What would happen if the Yuuzhan Vong invaded Star Trek?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2003-11-23 05:17pm

Before I make this post, let me say that this is not a "me too" post, I'm really wondering about this.

Okay, heres the scenario:

Instead of invading the Star Wars galaxy, what would have happened if the Yuuzhan Vong had invaded the Milky Way instead (and Q hadn't helped out)?

Yuuzhan Vong tech is so different than conventional, the Borg might have some serious trouble against them. On the other hand, is it possible that the Borg's nanoprobes might be able to assimilate a Vong ship, since it is alive? If the Borg assimilated a Yammosk they could wreak havoc on Vong formations- however, on the same note, if Borg drones invaded a Vong ship or vice versa, amphistaffs would have a field day as the Vong ran around cleaving Borg into chunks. If a single Vong warrior was on a Borg Cube with his full complement of thud bugs and armour and his amphistaff, he could probably take out most if not all of the ship. The Borg's little injectors probably wouldn't be able to get through the Vonduun crab armour, and the Borg can't adapt to physical objects, so the Vong's weapons would be unstoppable.

If the Vong invaded the Federation, we know that the Vong are practically impervious to stun blasts, so widebeam stun wouldn't work, and widebeam kill would have practicly no effect, spread across their super-strong armour. They'd probably thank the redshirts for warming them up, then kill them.

Due to the sad accuracy of phasers (watch Gambit part 1...rofl), its unlikely that the redshirts could hit the Vong in their armour's small weak points at the joints and armpits. Though Riker and Picard would probably do it.

In ship combat, would the Vong be able to strip shields from Star Trek ships easily, or would it be impossible? Since ST shields are so different from SW, its hard to know. Since phasers seem to move faster than TLs, would the Vong be able to put their voids in front of the phasers in time? Since photons make bigger explosions (not more powerful, just bigger, thanks to the nature of antimatter), would it be more difficult to block proximity photons, or would they be too spread out to do any real damage anyway? How effective would the globs of plasma fired by Vong ships be against Federation shields?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-11-23 05:21pm

Ship combat: vong no have sheilds. Beam torp into vong ship. Boom!! Bye bye vong capital ships.

Vong will win eventually but it'll cost them a lot.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-23 05:24pm

Crazedwraith wrote:Ship combat: vong no have sheilds. Beam torp into vong ship. Boom!! Bye bye vong capital ships.

Vong will win eventually but it'll cost them a lot.

Caveat I have not read a single novel of the NJO but I have read about their doven basils whoch seem to generate a strong gravity field (IIRC approaching black hole levels) so how will the Feds beam through that kind of gravimetric intereference?

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-11-23 05:26pm

Stravo wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Ship combat: vong no have sheilds. Beam torp into vong ship. Boom!! Bye bye vong capital ships.

Vong will win eventually but it'll cost them a lot.
Caveat I have not read a single novel of the NJO but I have read about their doven basils whoch seem to generate a strong gravity field (IIRC approaching black hole levels) so how will the Feds beam through that kind of gravimetric intereference?

Has strong gravity been a problem for transporters in the past? Sheesh those things can be rendered useless by just about anything.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-23 05:26pm

Stravo wrote:Caveat I have not read a single novel of the NJO but I have read about their doven basils whoch seem to generate a strong gravity field (IIRC approaching black hole levels) so how will the Feds beam through that kind of gravimetric intereference?

Gravimetric interference? Treknobabble alert! Code red!!!

Trek transporters couldn't deal with the "bio-electric" fields of Species 8472, and Species 8472 doesn't generate micro-singularities to defend themselves. I'd say it's doubtful that Trek transporters could do anything to the Vong at all. Frankly, given all of the things that affect Trek transporters, their ability to do something useful in combat should be considered an extreme exception rather than the rule.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-11-23 05:34pm

Darth Wong wrote: Gravimetric interference? Treknobabble alert! Code red!!!

FUCK....I've been writing Trek technobabble to the point where it's become second nature for me.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-11-23 05:48pm

Problem is 'Vong Dovin Basal singularities' are EXTREMELY localaized, as in less then a meter in diameter, with no noticable effect beyond that accept in large numbers.

Hell, by adjusting the acceleration compensator on there ships, the New Republic was able to offset the affect of a Dovin Basal on shields

Also, you have to remember, the 'swiss army deflector's could just (technobabble) generate a Anti-graviton pulse to disperse the gravimetric distortions. (end technobabble)

That being said, would the Federation thing to use the transporter like that?

Anyway, as far as the Borg vs the Vong go
Man, that would be war to watch. The Borg would probably drool at all the nice Vong biotechnology (imagine a Vong Dovin basal shot taking a Species 8472 bioship blast), including there lovely array of biological weapons like that plague that wiped out Ithor in minutes.

