In any event, the close of the NJO certain story-arcs open to be resolved in Troy Denning's 2005 trilogy:
* What became of the Widowmaker after TFP?
* Jag/Jaina?
* Danni/Jacen?
* Could the Dark Jedi in SBS have survived?
* Will the Yuuzhan Vong be safe on ZS from those seeking redemption for the invasion?
The list goes on and on...
The New Jedi Order - A Look Back.
Moderator: Vympel
-
Axis Kast
- Vympel's Bitch
- Posts: 3893
- Joined: 2003-03-02 10:45am
- Location: Pretoria, South Africa
- Contact:
What is this about Dark Jedi? Did they come from the Praxeum and simply gain in anger as the galaxy turned against them, or were they trained elsewhere and in private (as unlikely as that might seem)?
To be honest, I wasn’t so hot on The Unifying Force. They made a series of key mistakes: Nom Anor, for one, stepped out-of-character at the end, accepting his own death against all precedent. Boba Fett’s appearance was ultimately so short-lived it was nothing but a gimmick, saved from further ridicule only by a half-decent hats off to the Prequel Trilogy and the root of the bounty hunter’s anger (i.e. Jedi). Millions of Yhuuzan Vong giving up rather than fighting to the bitter end; understandable, but nevertheless disappointing. Only passing discussion of other fronts; I had really hoped to discover how the Corporate Sector had hung on with only Espos and Victories to guard it, and what kind of fighting the Chiss had managed to do for themselves (especially considering the, “I’ve seen things that would freeze your blood” comment and the like).
To be honest, I wasn’t so hot on The Unifying Force. They made a series of key mistakes: Nom Anor, for one, stepped out-of-character at the end, accepting his own death against all precedent. Boba Fett’s appearance was ultimately so short-lived it was nothing but a gimmick, saved from further ridicule only by a half-decent hats off to the Prequel Trilogy and the root of the bounty hunter’s anger (i.e. Jedi). Millions of Yhuuzan Vong giving up rather than fighting to the bitter end; understandable, but nevertheless disappointing. Only passing discussion of other fronts; I had really hoped to discover how the Corporate Sector had hung on with only Espos and Victories to guard it, and what kind of fighting the Chiss had managed to do for themselves (especially considering the, “I’ve seen things that would freeze your blood” comment and the like).
The Dark Jedi were Nightsisters from Dathomir, which fell during the first year I believe. Now, the Solos and the Jedi task force that was trying to destroy the Voxyn (the YV-engineered Jedi-hunting creature) encountered them during the mission. They agreed for mutual survival to work together - at least until the Nightsisters double-crossed them and stole their escape shuttle which they felt destroyed by the Vong.
But you never know...
But you never know...
Loved NJO...I've got every book.
In some ways, it's too bad its over. In others ways, its good.
Some of the best SW books I have read are NJO books, and the X-wing books (excepting that last one, Starfighters of Adumar...didn't bother reading it after i skimmed through it at a store).
Vector Prime, well, stunk. Vong biotech seems terrible in that book, and thanks to Prefect Da'gara the Yuuzhan Vong seem more like raving lunatics than the evil, murderous fanatics they turn out to be later on. The coralskippers don't even have voids! One hit from an X-wing and they go boom.
And that final battle at Helska was so pathetic it was sad. The Yammosk sends its signals with gravitic pulses, and is also telepathic, right? So, HOW can the shieldships reflect this energy? I can see the shieldships reflecting light, but not gravity.
Chewabacca's death was a bit of a shocker, but it shook Star Wars out of its "heros never die" theme. Star Trek can never do that...(Spock dies, but transfers his vulcan katra and memories to a restored body...Data dies, but first he copies all his memories to B4...)
Fortunately for me, Vector Prime wasn't my first NJO book, or I probably wouldn't have read the rest of the series.
The first NJO book I got was Dark Tide 1
The Dark Tide books were great. The Jedi Eclipse books were...not so great.
The big battles and invasion books of NJO were the high points- the low points were the one-planet books, where the entire book centers around the fate of a couple planets that don't really matter in the scheme of things. Examples: Balance Point (Duro), the Force Heretic trilogy (in each book, Han, Leia, Jaina, and Tahiri would be trying to save a planet from the Vong, and Luke would be looking for Zonama Sekot), the Edge of Victory books Conquest and Rebirth (Yavin and Yagh'dhul, neither of which really mattered, as the Jedi should have moved from Yavin ages before and Yagh'dhul only produced civilian fighters), and Dark Journey (Hapan cluster).
