine's version of "the One"? It doesn't mention that anywhere in Reloaded or Revolutions. If anyone was the machine's version it was Smith.

[Sea Skimmer]

Power them up with what exactly?

The power supply you've also protected. We've built stealth bombers that are EMP hardened, its not the ahrdest thing in the world to do.

So Zion's military should coat everything in copperwire? Copper wire doesn't ward off electricity it conducts electricity.

Which is why faraday cage's work, the EMP is absorbed and ground by the copper wiring, before it can reach the electronics inside. Though the stronger the EMP the denser the cage must be to the point of being solid.

The EMP emplacements themselfs can be easily and cheaply protected using unpowered gun mounts, a bunch of quad 20 or 25mm guns would work just fine against Sentinel's without needing a single electrical circuit.

[neoolong]

You see Sati's father in Reloaded. They even mention the exact scene in Revolutions.

[David]

Don't pull this "don't you get it" crap. As Maddox says, we got it. It's just that after we got it, we found that we didn't want it.

Go back and read through the first couple of pages, there are plenty of people saying how it was unclear to them what happened.

Why do you believe that showing these things in the second (also shitty) movie somehow makes the third movie's use of them OK?

The second and third movies are the same movie cut in half, so whatever is in the second will be in the third. As to it being shitty, that's your opinion, and since the second and third movies are the same movie, you shouldn't have gone to see it if you didn't like the first half.

1) You can restart a Zionist ship even after it's used its own EMP. Therefore, it does not permanently damage the electronics. In fact, you should be able to repeatedly use the same Zionist ship to get successive waves.

Assuming you can get the ship back online and charge the EMP before the machine's either send another wave or simply drop a bomb down the shaft.

2) The systems in the main city were not damaged by the EMP in the docks. Therefore, the device obviously has limited range or its effects can be blocked by shielding. Either way, it means they can hold lots of EMP devices in reserve and then bring them out in order to shut down subsequent waves.

3) You are ignoring the plethora of other monstrous military tactical problems with Revolutions, all of which have been described on this board.

The general in charge of Zion's defense obviously though it would be a bad idea, so either they didn't have enough EMPs in reserve to pull this off, or all the equipment wasn't sheilded, and since the general said that when Niobe's ship fired it's EMP that it knocked all their defenses off line, the second possibility is the more likely one.

Actually, there is more irritation at the storytelling gap between the end of Reloaded and the beginning of Revolutions, where Niobe's ship is lost and disabled for some unknown reason which is not even hinted at in Reloaded.

The DVD documentary on Reloaded says that the Bros wanted to put that in but had to cut it out due to how long the movie already was.

It's not a matter of not getting it; it's a matter of not liking it.

Well you can not like it all you want, its only your opinion.

Now you don't get it. If the machines are truly dependent on their human farms, they can't ever let them go. If the Zionists truly believe that all humans should be freed, they can't let the machines continue with the status quo. This is not a recipe for peace, yet the writers and the onscreen characters treated it as one.

It was appearant that the machines did not like it. As for the onscreen actors, the Zionists just knew that the war was over, not that the humans would be freed, and considering that they were about the be all killed, I think it gives them sufficient reason to celebrate. I saw the ending as a truce that would eventually work toward the release of the humans that wanted to go, and an eventual removal of the machines dependence on humans as a power source. I can't recall them ever saying it was peace, simply an end to the war.

She should have become an Agent Smith Mini-Me. That would have made the ticket price more worthwhile (even though somebody else paid for mine).

You honestly don't see any other problems with the movie? The entire Battle of Zion was not indescribably stupid when you watched it? The pointless Dragonball Z fight between Smith and Neo was not boring and uninspired? The cryptic yet predictable dialogue was not irritating? You didn't get bored during Trinity's seemingly endless death-speech?

This movie was an insult to the audience's intelligence.

Your opinion, and most certainly not mine. I know quite a few people that say the same about SW.

[David]

Well duh, if you watched the first two movies, and you didn't expect a bunch of psychobabble then your just a dumbass.

So what? Just because one should expect it doesn't mean one should excuse it. Also, the original Matrix had hardly any of the pretentious babble in Reloaded.

ame goes for the mecha. They were shown in Reloaded, and if you didn't expect to see them then you weren't paying attention.

