Mozilla alt tags?

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-25 02:39pm

Thanks to that damned Durandal, I decided to check out the Mozilla web browser. I'm looking at my webpages on it, and I notice the "alt" tags on images aren't working as they would in IE. I almost hate to ask this, but do I have to rewrite all my webpages to specifically account for special Mozilla tags, or will a bit of text at the top of each page do it?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-25 04:47pm

IE violates the proper usage of ALT tags. ALT tags are only supposed to show up when a user chooses not to load a given image. So, instead of seeing the image, the user sees a box the same size of the image with the contents of the ALT tag in the center. They basically tell the user what he would be seeing had he loaded the image. That's what they're there for.

If you want tags to appear on mouse over of the image, what you need to use are TITLE tags. TITLE tags are meant for extra, complimentary information, while ALT tags are meant for substitution. This isn't a "special" Mozilla behavior; it is, in fact, the way browsers should behave. Internet Explorer is the only browser I know of that allows the user to automatically display ALT tags, regardless of whether the image has loaded or not. You'll notice that there is an option in Internet Options -> Advanced called "Always expand ALT tags for information." You have it checked, but it is off by default.

Basically, you could do a simple find for all your ALT tags and replace them with TITLE tags. They go in the same place.

And I'm glad to see my little advertisement works.

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-11-25 08:02pm

This extension to Mozilla [Firebird] will force it into 'common behavior' mode where ALT tags have the tooltip popup.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-25 10:37pm

Thanks, Durandal and Phong. Yes the advertisement made me curious, BTW!

Two other things I noticed. The sound that I have looped on my main page:

http://h4h.com/louis/morg.html

doesn't seem to play on the Mozilla browser. It looks like this for IE:

<bgsound src="welcome3.wav" loop=infinite>

any fix for that? Also, I don't see a "go" button where you'd type in a URL. THe "enter" button works fine, of course, but I was wondering if I'm overlooking the Mozilla one?

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-11-25 10:48pm

Lord Poe wrote:doesn't seem to play on the Mozilla browser. It looks like this for IE:

<bgsound src="welcome3.wav" loop=infinite>

The bgsound tag is an IE-specific flag. The cross-platform tag would be:

Code: Select all

<embed src="welcome3.wav" autostart="true" loop="true">

Of course, FWIW, I'm not a fan of background music.

any fix for that? Also, I don't see a "go" button where you'd type in a URL. THe "enter" button works fine, of course, but I was wondering if I'm overlooking the Mozilla one?

Go into Edit->Preferences->Navigator

Pu-239 · Post by **Pu-239** » 2003-11-25 11:12pm

embed might be cross browser, but you are supposed to use the <object> element. I'm not sure, I think it's <object type="audio/mpeg" data="filename.mp3"></object>

I think you put width and height in too to specify the size of the embedded player.

Change the contents of type to audio/x-wav for wav and audio/midi for midi.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-26 03:00am

Wayne, you might want to add separate TITLE tags to your stuff instead of replacing the ALT tags. Part of the W3C spec is to have an ALT tag for every image. Remember, ALT if it tells you what you can see in the picture and TITLE if it's supplemental.

Suppose I have a picture of Ezri Dax getting boinked by me. The ALT tag would read something like, "Ezri Dax getting boinked by me." The TITLE tag would have more information, like, "Little did Ezri know, she was in for the most intense orgasm she's ever."

Or, for a more applicable scenario for your site, let's say you have an image of the damage to a Borg Cube. The ALT tag would read, "A Borg Cube with heavy damage." The TITLE tag would read, "This shot shows that Trekkies have severely overblown the adaptive capabilities of the Borg. As we can see, the Cube is heavily damaged."

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-26 11:54am

Oh my god...all that extra work.... [homer]Stupid Mozilla![/homer]

I'll host that Ezri Dax picture if you wish, Durandal!

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-11-26 04:15pm

Can you leave the IE specific tag for background music? Most people hate background music in webpages... so at least I won't hear it since I use mozilla

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-11-26 04:23pm

Lord Poe wrote:Oh my god...all that extra work.... [homer]Stupid Mozilla![/homer]

I'll host that Ezri Dax picture if you wish, Durandal!

He has no such picture. My sister would never willingly touch him!

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-11-26 05:52pm

Lord Poe wrote:Oh my god...all that extra work.... [homer]Stupid Mozilla![/homer]

I'll host that Ezri Dax picture if you wish, Durandal!

Actually, that would be Stupid lazy Internet Explorer allowing for poor coding!

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2003-11-26 05:56pm

Slartibartfast wrote:Can you leave the IE specific tag for background music? Most people hate background music in webpages... so at least I won't hear it since I use mozilla

NO! Because its not actually music. Its an eerie sound as you choose which crypt to visit in the morgue. Atmosphere, my man, atmosphere!

