Fear My SW Ignorance!

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-11-21 01:51am

Ok, since i don't have access to any of the films and frequently go half a year or more between viewings, what is this whole Greedo shooting first thing about?

It was difficult to admit that, i hope you understand.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-21 01:54am

In the theatrical version of Star Wars, Han shoots Greedo first in the Mos Eisley cantina.

In the Special Edition, the scene was adjusted so that Greedo squeezes off a round at Han, but misses and hits the wall, before Han fires and kills him.

Exonerate · Post by **Exonerate** » 2003-11-21 01:55am

In the original, Greedo didn't shoot first, he got shot pre-emptively by Han. Later, Lucas changed it so that Greedo shot, but missed, then having Han shoot...

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2003-11-21 01:56am

In the Original movies, Greedo and Han were in a booth, and Han shot him.
In the SE versions, Greedo shoots, misses, and Han kills him.

thats the change, IIRC

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-11-21 01:56am

So this angers everyone because...?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-21 01:56am

It changes the characterization of Han.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-11-21 02:01am

Have you read the Q&A with Lucas thing? It says that Greedo shooting first was an editting error!!!

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-21 02:01am

Dorsk 81 wrote:Have you read the Q&A with Lucas thing? It says that Greedo shooting first was an editting error!!!

No, that HAN shooting first in the original version was an error.

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-11-21 02:06am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Dorsk 81 wrote:Have you read the Q&A with Lucas thing? It says that Greedo shooting first was an editting error!!!
No, that HAN shooting first in the original version was an error.

Sorry, typo.

Shinova · Post by **Shinova** » 2003-11-21 02:12am

Yeah. It makes Han more into the stereotypical, won't shoot first cause I'm a hero type persona. He's a smuggler, he'd willingly break laws and put away a few people if it means he'll get paid in the end. The special edition kinda lessens that.

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-11-21 02:18am

Rye wrote:So this angers everyone because...?

In the original, Han comes off as a dangerous "don't fuck with me" smuggler, who might or might not turn on the heroes if the opportunity arises. Of course, we later learn that yes, he has an amount of decency in him.

Greedo shooting first erases that.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-11-21 02:19am

Kuja wrote:
Rye wrote:So this angers everyone because...?
In the original, Han comes off as a dangerous "don't fuck with me" smuggler, who might or might not turn on the heroes if the opportunity arises. Of course, we later learn that yes, he has an amount of decency in him.

Greedo shooting first erases that.

Ahh, i see. Well that's that then. Thanks all.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-11-21 02:23am

Question: How does a seasoned bounty hunter like Greedo miss from less than a meter away?

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-21 02:25am

It wouldnt be so bad if the SFX in the new version werent so horrible. They digitally shift Han and it looks like those South Park cutouts the way it jerkily moves, like he had some spasm.

And that ignores the fact that HAN DODGED A LAZER BEING FIRED LESS THAN TWO FEET FROM HIS FACE!!! HOW CAN GREEDO NOT ONLY MISS A SHOT FROM ACROSS A TABLE, BUT HAN SOMEHOW DODGES IT AS WELL??

The biggest flaw of course is that the character arc was ruined. Han was a cold, mercenary. His actions were justified of course--Greedo was going to kill him right there--but Han went from a Cantina-brawling smuggler (who shoots an assassin without blinking an eye and then flips the bartender some coins for his trouble) to a heroic rebel. Now its just kinda like he didnt really mean to kill anyone. He was a badass and he was cool, but now he's...less badass and less cool. Its just a really pointless change, that not only is detrimental to the character, story and tension of the scene, but it is executed so sloppily and laughably fake that it is completly distracting. People always go "WTF was that? did the film get fucked up in that shot or something? Is Han having an exorcism??".

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-11-21 08:14am

Plus it ruins the effect of Han's line (Which In the special edition, it actually changes accents, if you listen. What I mean is, originally Han says it like this:

Greedo: I've been waiting for this a long time.

Han: YEES, i'llbetchuhave.

In the special edition it's more like:

Han: I'll BET you haave.

So they must have used completely different cuts for that scene, right?
At any rate, removing the Smart-assedness from Han's Line is not very cool, and, not be be a me-tooer, but it does severely detract from his initial character development.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-11-21 11:58am

Rye wrote:Ok, since i don't have access to any of the films and frequently go half a year or more between viewings, what is this whole Greedo shooting first thing about?

It was difficult to admit that, i hope you understand.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-11-21 12:34pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:In the theatrical version of Star Wars, Han shoots Greedo first in the Mos Eisley cantina.

In the Special Edition, the scene was adjusted so that Greedo squeezes off a round at Han, but misses and hits the wall, before Han fires and kills him.

Wasn't he aiming for hans hand? Han had his one hand up on the wall while the other readied his blaster then when greedo shot hand whipped his hand down and the bolt hits the wall then blasts him with dl-44 in his other hand.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-11-21 12:39pm

No, he was aiming for the spot on the wall to the right of Han's head.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-21 01:58pm

The Kernel wrote:Question: How does a seasoned bounty hunter like Greedo miss from less than a meter away?

Greedo was not a seasoned bounty hunter, he was a punk with a gun who wanted to be a badass bounty hunter. It's clear from the way everyone treats him that he's not a real bounty hunter.

And of course the Tales confirm that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-11-21 08:48pm

Stormbringer wrote:
The Kernel wrote:Question: How does a seasoned bounty hunter like Greedo miss from less than a meter away?
Greedo was not a seasoned bounty hunter, he was a punk with a gun who wanted to be a badass bounty hunter. It's clear from the way everyone treats him that he's not a real bounty hunter.

And of course the Tales confirm that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Even if he was Dingus the Wonder Clown he should still be able to hit at that distance. Heck, my grandmother could make that shot blindfolded.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-21 08:55pm

The Kernel wrote:Even if he was Dingus the Wonder Clown he should still be able to hit at that distance. Heck, my grandmother could make that shot blindfolded.

Hey, I'm with you on that, the whole sequence is stupid. But "seasoned bounty hunter" and Greedo are total opposites.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-22 02:03am

You'd think with eyes that big he be a better marksman. Fuck being a seasoned bounty hunter, anyone could pull off that shot--he had his arm directly aimed at Han, all he had to do was pull the trigger. He must have sneezed or something.

Wait a minute--is this irrefutable proof that Star Wars does indeed take place inside the Matrix and that Han is The One??? Neo can dodge bullets, Han can dodge lazers!!

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-22 02:49pm

zombie84 wrote:You'd think with eyes that big he be a better marksman. Fuck being a seasoned bounty hunter, anyone could pull off that shot--he had his arm directly aimed at Han, all he had to do was pull the trigger. He must have sneezed or something.

More likely he was so shit scared and twitchy that he totally botched the shot.

Demiurge · Post by **Demiurge** » 2003-11-23 02:01pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Rye wrote:Ok, since i don't have access to any of the films and frequently go half a year or more between viewings, what is this whole Greedo shooting first thing about?

It was difficult to admit that, i hope you understand.
http://www.hisdivineshadow.com/misc/ima ... doshot.gif

Is that a Spider-man thing? I think I've seen that before.

"How do I shot web"

Am I right?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-11-23 04:37pm

Yeah, it's the spider thing.

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