DIE ENGLAND, DIE DIE DIE

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-23 09:33pm

http://www.sundayherald.com/38268

By Diplomatic Editor Trevor Royle

The Black Watch, the Royal Scots and the King's Own Scottish Borderers could be disbanded under a proposal being considered by the Ministry of Defence.

The MoD is to publish a White Paper within the next two weeks which will lay down the need to reduce troop numbers by about 10,000. This is the "peace dividend" the government wants as a result of the agreement to reduce troop levels in Northern Ireland from 14,500 to 5000 by April 2005.

An MoD spokeswoman said it would not confirm speculation on the forthcoming White Paper. However, she highlighted a speech made by Defence Secretary Geoff Hoon earlier this year to the defence think-tank the Royal UnitedServices Institute.

In it, Hoon said: "Defence cannot stand still. I am therefore looking to the MoD to think the unthinkable, to challenge orthodoxies and find new solutions. This will mean tough choices. We have no alternative."

Clive Fairweather, the former divisional colonel of the Scottish regiments, who oversaw the last regiment review in 1993, said: "The peace dividend from Northern Ireland is driving this review, along with the Army being short of cash.

"A number of options are being looked at and this one is the most radical. That can't be ruled out but I don't expect it will be that extreme. The thinking behind this White Paper is pre-Iraq and before we have finally pulled out of Northern Ireland. So a lot could still change.

"It is likely the MoD will instead lay down that it wants a lean and mean Army rather than specifying which regiments are to go or be amalgamated. They will leave that to the Army."

At the time of the last review of the Army's infantry manpower during 1991-93 The Gordons and The Queen's Own Highlanders were merged into The Highlanders. The KOSB and the Royal Scots were to have merged but within weeks of that happening, Malcolm Rifkind, the then Defence Secretary rescinded the order following a huge campaign in Scotland.

The KOSB has just returned from a tour of duty in Iraq and the Royal Scots have replaced them.

Another senior Army source said last night: "Any threat of the abolition of regiments is likely to spark another huge campaign and there could well be political damage flowing from the decision.

He added: "None of Scotland's regiments is up to strength, soldiering has become a following which young people don't want to pursue, the war against terrorism is unpopular and soldiering has lost its popular appeal.

"Following on from Bush's visit which includes the UK in the battle against terrorism it seems self-defeating to cut back on the striking force of the army - the infantry, at this point."

There are six Scottish regiments. All are under-recruited and all find it difficult to bring themselves up to full strength.

23 November 2003

***********

Thank God my dad's family did their service in the CANADIAN Black
Watch, and not in the British Original.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-23 11:22pm

I had an amusing though on this, If Jesse Jackson was British he'd probably be claiming the proposal is racially motivated to keep Scots out of uniform.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-24 12:21am

When will the europeans learn that if you want to project
power and be taken seriously, you HAVE to spend money
to make it happen?

otter · Post by **otter** » 2003-11-24 12:22am

Shhhhhhh!!!

I think I just saw Al Sharpton's ears perk up

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-11-24 12:29am

MKSheppard wrote:When will the europeans learn that if you want to project
power and be taken seriously, you HAVE to spend money
to make it happen?

Have we got money to spend on military? (serious question, not sarcasm)

I've always been under the impression (admittedly, only an impression) that especially under the labour government, defence spending has taken a back seat to spending on health and education, I know which one I'm happier with it being spent on, but that's just my opinion.

RadiO · Post by **RadiO** » 2003-11-24 07:02am

I think the official reason that the Scottish regiments are being targeted is that recruitment in Scotland has apparently dropped through the floor. For instance, in the recent war the Black Watch had to be reinforced by the Grenadier Guards, because they were short of manpower by an entire company.
This decision fucking sucks. You watch, the government will still want the British Army to get involved in every peace-keeping operation and US-led action going - they just don't want to actually pay for a military that can do what they ask of it. The fucking IDIOTS.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-24 03:12pm

RadiO wrote: This decision fucking sucks. You watch, the government will still want the British Army to get involved in every peace-keeping operation and US-led action going - they just don't want to actually pay for a military that can do what they ask of it. The fucking IDIOTS.

It was that kind of mentality under Clinton which wrought massive damage to the US military, all those peacekeeping operations and bombing campaigns he had along with the generally high operations tempo all had to be paid for out of the militaries existing budget, which was already insufficient for its basic requirements. And British forces are already more greatly stretched.

But since the military isn't too likely to get more money, it's probably best to disband these units and use the money saved to improve other units. Though no doubt the budget will be cut next year as a result.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2003-11-24 03:27pm

Labour has actually increased the defence budget by 3.5 Billion between 2002-2005 which is the biggest increase for 20 years, although it still probably won't be enough they aren't actually cutting the defence budget whilst upping operations as they are so often get accused of.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-11-25 03:33am

*laughs as one of the few European Union armies still worth mentioning is disassymbled*

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-11-25 06:52am

What is it with Anglo governments and the millitary? The Brits are overstreched and they want to cut regiments?..fuck..cut commitments and then say you want to cut regiments if they are no longer nessary, at least that would be logical.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-11-25 07:53am

Stuart Mackey wrote:What is it with Anglo governments and the millitary? The Brits are overstreched and they want to cut regiments?..fuck..cut commitments and then say you want to cut regiments if they are no longer nessary, at least that would be logical.

Woah, logic and gov't together? You're cuckoo!

This hopefully will not pass and if anything we may get some commonsense used later on, like increased spending to aid the American Junior Army which is already paper thin around the globe.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-11-25 07:55am

otter wrote:Shhhhhhh!!!

I think I just saw Al Sharpton's ears perk up

Does he know what the Black Watch are

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-11-25 08:00am

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:What is it with Anglo governments and the millitary? The Brits are overstreched and they want to cut regiments?..fuck..cut commitments and then say you want to cut regiments if they are no longer nessary, at least that would be logical.
Woah, logic and gov't together? You're cuckoo!

I post from a mental hospital

This hopefully will not pass and if anything we may get some commonsense used later on, like increased spending to aid the American Junior Army which is already paper thin around the globe.

What you need is to stop trying to be America Junior and stop trying to get all the pretty toys when you dont need them.