The Vong on the other hand, would see the Borg, scream 'abomination's!' and go insane fighting them.

If the Vong hit the Borg first, The Borg would probably be wiped out and the Vong would be in a very weakened position.

Also, knowing the Borg, they'd probably try to get Species 8472 into the war against the Vong by opening a singularity into fluidic space, going there with a Vong worldship on there ass. 8472 scans the Vong, the Vong scan them. Vong Yammosk senses technology. Vong open fire. Species 8472 retalites.

Man, the Vong invading Star Trek would get very very very violent once they hit Borg space.

Then again, the Borg apparently have nothing against WMD. I could see them setting a trap at a fake Unimatrix 1, letting the Vong fleet charge in, and then blowing up a star to deal with main part of the Vong fleet.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-11-23 05:58pm

Solauren wrote:Problem is 'Vong Dovin Basal singularities' are EXTREMELY localaized, as in less then a meter in diameter, with no noticable effect beyond that accept in large numbers.

Hell, by adjusting the acceleration compensator on there ships, the New Republic was able to offset the affect of a Dovin Basal on shields

Also, you have to remember, the 'swiss army deflector's could just (technobabble) generate a Anti-graviton pulse to disperse the gravimetric distortions. (end technobabble)

That being said, would the Federation thing to use the transporter like that?

Yep Voyager did it to a borg scount in "Dark Frontier"[/quote]

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-11-23 06:03pm

Stravo wrote:
Darth Wong wrote: Gravimetric interference? Treknobabble alert! Code red!!!
FUCK....I've been writing Trek technobabble to the point where it's become second nature for me.

*Drags Savro to the SD.Net deprogramming centre.*

You'll thank me eventually!

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2003-11-23 06:09pm

Solauren wrote: Also, knowing the Borg, they'd probably try to get Species 8472 into the war against the Vong by opening a singularity into fluidic space, going there with a Vong worldship on there ass. 8472 scans the Vong, the Vong scan them. Vong Yammosk senses technology. Vong open fire. Species 8472 retalites.

I agree with everything in your post, except for the quoted paragraph.

1) The Borg have no creativity whatsoever. They just assimilate. I can't imagine them trying to maneuver the Vong into getting in a war with someone else.

2) Species 8472 uses biotech. The Vong think its their job to declare a holy war on everyone using machines, and to cleanse their promised galaxy of machines. If their promised galaxy is the Milky Way instead of the Star Wars galaxy, why would they really care about fluidic space? And additionally, if Species 8471 doesn't use machines, and just uses biotech like the Vong, the Vong will probably leave them alone at least until they've wiped out all machine users.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-11-23 07:24pm

Well, the Feddies are still able to beam people down onto planets. So they're probably able to deal with limited gravimetric effects.

Solauren · Post by **Solauren** » 2003-11-23 11:54pm

Praxis wrote: 1) The Borg have no creativity whatsoever. They just assimilate. I can't imagine them trying to maneuver the Vong into getting in a war with someone else.

True, but the Queen has shown some creativity. also, they might have learned that as a trick from Voyager's assistance with 8472. Just a thought to get 8472 involved anyway

Praxis wrote: 2) Species 8472 uses biotech. The Vong think its their job to declare a holy war on everyone using machines, and to cleanse their promised galaxy of machines. If their promised galaxy is the Milky Way instead of the Star Wars galaxy, why would they really care about fluidic space? And additionally, if Species 8471 doesn't use machines, and just uses biotech like the Vong, the Vong will probably leave them alone at least until they've wiped out all machine users.

Two Reasons
1- They use Organic and in-organic technology. i.e the habitat simulations, the circuits and so forth we saw inside the Bioship in the first episode that Species 8472 was in. The Vong would find that INCREDIBLE offensive. I mean, living tissue with inorganic abomlinations attached?

That in itself would be a reason to fight Species 8472. I mean, that would be the ultimate sin to the Vong

2- I can see a Vong priest declaring Fludic space there dieties blood, and it must be purified.

Also, you don't think that Species 8472 wouldn't go on the warpath as a preemptive measure? The Vongs are killers, pure and simple

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-11-24 12:25am

The question as to whether or not Vong hulls can be beamed through depends on wheteher it typically contains elements that interfere and if they are thin enough to beam through I guess. Basic hulls are weaker then the standard metal hulls in SW, but when they started assimilating SW building materials into the mix, the resulting materials could survive the destruction of a planet. On top of that the things are implied to be mostly solid as opposed to the 10% or less solidity of standard ships. Course that could be due to manning restraints rather then space, but I suspect the density approach because it also fits with their hulls being weaker but still good.