I disliked the style of Traitor, and listening to Jacen whine got old fast.
On the other hand, books like Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force really captured the heart of the series.
Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand (excepting the Lord Nyax part) were pretty good as well, for the space battles.
As I said earlier, the Dark Tide books were great. Shedao Shai made Da'gara look like a whiney wanna be villan who can't talk straight.
For the Unifying Force, I personally say Nom Anor survived. Why would Nom Anor accept dying? He'd been obsessed with survival before. Then there was the fact that he wanted no part in either culture- if he went back with the Solos he'd either be a war criminal, or sent with the rest of the Vong in whatever punishment or exile they recieved. Then there was the fact that he 'simply wanted to disappear'. What if he simply pretended to stay behind to die, then jumped in ANOTHER escape craft? Then he could 'simply disappear'.
For those Dark Jedi...
They captured Raynar, a Jedi trainee, when they double crossed the Jedi in Star by Star by stealing their escape shuttle. Then the Jedi felt a twinge in a force which "just may have been strong enough to be raynar's death". They WEREN'T SURE. Since Raynar had been intoxicated by the antidote to a Vong poison at the time, he might have hallucinated something that scared him causing the twinge in the force. Or maybe a plasma blast got through and killed Raynar (who being the captive was probably in the back of the ship) but sparing the Dark Jedi. Or maybe the twinge in the force was all the people dying back at Coruscant. Or maybe it was Raynar's fear of the Dark Jedi. There are so many things it could be that there is no way to know if they died or not.
I have my own question:
Did Nas Choka die at the end of The Unifying Force? I thought he didn't (he met with the Alliance leaders and surrendered), but then on my second time reading the book I spotted this line on page 505:
"Several species that had endured the brunt of the invasion were still demanding that the entire warrior caste be executed- an act of reprisal that even Omas might have sanctioned were it not for Nas Choka's steadfast willingness to oblige. Still, no one wanted to risk a sudden recanting by the warmaster. So, immediately following the summit, all Yuuzhan Vong warriors had been transferred to the bellies of several Star Destroyers and troop transports, and the vessels that had comprised the mighty alien armada had been launched into Coruscant's sun, carrying with them all weapons of war."
I've been trying to figure this one out. What was launched into the sun, the Yuuzhan Vong's ships, or the Star Destroyers with all the Vong warriors on them?
In some ways, it's too bad its over. In others ways, its good.
Some of the best SW books I have read are NJO books, and the X-wing books (excepting that last one, Starfighters of Adumar...didn't bother reading it after i skimmed through it at a store).
Vector Prime, well, stunk. Vong biotech seems terrible in that book, and thanks to Prefect Da'gara the Yuuzhan Vong seem more like raving lunatics than the evil, murderous fanatics they turn out to be later on. The coralskippers don't even have voids! One hit from an X-wing and they go boom.
And that final battle at Helska was so pathetic it was sad. The Yammosk sends its signals with gravitic pulses, and is also telepathic, right? So, HOW can the shieldships reflect this energy? I can see the shieldships reflecting light, but not gravity.
Chewabacca's death was a bit of a shocker, but it shook Star Wars out of its "heros never die" theme. Star Trek can never do that...(Spock dies, but transfers his vulcan katra and memories to a restored body...Data dies, but first he copies all his memories to B4...)
Fortunately for me, Vector Prime wasn't my first NJO book, or I probably wouldn't have read the rest of the series.
The first NJO book I got was Dark Tide 1
The Dark Tide books were great. The Jedi Eclipse books were...not so great.
The big battles and invasion books of NJO were the high points- the low points were the one-planet books, where the entire book centers around the fate of a couple planets that don't really matter in the scheme of things. Examples: Balance Point (Duro), the Force Heretic trilogy (in each book, Han, Leia, Jaina, and Tahiri would be trying to save a planet from the Vong, and Luke would be looking for Zonama Sekot), the Edge of Victory books Conquest and Rebirth (Yavin and Yagh'dhul, neither of which really mattered, as the Jedi should have moved from Yavin ages before and Yagh'dhul only produced civilian fighters), and Dark Journey (Hapan cluster).
I disliked the style of Traitor, and listening to Jacen whine got old fast.