So what? Just because one should expect it doesn't mean one should excuse it. I knew there would be mechs, and when Reloaded came out we were saying how stupid it was from then.

I'm assuming that you don't watch anime then. Why? becasue you know its going to have stuff you don't like in it. So why did you go see Matrix?

[Hotfoot]

And Smith hates human connections, so why would he even admit to identifying with them?

Sarcasm probably.

For what purpose? No, they were attempting to show that he had gone insane, and instead did a piss poor representation of the character.

does explain it in the game. The two programs we see at the beginning of Revolutions sold the deletion code to the Oracle's old shell to the Merovingian so that he would make their daughter safe by way of the trainman.

It must have been at the end of the Niobe part then. I played through the Ghost part and it just mentioned what I said. I played through most of Niobe but my game was scratched and wouldn't play through.

GHOST: Expectation. Can you tell me what happened to you?

ORACLE: Two programs that I trusted sold the termination code of my original shell to the Merovingian.

GHOST: Why did they do that?

ORACLE: For love, and for the life of their child.

GHOST: You knew about it, and yet you let it happen?

ORACLE: I had to.

GHOST: Why?

ORACLE: Because the child is important. I can't tell you why, but I believe that one day the child will change both our world and your world forever.

GHOST: Is that why you called for me?

ORACLE: No. I am trying to prepare those that stand in the front lines of our coming trial. We stand upon the edge of a precipice, the fall from which we will not return. Each of us must find courage when are are most afraid to do what me must. That is our only hope.

It's in both sections.

Her plot line had been introduced all the way back in Reloaded, and extrapolated on in Enter the Matrix. She is, quite possibly, the Machine's version of "The One", which is made apparent by her MAKING the sunrise.

Where was she in Reloaded? I just watched it and she's no where in it. And why would you think she's the machine's version of "the One"? It doesn't mention that anywhere in Reloaded or Revolutions. If anyone was the machine's version it was Smith.[/quote]Not her, her plot line. We see her father exiting the Merovingian's Resturant in Reloaded. That is the beginning of her plot line. That is then extrapolated on in Enter the Matrix, and more fully fleshed out in Revolutions.

Smith was the Anti-One. The AntiChrist to Neo's Second Coming. Sati is most likely the Machine's "One" given her control over the Matrix.

[David]

The power supply you've also protected. We've built stealth bombers that are EMP hardened, its not the ahrdest thing in the world to do.

Wow that would have been really exciting. Just like SW would have been exciting if the Death Star had simply broadsided the Rebel fleet with all its turbolasers.

Oh or the machines could have dropped a nuke down the shaft and simply annialated the Zionists, again very exciting. This is necessary to make somekind of scene where we see the good guys losing and somehow coming back to win. Anything else would be a fanboy wankfest.

The EMP emplacements themselfs can be easily and cheaply protected using unpowered gun mounts, a bunch of quad 20 or 25mm guns would work just fine against Sentinel's without needing a single electrical circuit.

They had plenty of guns, and they didn't stop the sentinels.

[Darth Wong]

Go back and read through the first couple of pages, there are plenty of people saying how it was unclear to them what happened.

I think they're talking about the muddled symbolism.

The second and third movies are the same movie cut in half, so whatever is in the second will be in the third. As to it being shitty, that's your opinion, and since the second and third movies are the same movie, you shouldn't have gone to see it if you didn't like the first half.

Irrelevant. You are attempting to refute criticisms of serious problems with Revolutions by saying that these problems were also in Reloaded. It does not refute the criticisms.

1) You can restart a Zionist ship even after it's used its own EMP. Therefore, it does not permanently damage the electronics. In fact, you should be able to repeatedly use the same Zionist ship to get successive waves.

Assuming you can get the ship back online and charge the EMP before the machine's either send another wave or simply drop a bomb down the shaft.

If the machines were smart enough to drop bombs down the shaft, there would have been no battle. They're obviously not that smart. And Trinity was able to restart her ship in just a few seconds after suffering the equivalent of an EMP (which fried all of the sentinels clinging onto it) when her ship went through the clouds. Maybe some ships get fried worse than others (which leads to the next question: where the fuck were all the ships?), but the chance that not a single ship can restart before the next wave appears (and I remind you that there was a considerable delay) is pretty much nil.

