Effect of subspace weapons on the Empire's warships

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-23 02:03am

Publius wrote:Assuming that subspace in Star Trek is the same phenomenon as subspace in Star Wars, then the use of subspace weaponry against Imperial warships would likely disrupt local communications and coordination, and disable some sensor equipment. However, as the Empire is not wholly reliant on subspace communications and subspace sensors, this would be a strategically minor consideration, as the Empire would retain its holowave, radiowave, and other non-subspace communications and sensor systems.

Let's not forget that the SW galaxy has had subspace technology for over 25,000 years. Who's to say that the Empire hasn't hardened their equipment against such attacks?

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-11-23 02:17am

Durandal wrote:Let's not forget that the SW galaxy has had subspace technology for over 25,000 years. Who's to say that the Empire hasn't hardened their equipment against such attacks?

Quite right. The use of subspace weaponry would be a tactical advantage at best, and even that would be of limited value. Strategically, it is insignificant, especially in light of the fact that the United Federation, ever scrupulous to adhere to its imbecilic arms and technology limitations treaties, does not even possess such weaponry.

PUBLIUS

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-23 02:24am

I think what we are all forgetting is that interstellar combat does not take place with Imperial warships. They show up in close orbit of any planet they're interested in, so combat invariably occurs in close proximity to a planet. Not only does this mean the presence of a gravity well which might interfere with subspace weapons (we've never seen one used in such conditions; we don't know how it would act), but it means that in all probability, any opportunity to use such a weapon would present grave risk to some Federation world over which the Imperial warships happen to be orbiting.

Do not impose Federation paradigms on Imperial warfare; the Feds have precisely zero chance of intercepting Imperial warships in interstellar space, before they're right on top of a Federation world.

Publius · Post by **Publius** » 2003-11-23 05:17am

Does the location of the engagement actually matter in this case, Mr. Wong? Subspace weaponry as seen in Insurrection most probably represents a minor threat to Imperial warships, regardless of whether the weapons are deployed in deep space or in orbit over a world. The weapons would be a mild strategic nuisance even if the United Federation had them and were willing to use them in any likely scenario.

PUBLIUS

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-11-23 07:46am

I'm not clear on what the hell happened in "Insurrection." Systems that we know generate a subspace field:

- the warp nacelles generate a warp field
- the impulse engines generate a subspace field for mass-lightening
- the computer uses subspace for faster processing
- the subspace radio, but presumably the field leaves with the transmission, and isn't present during radio silence

So the warp core shouldn't have been drawing the subspace tear - the impulse engines perhaps, but not the core and not the nacelles since they weren't at warp. I guess B&B are saying the core, for some reason, makes a stronger field than the impulse engines even when they're not at warp. So the fields on the ship at impulse are, in order of decreasing strength:

- the core (why?)
- the impulse engines
- the computer

Another design issue - why did they have to dump the core? Because they don't have an emergency shutdown? Or because the core was the only jettisonable field big enough to divert the tear from chasing the impulse engines? I favor the latter, because they were still worried about another attack even after dumping the core. This, of course, makes me wonder why they can't shutdown the impulse engines. Maybe they can, but doing so in the heat of battle was suicide.

My question - was the risk merely one of systems being disabled, or also one of physical damage to the ship?

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-23 10:50am

Shutting down the warp core in combat is suicidal as that would leave the starship without shields, propulsion and weapons. As the Voyger episode "Deadlock" showed without warp core power even life support would fail in a matter of 48 hours. Now due it's redundent design the Sovergein class Enterprise was able to maintain shields and weapons as well as impulse power even after losing it's warp core. But they were probobly running at greatly reduced strength using backup power.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-11-23 01:01pm

evilcat4000 wrote:Shutting down the warp core in combat is suicidal as that would leave the starship without shields, propulsion and weapons. As the Voyger episode "Deadlock" showed without warp core power even life support would fail in a matter of 48 hours. Now due it's redundent design the Sovergein class Enterprise was able to maintain shields and weapons as well as impulse power even after losing it's warp core. But they were probobly running at greatly reduced strength using backup power.

How is shutting the core down any more suicidal than dumping it completely? A shutdown core can be restarted. A dumped one can't be. And as you saw, they were able to mount an effective defense without it.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-11-25 12:24pm

Any ideas, what damage a subspace-weapon COULD do, if it doesn´t cause a warp-core to go boom and if there are no other ship-systems, that use subspace?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-11-25 01:59pm

FTeik wrote:Any ideas, what damage a subspace-weapon COULD do, if it doesn´t cause a warp-core to go boom and if there are no other ship-systems, that use subspace?

Well, the most powerful subspace reaction we know of is the Praxis explosion. All the way over in the Neutral Zone, it flung a Federation starship around like a leaf on a windy day.

The planet just next to the exploding moon suffered some depletion of ozone.

The phrase 'Precisely dick' comes to mind in answering your question.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-11-25 03:17pm

SirNitram wrote:
FTeik wrote:Any ideas, what damage a subspace-weapon COULD do, if it doesn´t cause a warp-core to go boom and if there are no other ship-systems, that use subspace?
Well, the most powerful subspace reaction we know of is the Praxis explosion. All the way over in the Neutral Zone, it flung a Federation starship around like a leaf on a windy day.

The planet just next to the exploding moon suffered some depletion of ozone.

The phrase 'Precisely dick' comes to mind in answering your question.

Praxis itself wasn't in very good shape.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2003-11-26 07:19am

Metrion Cascade wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Shutting down the warp core in combat is suicidal as that would leave the starship without shields, propulsion and weapons. As the Voyger episode "Deadlock" showed without warp core power even life support would fail in a matter of 48 hours. Now due it's redundent design the Sovergein class Enterprise was able to maintain shields and weapons as well as impulse power even after losing it's warp core. But they were probobly running at greatly reduced strength using backup power.
How is shutting the core down any more suicidal than dumping it completely? A shutdown core can be restarted. A dumped one can't be. And as you saw, they were able to mount an effective defense without it.

You misunderstood me. My point was shutting down the warp core while in combat is not a good thing. Dumping the warp core is even an worse idea. I agree that they should have shutdown the warp core instead of dumping it.

It seems that Federation warp cores are highly unstable and can not be shut down easily. In "Contagion" it was revealed that even with the warp core inoperational there would still be enough anti-matter left in the pipes to destroy the ship.