On the other hand, books like Star by Star, Destiny's Way, and The Unifying Force really captured the heart of the series.
Rebel Dream and Rebel Stand (excepting the Lord Nyax part) were pretty good as well, for the space battles.
As I said earlier, the Dark Tide books were great. Shedao Shai made Da'gara look like a whiney wanna be villan who can't talk straight.
For the Unifying Force, I personally say Nom Anor survived. Why would Nom Anor accept dying? He'd been obsessed with survival before. Then there was the fact that he wanted no part in either culture- if he went back with the Solos he'd either be a war criminal, or sent with the rest of the Vong in whatever punishment or exile they recieved. Then there was the fact that he 'simply wanted to disappear'. What if he simply pretended to stay behind to die, then jumped in ANOTHER escape craft? Then he could 'simply disappear'.
For those Dark Jedi...
They captured Raynar, a Jedi trainee, when they double crossed the Jedi in Star by Star by stealing their escape shuttle. Then the Jedi felt a twinge in a force which "just may have been strong enough to be raynar's death". They WEREN'T SURE. Since Raynar had been intoxicated by the antidote to a Vong poison at the time, he might have hallucinated something that scared him causing the twinge in the force. Or maybe a plasma blast got through and killed Raynar (who being the captive was probably in the back of the ship) but sparing the Dark Jedi. Or maybe the twinge in the force was all the people dying back at Coruscant. Or maybe it was Raynar's fear of the Dark Jedi. There are so many things it could be that there is no way to know if they died or not.
I have my own question:
Did Nas Choka die at the end of The Unifying Force? I thought he didn't (he met with the Alliance leaders and surrendered), but then on my second time reading the book I spotted this line on page 505:
"Several species that had endured the brunt of the invasion were still demanding that the entire warrior caste be executed- an act of reprisal that even Omas might have sanctioned were it not for Nas Choka's steadfast willingness to oblige. Still, no one wanted to risk a sudden recanting by the warmaster. So, immediately following the summit, all Yuuzhan Vong warriors had been transferred to the bellies of several Star Destroyers and troop transports, and the vessels that had comprised the mighty alien armada had been launched into Coruscant's sun, carrying with them all weapons of war."
I've been trying to figure this one out. What was launched into the sun, the Yuuzhan Vong's ships, or the Star Destroyers with all the Vong warriors on them?
I'd like to give my own analysis of everyone's favorite Executor, Nom Anor, and how people are complaining about his characterization in the last NJO book.
Remember that Nom Anor was about survival - survival AND power.
He lived for power and through his cunning, his wit and his ambitious plans, he was brought closer to that power.
Even when he truly learned in Destiny's Way that the Gods were fake, he still clung to his power. Even when he fell out of grace after Ebaq 9, he still sought to achieve some degree of that power by leading the Shamed Ones as the Prophet.
And by apparently stopping Zonama Sekot, he achieved the ultimate power that a member of your order could get - Prefect of Yuuzhan'tar.
Now, flash-forward to the TUF. Shimmra had ordered the burning of your people's new homeworld and with it, all things Yuuzhan Vong. Your fleet is on a suicide mission and your SO is out of his mind.
To Nom Anor, it's essentially, 'What the hell."
So, at the end, with Shimmra/Onimi's deaths, the YV is leaderless and the end of the war is imminent. To your people (the elite/majority of the YV), you're like Harrar, a traitor to the ideals that made the YV what they are and to the Shamed Ones, though your predictions came true, a foe being a member of the Elite.
As to the Galactic Alliance, you're a war crimminal personally responsible for the deaths of untold millions. As to the Jedi, Mara Jade Skywalker, even after sparing your life, wants your head, as does the Jedi Master. Finally, after what you did to Zonama Sekot, what chance to you have of living out a life of power there and among a defeated people?
You've got no reason to go on.
That's my two cents about it.
Remember that Nom Anor was about survival - survival AND power.
He lived for power and through his cunning, his wit and his ambitious plans, he was brought closer to that power.
Even when he truly learned in Destiny's Way that the Gods were fake, he still clung to his power. Even when he fell out of grace after Ebaq 9, he still sought to achieve some degree of that power by leading the Shamed Ones as the Prophet.
And by apparently stopping Zonama Sekot, he achieved the ultimate power that a member of your order could get - Prefect of Yuuzhan'tar.