2) The systems in the main city were not damaged by the EMP in the docks. Therefore, the device obviously has limited range or its effects can be blocked by shielding. Either way, it means they can hold lots of EMP devices in reserve and then bring them out in order to shut down subsequent waves.

3) You are ignoring the plethora of other monstrous military tactical problems with Revolutions, all of which have been described on this board.

The general in charge of Zion's defense obviously though it would be a bad idea, so either they didn't have enough EMPs in reserve to pull this off, or all the equipment wasn't sheilded, and since the general said that when Niobe's ship fired it's EMP that it knocked all their defenses off line, the second possibility is the more likely one.

The fact that the general thought something does not make it correct. This guy was a fucking retard who did not even understand simple concepts such as fields of fire, prepping the battlefield, or even "stack the ammo near the weapon, instead of keeping it at a central depot".

The fact is that despite the general's bullshit, we know a Zionist ship can be restarted after being EMP'd, and we know that everything outside of the Docks area survived the EMP, so all they had to do was keep equipment just outside the Docks area.

In short, they could have used the innovative "close the door" tactic.

Actually, there is more irritation at the storytelling gap between the end of Reloaded and the beginning of Revolutions, where Niobe's ship is lost and disabled for some unknown reason which is not even hinted at in Reloaded.

The DVD documentary on Reloaded says that the Bros wanted to put that in but had to cut it out due to how long the movie already was.

How does that change the fact that it's a disjointed story as a result of this omission?

It was appearant that the machines did not like it. As for the onscreen actors, the Zionists just knew that the war was over, not that the humans would be freed, and considering that they were about the be all killed, I think it gives them sufficient reason to celebrate. I saw the ending as a truce that would eventually work toward the release of the humans that wanted to go, and an eventual removal of the machines dependence on humans as a power source. I can't recall them ever saying it was peace, simply an end to the war.

More like a brief respite. Sooner or later, the two sides have to recognize that their goals are incompatible. What are the machines going to do if the Zionists continue freeing more and more people, an activity which would skyrocket once they no longer have to fear combat with squidbots whenever they go hunting for new recruits?

You honestly don't see any other problems with the movie? The entire Battle of Zion was not indescribably stupid when you watched it? The pointless Dragonball Z fight between Smith and Neo was not boring and uninspired? The cryptic yet predictable dialogue was not irritating? You didn't get bored during Trinity's seemingly endless death-speech?

This movie was an insult to the audience's intelligence.

Your opinion, and most certainly not mine. I know quite a few people that say the same about SW.

I have presented numerous massive flaws in the military tactics of both sides. They go beyond mere tactical mistakes, and into the realm of outright insanity, and they are not mere opinions.

[Sea Skimmer]

Wow that would have been really exciting.

Yeah, I'd expect having the Sentinels come in actual waves, each time making more progress against the gun and EMP mounts before another EMP can be activated to kill that wave would have been far more exciting.

They had plenty of guns, and they didn't stop the sentinels.

And if they'd had twenty times as many they'd have proved rather more effective.

[Darth Wong]

The power supply you've also protected. We've built stealth bombers that are EMP hardened, its not the ahrdest thing in the world to do.

Wow that would have been really exciting. Just like SW would have been exciting if the Death Star had simply broadsided the Rebel fleet with all its turbolasers.

Palpatine wanted to deliberately draw out the battle so that he could turn Luke. What was the Zionists' motivation for letting the Sentinels kill them without putting up a fight, pray tell?

Oh or the machines could have dropped a nuke down the shaft and simply annialated the Zionists, again very exciting. This is necessary to make somekind of scene where we see the good guys losing and somehow coming back to win. Anything else would be a fanboy wankfest.

Wrong. They could have engaged the sentinels out in the tunnels instead of passively waiting for them to come to their door and hoping they'd be too stupid to do the job right. In those confines, the use of nukes would be prohibitive to both sides.

The EMP emplacements themselfs can be easily and cheaply protected using unpowered gun mounts, a bunch of quad 20 or 25mm guns would work just fine against Sentinel's without needing a single electrical circuit.

They had plenty of guns, and they didn't stop the sentinels.

