Survivor: Star Trek vs Star Wars

[Metrion Cascade]

It doesn't require backing; it's standard debate protocol. In versus debates, universal laws are assumed to be universal. That's why hyperdrive works in the Star Trek galaxy and warp drive works in the Star Wars galaxy. Similarly, Q still has his powers in the Star Wars galaxy and Jedi still have their powers in the Star Trek galaxy.

There's no proof that the Force is a universal or uniformly applicable law of physics even in its own universe. And nothing stops a person from making a hypothetical where Luke doesn't have his powers, or Q (once again) has been stripped of his by the Continuum.

Thus stripping Luke of his powers distinctly indicates that with all the power SW wins so easily that the opposing side has to procur limitation to see a chance of their side winning.

Might as well say I concede.

Hardly. The person who created the hypothetical could just as easily not include Luke. Or give the Trek team phaser rifles and Odo.

[Kuja]

Hardly. The person who created the hypothetical could just as easily not include Luke. Or give the Trek team phaser rifles and Odo.

Nice way of admitting they can't handle the initial scenario.

[Ted C]

It doesn't require backing; it's standard debate protocol. In versus debates, universal laws are assumed to be universal. That's why hyperdrive works in the Star Trek galaxy and warp drive works in the Star Wars galaxy. Similarly, Q still has his powers in the Star Wars galaxy and Jedi still have their powers in the Star Trek galaxy.

There's no proof that the Force is a universal or uniformly applicable law of physics even in its own universe. And nothing stops a person from making a hypothetical where Luke doesn't have his powers, or Q (once again) has been stripped of his by the Continuum.

Please show me some evidence that the Force isn't a universal law in Star Wars.

Please show me where I stated in the premise of this thread that Luke doesn't have his powers.

[Metrion Cascade]

It doesn't require backing; it's standard debate protocol. In versus debates, universal laws are assumed to be universal. That's why hyperdrive works in the Star Trek galaxy and warp drive works in the Star Wars galaxy. Similarly, Q still has his powers in the Star Wars galaxy and Jedi still have their powers in the Star Trek galaxy.

There's no proof that the Force is a universal or uniformly applicable law of physics even in its own universe. And nothing stops a person from making a hypothetical where Luke doesn't have his powers, or Q (once again) has been stripped of his by the Continuum.

Please show me some evidence that the Force isn't a universal law in Star Wars.

Please show me where I stated in the premise of this thread that Luke doesn't have his powers.

roflmao...oh yeah, it was you. I guess that settles it.

As for Wars, no proof is needed that the Force isn't universal. Proof is needed that it IS, since mind tricks don't work on some races, and its presence may be dependent on microorganisms that couldn't possibly have evolved everywhere at once.

[The Dude]

As for Wars, no proof is needed that the Force isn't universal. Proof is needed that it IS, since mind tricks don't work on some races, and its presence may be dependent on microorganisms that couldn't possibly have evolved everywhere at once.

The Force works on inanimate objects, fer Chrissake.

Not that there are many examples of this, except for rocks, X-Wings, blasters, lightsabers, heavy equipment, the roof and pillar in Dooku's hangar....

[The Dude]

Anyway, I'm not sure why you're still moaning about this; the OP clearly states Luke has all of his skills and abilities as of ROTJ. If you don't like the scenario, make your own.

[Ted C]

roflmao...oh yeah, it was you. I guess that settles it.

Have you seen me claiming that Luke is "all that" and an easy win for the Star War side (despite my numerous arguments with other people to minimize the expectations of Force effects)? I haven't even voted in the poll!

As for Wars, no proof is needed that the Force isn't universal. Proof is needed that it IS, since mind tricks don't work on some races, and its presence may be dependent on microorganisms that couldn't possibly have evolved everywhere at once.

Are you saying the Force can only affect creatures inhabited by symbiotic organisms called "midichlorians"? That would be odd, since it certainly affects rocks, droids, and heavy pieces of machinery.

Or are you suggesting that it can only exist in a galaxy where these midichlorians are widespread?

How does this argument refute the standard debating policy that "everyone's powers and technologies work normally unless stated otherwise"?

[Metrion Cascade]

roflmao...oh yeah, it was you. I guess that settles it.

Have you seen me claiming that Luke is "all that" and an easy win for the Star War side (despite my numerous arguments with other people to minimize the expectations of Force effects)? I haven't even voted in the poll!

As for Wars, no proof is needed that the Force isn't universal. Proof is needed that it IS, since mind tricks don't work on some races, and its presence may be dependent on microorganisms that couldn't possibly have evolved everywhere at once.

Are you saying the Force can only affect creatures inhabited by symbiotic organisms called "midichlorians"? That would be odd, since it certainly affects rocks, droids, and heavy pieces of machinery.

Or are you suggesting that it can only exist in a galaxy where these midichlorians are widespread?

How does this argument refute the standard debating policy that "everyone's powers and technologies work normally unless stated otherwise"?

I didn't present it to refute standard debating policy. If you say that the Force applies in this scenario, that makes it true. I presented it as an aside about the Wars universe itself. And why can't midichloridans exist in non-living objects? I'd say that they're either a byproduct or the cause of the Force, but that anything within the field they generate can be affected by it even if the object itself doesn't have any midichlorians on/in it.

[Ted C]

And why can't midichloridans exist in non-living objects?

Because they're described as symbiotic organisms. How can they be expected to have a symbiotic relationship with a rock?

I'd say that they're either a byproduct or the cause of the Force, but that anything within the field they generate can be affected by it even if the object itself doesn't have any midichlorians on/in it.

I don't think there's clear evidence that they're a byproduct or cause; all we have is a statistical correlation between midichlorian count and Force sensitivity. We don't know whether people are Force-sensitive because they have lots of midichlorians or they have lots of midichlorians because they're Force-sensitive.

[Durandal]

As for Wars, no proof is needed that the Force isn't universal. Proof is needed that it IS, since mind tricks don't work on some races, and its presence may be dependent on microorganisms that couldn't possibly have evolved everywhere at once.

Midichlorians are a means of communication with the Force. Obviously they need not be present in a system in order for that system to be influenced by the Force, since Jedi can throw inanimate objects.

Furthermore, since the weak-minded are especially vulnerable to the Force, it should not surprise us that Hutts, who are criminal masterminds and leaders, would be much more difficult to break.

See my post in your pissing and moaning thread.