Now, flash-forward to the TUF. Shimmra had ordered the burning of your people's new homeworld and with it, all things Yuuzhan Vong. Your fleet is on a suicide mission and your SO is out of his mind.
To Nom Anor, it's essentially, 'What the hell."
So, at the end, with Shimmra/Onimi's deaths, the YV is leaderless and the end of the war is imminent. To your people (the elite/majority of the YV), you're like Harrar, a traitor to the ideals that made the YV what they are and to the Shamed Ones, though your predictions came true, a foe being a member of the Elite.
As to the Galactic Alliance, you're a war crimminal personally responsible for the deaths of untold millions. As to the Jedi, Mara Jade Skywalker, even after sparing your life, wants your head, as does the Jedi Master. Finally, after what you did to Zonama Sekot, what chance to you have of living out a life of power there and among a defeated people?
You've got no reason to go on.
That's my two cents about it.
As for the five hardcovers, I'd like to think that each one represents one of the five movies (sorry Episode III). Here's my analysis:
Vector Prime = The Phantom Menace (TPM being the Vong)
Balance Point = Attack of the Clones (Republic falling apart, mystery, the war becoming personal for the Jedi)
Star by Star = The Empire Strike Back (Hands down with Anakin's death and the fall of Coruscant - which even after two years, I still can't believe happened; as I see, it was a lasting shock adding to shock that 9/11 had just occured).
Destiny's Way = A New Hope (Jacen's return, the turning point at Ebaq Nine)
The Unifying Force = Return of the Jedi (Need I say more)
Vector Prime = The Phantom Menace (TPM being the Vong)
Balance Point = Attack of the Clones (Republic falling apart, mystery, the war becoming personal for the Jedi)
Star by Star = The Empire Strike Back (Hands down with Anakin's death and the fall of Coruscant - which even after two years, I still can't believe happened; as I see, it was a lasting shock adding to shock that 9/11 had just occured).
Destiny's Way = A New Hope (Jacen's return, the turning point at Ebaq Nine)
The Unifying Force = Return of the Jedi (Need I say more)
-
StarshipTitanic
- Sith Marauder
- Posts: 4475
- Joined: 2002-07-03 09:41pm
- Location: Massachusetts
Someone please summarize The Unifying Force, I'm not spending the money on it.
"Man's unfailing capacity to believe what he prefers to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be likely and possible has always astounded me...God has not been proven not to exist, therefore he must exist." -- Academician Prokhor Zakharov
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
"Hal grabs life by the balls and doesn't let you do that [to] hal."
"I hereby declare myself master of the known world."
Right you were...Ender wrote:Not necessarily, what it endured from the Imperial Civil war was alot worse and it recovered from that in a few years. All the Vong really did was knock down the tallest structures and then start building on top of that, they didn't go down to the bedrock like the Imps did when they were fighting among themselves.JME2 wrote:Even if they did, it would take years, hell even centuries before the ravages of the Vong occupation vanish and the cityscape rises up once again.
Worst damage the thing suffered was them dropping the golan stations on it and what happens in TUF. But once the industrial might of the galaxy gets up and running they can rebuild swiftly.
Re: The New Jedi Order - A Look Back.
That was probably the only real problem with the last NJO duology. Allston must have gone to the George Lucas school of villainy because, like Darth Maul and Jango Fett, he kills off all the cool bad guys that appear in this book, from Lord Nyax to Czulkan Lah and let us not forget Viqi Shesh (I personally think she could have lasted a few more books before biting the dust).Illuminatus Primus wrote:Lord Nyax wasn't in Star by Star. He was in the Enemy Lines duology.Durandal wrote:I got so fed up with all the dumbshit organic technology fanboy wanking that I just stopped reading the series after Star By Star, which I thought was excellent. Except, of course, for that ludicrous Lord Nyax plot device. Jesus Christ, I can't get over how mind-numbingly stupid that was. That book should've been 400 pages, and I was often tempted to just skip over that bullshit to get to the exciting stuff, like the Jedi insurgency team.
-
Connor MacLeod
- Sith Apprentice
- Posts: 14065
- Joined: 2002-08-01 05:03pm
- Contact:
None of the villians in Enemy Lines were really cool. Nyax was really the one pointless aspect of Enemy Lines (had no real connection to the overall story other than to rehash an old plot line from a mostly-forgotten novel). The Lah guy was just more convenient cannon fodder (might have made a differenec if he'd had more of a role in earlier books).. Shesh really never mattered much to me.