Perhaps you should try reading that again. He's talking about using gun mounts to house EMP emplacements. Besides, they did not have that many guns. They had a squadron of APUs and a half-dozen guns mounted around their centre hub. For an entire civilization which can hollow out multi-kilometre sized cities deep underground and which has supposedly been at war for a hundred years, this is ridiculous.

[Hotfoot]

Oh or the machines could have dropped a nuke down the shaft and simply annialated the Zionists, again very exciting. This is necessary to make somekind of scene where we see the good guys losing and somehow coming back to win. Anything else would be a fanboy wankfest.

Dozens of hideously designed mechs shooting down hundreds or thousands of equally hideously designed flying squids while both sides use abysmal tactics in order to artifically prolong a scene and make it "cooler" doesn't qualify as a wankfest? There are tons of ways they could have made the final battle both plausable and dramatic. They just lacked the skill and drive to do so, and instead spent innumerable man-hours designing, building, and animating those hideous mechs.

They had plenty of guns, and they didn't stop the sentinels.

combine the guns, which don't require electronics, with EMP, and boom, we have a winnah. Guns knock out squiddies hell-bent on taking out the EMPs. The gradual losses would have come from the simply overwhelming numbers of squiddies (and the EMP shielded diggers-plot point so we can still get heavy infantry involved) slipping in and disabling the EMPs slowly, one-by-one, until there are only two left. The Hammer dives in, uses its EMP, only now the loss of the docks is due to the fact that with two entry points, the machines can now come in faster than ever before, utterly overwhelming the remaining EMPs. That way Lock has a real reason to bitch out the crew of the Hammer, rather than the piss-poor reason he had previously. In the chaos, some of the soldiers (perhaps Kid) mishear Lock's order (static, explosion, whatever) to NOT open the gate, open it anyway, and let in the Hammer. Fog of war and all.

Already the scene becomes a few thousand times better.

[David]

And if they'd had twenty times as many they'd have proved rather more effective.

They were in the docking area, which they expected that they would never have to defend, at least from an attack from the roof of the cavern. As they noted in the movie, the machines bypassed their main defenses.

which leads to the next question: where the fuck were all the ships?),

Destroyed by the sentinels after they were disabled by the EMP that Bane set off.


I'll get to the rest later. Right now I need to get some sleep so I cantake my Eukaryotic Cell test tomorrow.

[Darth Wong]

which leads to the next question: where the fuck were all the ships?),

Destroyed by the sentinels after they were disabled by the EMP that Bane set off.

They only had 6 ships?

[David]

Wrong. They could have engaged the sentinels out in the tunnels instead of passively waiting for them to come to their door and hoping they'd be too stupid to do the job right. In those confines, the use of nukes would be prohibitive to both sides.

They tried and died because Bane disabled their ships and the sentinels killed them all.

Perhaps you should try reading that again. He's talking about using gun mounts to house EMP emplacements. Besides, they did not have that many guns. They had a squadron of APUs and a half-dozen guns mounted around their centre hub. For an entire civilization which can hollow out multi-kilometre sized cities deep underground and which has supposedly been at war for a hundred years, this is ridiculous.

In their docking area which they did not expect to have to defend. Most of the defenses were in the tunnels which the machines bypassed. Perhaps you missed the first part of Reloaded where they pointed out that the machines were tunneling for precisely that reason?

[Sea Skimmer]

They were in the docking area, which they expected that they would never have to defend, at least from an attack from the roof of the cavern. As they noted in the movie, the machines bypassed their main defenses.

So they have all the APU's, and the guns on the control tower why? Clearly they did expect that they'd have to defend inside of the dock.

A bunch of cheep simple gun mounts that can be towed into position when needed would be appropriate regardless of how the machine enter, since once there through the gate they could fly all over the place.

[Sea Skimmer]

Perhaps you should try reading that again. He's talking about using gun mounts to house EMP emplacements.

I'm talking about having a bunch of shielded EMP units, and then having a bunch of unpowered guns to protect them in case the Sentinels attack again before another EMP is charged. Something like this would be ideal. And you could build dozens for the cost and resources of a single APU.

[Hotfoot]

which leads to the next question: where the fuck were all the ships?),

Destroyed by the sentinels after they were disabled by the EMP that Bane set off.

They only had 6 ships?