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-11-26 06:02pm

Lord Poe wrote:NO! Because its not actually music. Its an eerie sound as you choose which crypt to visit in the morgue. Atmosphere, my man, atmosphere!

Now that sounds kinda cool.....

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-11-26 06:08pm

Vertigo1 wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:NO! Because its not actually music. Its an eerie sound as you choose which crypt to visit in the morgue. Atmosphere, my man, atmosphere!
Now that sounds kinda cool.....

Unless Poe uploads the wrong thing, overwriting his creepy ambiance with hampsterdance.wav

Vertigo1 · Post by **Vertigo1** » 2003-11-26 06:29pm

phongn wrote:Unless Poe uploads the wrong thing, overwriting his creepy ambiance with hampsterdance.wav

*falls out of chair*

Ohh shit.....that'll leave a mark...

White Cat · Post by **White Cat** » 2003-11-27 06:20pm

Durandal wrote:IE violates the proper usage of ALT tags. ALT tags are only supposed to show up when a user chooses not to load a given image.

...

This isn't a "special" Mozilla behavior; it is, in fact, the way browsers should behave. Internet Explorer is the only browser I know of that allows the user to automatically display ALT tags, regardless of whether the image has loaded or not.

Uh, I know that Netscape 3 and 4 always showed the ALT text as a popup, and I'm pretty sure the earlier versions did as well. (I've been using Netscape since version 1.0)

phongn · Post by **phongn** » 2003-11-27 11:42pm

White Cat wrote:Uh, I know that Netscape 3 and 4 always showed the ALT text as a popup, and I'm pretty sure the earlier versions did as well. (I've been using Netscape since version 1.0)

It was acceptable to use the ALT tag as a tooltip until the TITLE tag was implemented.

As for NS, I've used it since around v0.9 (when it was still called Mosiac Netscape) and before that I used various incarnations of NCSA Mosiac.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-28 01:00am

White Cat wrote:Uh, I know that Netscape 3 and 4 always showed the ALT text as a popup, and I'm pretty sure the earlier versions did as well. (I've been using Netscape since version 1.0)

What's your point? The WC3 standard is very clear on how ALT and TITLE tags should be implemented, and they should be implemented in the way I describe.

Poe, when you code to meet standards, everyone turns out happy, not just people who've been duped into using a piece of shit like Internet Explorer by Microsoft. It's only extra work because you coded to meet IE's needs in the first place, which was something of a mistake on your part. A large portion of the visitors to your site are geeks who probably know about and use Mozilla or some browser aside from IE for various reasons (IE is shit all around, has no pop-up blocking, has no ad blocking, doesn't meet the full CSS-1 spec, incorporates proprietary shit, stuff like that). Yeah, it's some extra work, but your site will be more accessible because of it, and you'll be doing your part to fight Microsoft.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-28 01:02am

Eleas wrote:
Lord Poe wrote:Oh my god...all that extra work.... [homer]Stupid Mozilla![/homer]

I'll host that Ezri Dax picture if you wish, Durandal!
He has no such picture. My sister would never willingly touch him!

You've done nothing but talk shit about me to her. Maybe you should let her meet me and decide for herself. She doesn't have to bring me home to meet the parents, you know. All she has to do is sneak me in so we can fuck and take pictures.

Eleas · Post by **Eleas** » 2003-11-28 01:21am

Durandal wrote: You've done nothing but talk shit about me to her. Maybe you should let her meet me and decide for herself. She doesn't have to bring me home to meet the parents, you know. All she has to do is sneak me in so we can fuck and take pictures.

Never! My sister is a virgin. Well, orally anyway. Besides which, she's already dating me.

White Cat · Post by **White Cat** » 2003-11-28 06:24pm

Durandal wrote:
White Cat wrote:Uh, I know that Netscape 3 and 4 always showed the ALT text as a popup, and I'm pretty sure the earlier versions did as well. (I've been using Netscape since version 1.0)
What's your point? The WC3 standard is very clear on how ALT and TITLE tags should be implemented, and they should be implemented in the way I describe.

My point was that your statement "Internet Explorer is the only browser I know of that allows the user to automatically display ALT tags" is incorrect. I made no claim that it's acceptable to use ALT instead of TITLE because of that.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-11-29 03:55am

Sorry, but I don't know very many people who still use Nutscrape 3 and 4, do you? There are a few here and there who use 4.7, but I'm pretty sure that that behavior isn't present in it.

Eleas, when did Sweden become synonymous with Missouri?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-29 04:22am

Durandal wrote:Sorry, but I don't know very many people who still use Nutscrape 3 and 4, do you? There are a few here and there who use 4.7, but I'm pretty sure that that behavior isn't present in it.

Unfortunately, the Bell ISP here in Ontario still distributes NS4.7 as part of its preconfigured software package, so people do use it. Its hideous abominations against CSS are legendary.