The Vong will come in sufficient numbers to overwhelm most other races. They will have problems with the borg based on the fact that Tsavong Lah fanatically uses sheer attrition to win battles in cases when withdrawing would be best. This means that a victory (which I beleive would be the case there eventually) would leave them in a position where they would be unable to strike against powers such as the Dominion or even the AQ alliance for some time. If Nas Chokta commanded the fleet against the borg, or even Lah's father, I suspect it would not be as difficult, but as the Borg are the strongest enemy, I don't think that would be the case.

And they would declare war on the 8's by virtue of the fact that they don't believe in the gods if nothing else.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2003-11-24 09:56am

What examples are there of Fed ships dealing with black holes (if that's what the Vong use - I'm not wholly sure)? That I can remember:

- species 8472 used them to enter and leave their realm, without the Voyager crew worrying about the singularities themselves
- Voyager was modified to travel through the same singularities to attack Species 8472
- the Hirogen telecom relays were singularity-powered, but these singularities became a threat to the ship if the relay was destroyed
- the Romulans use singularities to power their ships, and Romulan ships were destroyed alongside Fed ships in the Dominion war - were the exposed singularities a problem?

How varied can the gravitational fields of black holes be? Why are some dangerous and others not? And "gravimetric" just seems to be their term for gravitational. What examples are there of singularities affecting transporters, or transporters working near them?

Not saying the Feds could beat the Vong, since I've not read any of the books involving them, but just trying to provide info.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-24 10:10am

Metrion Cascade wrote:What examples are there of Fed ships dealing with black holes (if that's what the Vong use - I'm not wholly sure)? That I can remember:

- species 8472 used them to enter and leave their realm, without the Voyager crew worrying about the singularities themselves
- Voyager was modified to travel through the same singularities to attack Species 8472

That was a case of bad terminology. Those portals were not singularities. If I recall correctly, they were wide, like a big mouth in space. A singularity is a point by definition. No width, no height.

- the Hirogen telecom relays were singularity-powered, but these singularities became a threat to the ship if the relay was destroyed

I recall that they barely escaped, even though they were well outside its event horizon.

- the Romulans use singularities to power their ships, and Romulan ships were destroyed alongside Fed ships in the Dominion war - were the exposed singularities a problem?

There were no exposed singularities. A low-mass singularity like that will explode in a burst of gamma rays under normal conditions, so as soon as the artificial device used to sustain it failed, it would have blown up.

How varied can the gravitational fields of black holes be? Why are some dangerous and others not?

It's a function of mass.

And "gravimetric" just seems to be their term for gravitational.

Of course. The writers just think it sounds more technical, and the fans go along with it. It annoys me because it's stupid. It's like their irritating habit of using the word "photonic" instead of "light".

What examples are there of singularities affecting transporters, or transporters working near them?

Most of the examples of transporters not working involve heavy metals or electromagnetic interference. The event horizon of a singularity produces extremely heavy electromagnetic interference (much heavier than the atmospherical electrical storms that have stymied transporters in the past). I'm not sure what precedents there are for gravitational problems.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2003-11-24 11:00am

If I remember correctly...(sometimes its hard to place the right technobabble with the right episode...)
There was an episode of Deep Space Nine where Martok took 5 Birds of Prey on a blitzkreig of Dominion Territory. They damaged a Cardy Starbase but lost a ship in the proccess, and all the ships got heavy damage because Kor took over the ship when Martok got injured and went half insane, thinking he was in a different battle.

All 4 BOP's got away at warp, but all 4 were really damaged.

As they are heading back to rendezvous with the Defiant, they spot TEN Jem'Hadar fighters following them, despite the fact that they're cloaked, and the Jem'Hadar are scanning them with some sort of tachyon beam.

After a bunch of dramatic dialogue, Kor takes one of the BOP's and attacks the Jem'Hadar (btw- he has to drop out of warp to turn around...I've gotta remember that for ST vs SW arguements

), and just as his ship reaches the Jem'Hadar fleet at warp, he has his ship generate a graviton pulse.

According to the technobabble, a single BOP could generate a big enough graviton pulse to disable the warp drives of the Jem'Hadar for two minutes.

We're talking about a tiny BOP here...i can only imagine what the Vong could do. I can just see it- Enterprise powers up warp drive, only to be latch onto with a gravity beam, overloading the warp drive. Vong ship starts hurling balls of plasma at Enterprise.

This would mean that if a Vong ship wants to retreat, it can hit everyone with a 'gravitron pulse' and run, and no one can follow.

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2003-11-24 11:08am

Solauren wrote:
True, but the Queen has shown some creativity. also, they might have learned that as a trick from Voyager's assistance with 8472. Just a thought to get 8472 involved anyway

True...but the queen doesn't always get involved, so we can't know for sure. She usually just sits around complaining that Voyager should get out of Borg space.

