At the Frontier of Music

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-11-28 12:54am

Ok, we've had lots of Favorite Music threads, but I wanna list, and have you list, you favorite musicians that are really exploring new ground with music; something enw, something refreshing, something wholely unique or different.

My personal favorite bands/groups/artists are Seikima II, Malice Mizer, Camui Gackt, Dir en Grey, and Glay. All Japanese bands. Another band with atleast one extremely good song is Pato Fu and it's Made in Japan. Denki Groove is also pretty damn neat.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-28 01:47am

Bal Sagoth and Opeth come to mind as metal bands that have redefined their respective genre's with atmospheric epics that infuse acoustic guitars, keyboards and moody snyth work against crushing guitar riffs and hard vocals. Italian metal band Rhapsody also comes to mind--is it classical music with heavy metal in it or is it heavy metal with classical music in it? Hard to say.

Progressive rock is always on the cutting edge too.

Bertie Wooster · Post by **Bertie Wooster** » 2003-11-28 09:50am

In terms of things that are totally original and cutting edge, lets see, there's radiohead obviously, Hella, Ween and Deerhoof in the progressive/punk department, and Mary Timony in the alternative rock department. Thats all I can think of.

The funny thing is that the most cutting edge musicians are extremely obscure.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2003-11-28 09:51am

I remember Dream Theater being quite progressive and cutting-edge back in the day...wonder whatever happened to them?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-28 12:13pm

zombie84 wrote:Bal Sagoth and Opeth come to mind as metal bands that have redefined their respective genre's with atmospheric epics that infuse acoustic guitars, keyboards and moody snyth work against crushing guitar riffs and hard vocals.

Whoa!!! A fellow Bal-Sagoth fan!

However, I'll have to say they're not that unique anylonger, since they've been around for at least 9 years and have clearly influenced bands such as Thyrfing, Mithotyn and Mystic Circle.

I won't exactly say they're exploring so much new ground either - although I have noted an increasing tendency to use keyboards to emulate Gregorian choirs in their songs. (which started on a single track on "Battle Magic" and became more predominant in some of the songs on "Atlantis Ascendant") However, there are other bands which use "fake Gregorian choir" keyboards to a much greater extent.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-11-28 12:50pm

Chardok wrote:I remember Dream Theater being quite progressive and cutting-edge back in the day...wonder whatever happened to them?

They've just brought out a new album.

Rhapsody are also great, Apocalypse comes to mind when i think of them...

Children of Bodom were probably the first band that brought over-usage of synth to metal.

Pantera were the first band i know of that had a really..chainsaw sounding guitar with clear drumming and brutal vocals, with decent slow metal riffs, other stuff from that era that isn't glam rock type stuff is all speed metal.

Oh and Fear Factory brought in the whole switching between gutteral growling and shouting and melodic parts, that loads of bands have copied since.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-28 01:32pm

I should mention Fear Factory's recording technique as being really revolutionary. Now its kinda commonplace for all of these indie bands to record and mix in their basements but back in the early 90's Fear Factory was way ahead of their time--rather than recording the band live and equalizing the levels, or even recording each instrument and then mixing them all together, Fear Factory opted to "sample" each instrument, similar to hip hop. Rather than record each riff live all the way through the song, they would just record the riff once and then loop it throughout, resulting in a 3 second or so sample being looped throughout the entire song; in fact the only instrument recorded live is the drums! But then if you're going to get into digital recording revolutions then Moby is probably the best example.

Dream Theater was once cutting edge i guess but they havent broke new ground in a while really...i mean once they established their sound theres not much room for massive revoltuion there.

The same with NIN--after Downward Spiral theres really nowhere else to go (BTW, i heard that NIN is recording a new album in feb).

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-11-28 02:05pm

The Darkness, such a throw back they are refreshing. Spandex and big heair for everybody!!!

Hethrir · Post by **Hethrir** » 2003-11-28 10:45pm

Chardok wrote:I remember Dream Theater being quite progressive and cutting-edge back in the day...wonder whatever happened to them?

lol, what did happen to them? 6 degress was cool, and 'train of thought' is barely passable. When James started to rap in 'this dying soul' i nearly puked.

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-11-29 01:34am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:< snip >

Hail Bal Sagoth! Hail Thyrfing!
BLODU OK JARNA

Saurencaerthai · Post by **Saurencaerthai** » 2003-11-29 01:36am

Chardok wrote:I remember Dream Theater being quite progressive and cutting-edge back in the day...wonder whatever happened to them?

I dunno, they did alot of stuff that pushed things foreward, but they stagnated after a while, I think. Liquid Tension Expariment was really a breath of life for those players, I think.