No, you have to read in between the lines. Here's the rundown:

Osiris: Destroyed Pre-Reloaded
Vigilant: Searching for the Neb Destroyed in Reloaded by Mini-Sent Bomb
Logos: Searching for the Neb
Neb: Out doing his Superman thing, Destroyed in Reloaded
Hammer: Sole Survivor of the failed attack

That's five right there. I'm not certain, but I think another ship bit the dust in Reloaded.

Mauser: An EMP was triggered before we could get in position.
Colt: 5 ships were instantly down.
Mauser: When the machines broke through, it wasn't a battle, it was a slaughter.

So from the EMP trigger, 5 ships were instantly disabled, presumably including the triggering ship. Given the range of the Hammer's EMP in Revolutions, I think it's safe to say that any remaining ships in the fleet would have been seriously affected by the attack and not operating at full capacity, thus being easy prey for the machines.

Even if this assumption is not true, it leaves us with a Pre-Reloaded fleet of 10 ships. Judging by the images of Zions docks, the upper level has 12 docking platforms (no doubt another cute little piece of symbolism). I don't know if there are lower docks or not, but if there are, it would bring the number to 24 or 36, presumably.

[Darth Wong]

Wrong. They could have engaged the sentinels out in the tunnels instead of passively waiting for them to come to their door and hoping they'd be too stupid to do the job right. In those confines, the use of nukes would be prohibitive to both sides.

They tried and died because Bane disabled their ships and the sentinels killed them all.

No, rather than take the fight to the enemy, they used the same tactics but in a different place: form up your forces into a tight little group and wait for them. Have these people never heard of the idea of spacing out your forces?

In their docking area which they did not expect to have to defend. Most of the defenses were in the tunnels which the machines bypassed. Perhaps you missed the first part of Reloaded where they pointed out that the machines were tunneling for precisely that reason?

Right, which gives them even more incentive to take the fight to them in the tunnels, since they can fall back and draw the enemy into their defenses.

[Darth Wong]

Perhaps you should try reading that again. He's talking about using gun mounts to house EMP emplacements.

I'm talking about having a bunch of shielded EMP units, and then having a bunch of unpowered guns to protect them in case the Sentinels attack again before another EMP is charged. Something like this would be ideal. And you could build dozens for the cost and resources of a single APU.

Ah, I see. Sorry about the confusion.

[D.Turtle]

IIRC, the EMP was activated before the ships got to their positions. This might count as an excuse as to why the ships weren't spaced and could therefore be hit by a single EMP - think of it as the EMP being activated while the ships were on their way to the place were they wanted to make their stand.

Doesn't change that Zion's "military" was less than pathetic.

And their "military" tactics were even worse.

Luckily for Zion the machines' "military" is even more pathetic than Zion's.

And the machines' "military" tactis are even worse than Zion's.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

For reference, here is the original, "armored" APU.
http://www.realmofconfusion.com/apu1.jpg

Jesus Christ, that's probably the first good view of the whole mech that I've had. If I were the W brothers, I'd be ashamed if that's all the art department could come up with... That thing's seriously ugly as sin.

Not to mention that the "armour" looks like it was just tacked on as an afterthought only to get removed again at the last minute.

Which was the first movie to do that? I think it was The Abyss, where they designed these specially faceplates for the diving suits so you could see the actors faces... I remember that from the specials.

As an aside, the cricital argument that the lights let us see the actors but prevents them from seeing always bugged me, since IIRC, the actors in The Abyss had no problem seeing their surroundings with the light on...

[Zac Naloen]

i would like to comment on the flaws of the zionists tactics.

This occured to me for some stupid reason this afternoon.

The general guy isn't actually a general, he has no real military training... zion has been around for 100 hundred years, started from scratch from a handful of people.

The only reason he is in charge is because he showed an aptitude for strategy... but does he have any military training beyond what is obviously a very basic arena, against a predictable enemy?

it is hinted at that previous machine attacks have been pretty much the same, meaning that they are likely to have a set "book" of tactics for dealing with them.

However this is obviously something different for them, he has to think on his feet, and formulate a plan to deal with it. With no formal training made up of years and years of advice from experienced military generals? not likely to be a very good plan and as such is inherintly (sp?) going to be flawed.

although, i doubt the wachowski brothers considered that anyways.