Solauren wrote:

Two Reasons
1- They use Organic and in-organic technology. i.e the habitat simulations, the circuits and so forth we saw inside the Bioship in the first episode that Species 8472 was in. The Vong would find that INCREDIBLE offensive. I mean, living tissue with inorganic abomlinations attached?

Didn't know that. Yeah, the Vong would find it incredibly offensive- but the SECOND most offensive thing in the universe.
Species 8472 ships are *mostly* organic with inorganic abominations attached. On the other hand, the Borg are now "more machine than man" in the words of obi-wan...the Vong would probably go utterly insane.

Even the Borg Queen's BRAIN is robotic!

That in itself would be a reason to fight Species 8472. I mean, that would be the ultimate sin to the Vong

2- I can see a Vong priest declaring Fludic space there dieties blood, and it must be purified.

true...

Also, you don't think that Species 8472 wouldn't go on the warpath as a preemptive measure? The Vongs are killers, pure and simple

Species 8472 are cowards. They went around blowing up planets, but as soon as Voyager came by and killed HALF A DOZEN of them they got afraid and ran with their tail between their legs back to fluidic space.

Oh yeah, and Stravo:
You know you're a Trekkie when:
You can say "gravimetric interference" in a sentence without excessive thought

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-11-24 02:28pm

Don't the Vong have their Vongsabers?

Praxis · Post by **Praxis** » 2003-11-24 03:31pm

amphistaffs- snakelike staffs with energy-producing cells allowing them to resist lightsaber strikes, and ultra sharp edges (i believe one book said that the edge was one atom thick) capable of cutting through just about anything...

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-11-24 04:01pm

Praxis wrote: After a bunch of dramatic dialogue, Kor takes one of the BOP's and attacks the Jem'Hadar (btw- he has to drop out of warp to turn around...I've gotta remember that for ST vs SW arguements ), and just as his ship reaches the Jem'Hadar fleet at warp, he has his ship generate a graviton pulse.

We've seen the USS Phoenix turn while in warp without having to drop out. Which means either;

1 - Klingon warp technology is not as advanced as Federation

2 - Using the pulse is not advisable at warp speeds

3 - Kor wanted to decrease the amount of time before intercept.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-11-24 04:06pm

Praxis wrote: Species 8472 are cowards. They went around blowing up planets, but as soon as Voyager came by and killed HALF A DOZEN of them they got afraid and ran with their tail between their legs back to fluidic space.

Yeah they can be considered cowards. However, what do you think would happen if say an X-Wing blew up a SSD with one shot?

Basically what happened is an ant became a lion.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-24 06:17pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:We've seen the USS Phoenix turn while in warp without having to drop out. Which means either;

1 - Klingon warp technology is not as advanced as Federation

2 - Using the pulse is not advisable at warp speeds

3 - Kor wanted to decrease the amount of time before intercept.

How many degrees of rotation did it go through, and what was its turning circle?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-24 06:18pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Praxis wrote:Species 8472 are cowards. They went around blowing up planets, but as soon as Voyager came by and killed HALF A DOZEN of them they got afraid and ran with their tail between their legs back to fluidic space.
Yeah they can be considered cowards. However, what do you think would happen if say an X-Wing blew up a SSD with one shot?

Irrelevant analogy. A Species 8472 bioship has a crew of just one pilot. It's a one-man fighter, and is hardly equivalent to a capital ship carrying hundreds of thousands of people.

Basically what happened is an ant became a lion.

Basically what happened is that one ant was killed by another ant, and all of his buddies ran away screaming. They could have easily killed Voyager, but they were too gutless to even try.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-11-24 07:00pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:We've seen the USS Phoenix turn while in warp without having to drop out. Which means either;

1 - Klingon warp technology is not as advanced as Federation

2 - Using the pulse is not advisable at warp speeds

3 - Kor wanted to decrease the amount of time before intercept.
How many degrees of rotation did it go through, and what was its turning circle?

All that was seen was the USS Phoenix make a turn, not a very tight one either. That episode just proves that starships can turn at warp.

Actually, going back to "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Arsenal of Freedom" Enterprise drops out of warp and then turns around, perhaps they do in fact need to drop out of warp to turn around 180 degrees.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-24 07:02pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:All that was seen was the USS Phoenix make a turn, not a very tight one either. That episode just proves that starships can turn at warp.

The problem is that a turn in warp is typically shown from a camera which is moving along with the ship in warp, so it's impossible to tell just how large it is. For all you know, it's a fraction of a degree and the camera is just panning.

Actually, going back to "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Arsenal of Freedom" Enterprise drops out of warp and then turns around, perhaps they do in fact need to drop out of warp to turn around 180 degrees.

Or, at least, in order to do so in a reasonable amount of time.