To be honest, the most innovation I've been seeing has been among the Jazzers. Walter Smith, I know, has been coming along.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-29 04:25am

Rye wrote: Children of Bodom were probably the first band that brought over-usage of synth to metal.

You couldn't be more wrong. Children of Bodom's first album was IIRC released in 1998.

Bal-Sagoth, who use synths to a far greater extent than CoB, was formed in 1993 and defined their unique, synth-heavy style on their second album "Starfire Burning Upon The Ice-Veiled Throne Of Ultima Thule", which was released in 1996.

Yes, you've read that right. Bal-Sagoth's synth-usage predates CoB's by several years!

Here are some more really original metal bands:

1. Finntroll. These guys come from the same country as CoB, and have been the only band to date which successfully combined
2. Falkenbach. Solo project of an Icelandic guy living in Germany, this band is one of the better folk metal bands I've heard recently.
3. The Summoning. Tolkien-themed crossover between trance music and metal. Must be heard to be believed

I'll also have to mention the danish band Red Warszawa. (a typo, they admit that the name "Red Warszaw" would be more appropiate) While their music is not very innovative, (raw, punk-inspired thrash metal) their unintentionally hilarious far-left political stance is a rarity in the metal genre, where the closest thing you'll usually get to political bands are those who endorse Nazism for the sake of simultaneously drawing attention while repelling as many potential fans as possible.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-29 04:45am

I'm an old geezer. Does anyone else remember Queensyche and their album "Operation Mindcrime"?

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-29 01:06pm

yup! I was just about to mention that in response to Simon--of course that album came out in 1988 so its hardly contemporary. Truely the finest and most ambitious concept album ever made, and certainly the most political pre-RATM album. Still one of my all-time favourites; the defining progressive-metal album of all time.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-29 01:38pm

Darth Wong wrote:I'm an old geezer. Does anyone else remember Queensyche and their album "Operation Mindcrime"?

I do know about Queensryche and they are IIRC still around, but I haven't heard "Operation Mindcrime".

IIRC, Queensryche play a crossover between metal and prog-rock.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-29 01:41pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:I haven't heard "Operation Mindcrime".

Go now.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-11-29 02:04pm

Geijan Invasion seemed to be doing new stuff but i don't know if they ever made it big (at least big in Japan)

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-29 03:57pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:I do know about Queensryche and they are IIRC still around, but I haven't heard "Operation Mindcrime".

Seriously, nothing they did before or since that album has come close to it.

Arthur_Tuxedo · Post by **Arthur_Tuxedo** » 2003-11-29 07:11pm

Darth Wong wrote:Seriously, nothing they did before or since that album has come close to it.

I dunno, I thought Empire came damn close. Jet city woooooooomaaaaaaa *clears throat* sorry, won't happen again.

zombie84 · Post by **zombie84** » 2003-11-29 07:46pm

After Mindcrime they kinda became a general rock band. Empire was way too watered down--resulting in their only radio hit, Silent Lucidity. Decent album but it was a fall from grace.

Any for any Queensryche fans--check out the DVD of Operation Livecrime. It is so fucking awesome--its a live performance of the entire Mindcrime album, including the dramatic between-song bits, fleshed out with animated jumbo-tron videos and live performers. Add a completly sold-out Madison Square Gardens audience and you have one of the most enjoyable live performances ever! Seriously, its a fucking great concert, very *big* and very energetic.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-30 05:42am

Darth Wong wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote:I do know about Queensryche and they are IIRC still around, but I haven't heard "Operation Mindcrime".

Seriously, nothing they did before or since that album has come close to it.

Heck, most of my friends have probably not even heard of Queensryche, although I'm sure all of them know about Queen.

Rye · Post by **Rye** » 2003-11-30 07:55am

Simon H.Johansen wrote: Yes, you've read that right. Bal-Sagoth's synth-usage predates CoB's by several years!

Heheh. i suppose my kazaa dating method failed me then. It goes like this:
higher amount of songs = higher amount of albums and also = big fanbase
higher amount of albums = been around longer

So i actually surmised that Bal Sagoth were only young, since their stuff's really good but really sparse.

Unfortunately, as in this case, obscure bands sometimes evade the system.

Post by **haas mark** » 2003-11-30 08:00am

I am trying to decide if The Crüxshadows fit in there.. you see, they are gothic techno, but one of the band members is a violinist. Plus, they have two tracks out that are actually poems placed to music (C.S. Lewis' "Jabberwocky" and Edgar Allan Poe's "Annabel Lee"). As well, they have done a cover of Annie Lennox' "Here Comes the Rain Again" - and very well, at that.

~ver