-
Darth Fanboy
- DUH! WINNING!
- Posts: 11182
- Joined: 2002-09-20 05:25am
- Location: Mars, where I am a totally bitchin' rockstar.
Nyax himself ws pointless but the idea of darksiders being targeted in this war helped keep a semblance of interest. I think a small side story or e-book that would have been interesting would have a been a dark side stronghold on some outer rim planet targeted by the Vong. Imagine how far into hate fear and anger they could go with a threat that, unlike the jedi, set out to eradicate them in the most gruesome of ways. Could've been interesting.
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little."
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-
The Yosemite Bear
- Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
- Posts: 35211
- Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
- Location: Dave's Not Here Man
So what happened to the vong world ship....
Remember when Dalaa attacked the Jedi academy?
Yeah,
Well they attacked Byss, and well the resident's gave into their fear, and anger...
Damn, that must have been one fuckin hell of a force storm....
Remember when Dalaa attacked the Jedi academy?
Yeah,
Well they attacked Byss, and well the resident's gave into their fear, and anger...
Damn, that must have been one fuckin hell of a force storm....
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
-
Darth Fanboy
- DUH! WINNING!
- Posts: 11182
- Joined: 2002-09-20 05:25am
- Location: Mars, where I am a totally bitchin' rockstar.
Except the Vong wouldn't use Imperial Tactics. they'd be going for captives to sacrifice and would use different weapons and tactics than the Imperials.The Yosemite Bear wrote:So what happened to the vong world ship....
Remember when Dalaa attacked the Jedi academy?
Yeah,
Grrrr KJA......
Fucking Daala, its a Super star Destroyer, BDZ the thing and get it over with.
Eh? You lost me there YB, you mean in Dark Empire when the Alliance attacked Byss?Well they attacked Byss, and well the resident's gave into their fear, and anger...
Damn, that must have been one fuckin hell of a force storm....
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little."
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-
The Yosemite Bear
- Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
- Posts: 35211
- Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
- Location: Dave's Not Here Man
No fanboy I was joking about what would happen to the Vong world ship if they attacked Byss with full number of Dark Adepts etc.
The Dark Adepts and Darkside Clone Pilots would just give into fear & hatred, and well take everything down with them. All though Level three dark troopers would also make for a nice sith kicking....
The Dark Adepts and Darkside Clone Pilots would just give into fear & hatred, and well take everything down with them. All though Level three dark troopers would also make for a nice sith kicking....
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin
Could work if Dark Horse does more 'Infinites' tales.The Yosemite Bear wrote:No fanboy I was joking about what would happen to the Vong world ship if they attacked Byss with full number of Dark Adepts etc.
The Dark Adepts and Darkside Clone Pilots would just give into fear & hatred, and well take everything down with them. All though Level three dark troopers would also make for a nice sith kicking....
-
Darth Fanboy
- DUH! WINNING!
- Posts: 11182
- Joined: 2002-09-20 05:25am
- Location: Mars, where I am a totally bitchin' rockstar.
A duel between a Dark Lord of the Sith and Shimmra would be interesting.
Imagine Palpatine in the same room as Shimmra, can you imagine Ol' Palpy sending shimmra through a wall and then reducing him to a pile of ash with lightning?
"This is MY Galaxy"
Imagine Palpatine in the same room as Shimmra, can you imagine Ol' Palpy sending shimmra through a wall and then reducing him to a pile of ash with lightning?
"This is MY Galaxy"
"If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little."
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-George Carlin (1937-2008)
"Have some of you Americans actually seen Football? Of course there are 0-0 draws but that doesn't make them any less exciting."
-Dr Roberts, with quite possibly the dumbest thing ever said in 10 years of SDNet.
-
The Yosemite Bear
- Mostly Harmless Nutcase (Requiescat in Pace)
- Posts: 35211
- Joined: 2002-07-21 02:38am
- Location: Dave's Not Here Man
Also a bunch of warrior Vong (I sense no life here)
*Darktrooper III and Dark Empire war machines show up*
Erm what did we do to piss off our gods this time and inhairet such a force of FAR more powerful machine abonimations?
*Darktrooper III and Dark Empire war machines show up*
Erm what did we do to piss off our gods this time and inhairet such a force of FAR more powerful machine abonimations?
The scariest folk song lyrics are "My Boy Grew up to be just like me" from cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin