Michael Moore's Dude, Where's My Country?

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-11-23 04:42am

I was bought Michael Moore's Dude, Where's My Country? a few days ago out of curiosity, I wanted to find out why it was a best seller.
I haven't read much of it yet because I've been reading The Final Prophecy. Have any of you read it? What did you think of it? Is it guna be worth the £8.99 that I didn't have to fork out for it?

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-23 07:28am

Doesn't this belong in N&P??

Dorsk 81 · Post by **Dorsk 81** » 2003-11-23 07:33am

Don't think so, it's not a thread about the politics of the book, just what people think about it.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-11-23 12:23pm

Dorsk 81 wrote:Don't think so, it's not a thread about the politics of the book, just what people think about it.

And such a thread would inevitable evolve into a thread about politics...

Lord Pounder · Post by **Lord Pounder** » 2003-11-23 12:26pm

I was gonna buy it, i like reading and i happened to have a tenner in my pocket, them i remembered i didn't give a shit about americas internal politics, and i'd heard Moore was a prick.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-11-23 02:20pm

Moved to Politics as this will enivatibly become political.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-23 02:25pm

Lord Pounder wrote: and i'd heard Moore was a prick.

Damn right; see that Simpsons Parody of him last week?

"And cutting arts classes proves that students will be ten times more
likely to appear on my shows." (Moore)

"Where'd you get your data for this?" (Brockman)

"From your mother!" (moore)

Soooo true.

Post by **Sea Skimmer** » 2003-11-23 02:28pm

Regardless of what the content is, this is possibly the stupidest book title ever. Though I'm sure society can and will beat it within a few months.

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-11-23 03:22pm

Interesting book, but I didn't agree with him on a few major points, one of them being that you just can't get rich in society. I'm sorry, but I come from a family that did just that, four times over in the last generation alone. Suck my Dick, Moore...

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-11-23 03:57pm

It's all over the shelves here, to my annoyance. From what i've heard, it has plenty of material from Stupid White Men in it as well.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2003-11-23 04:27pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Lord Pounder wrote: and i'd heard Moore was a prick.
Damn right; see that Simpsons Parody of him last week?

"And cutting arts classes proves that students will be ten times more
likely to appear on my shows." (Moore)

"Where'd you get your data for this?" (Brockman)

"From your mother!" (moore)

Soooo true.

I liked how MadTV/SNL(can't remember which) really burned him. Donahue was talking about how people don't like either of them and consider Moore to be a filthy pig, then went on questioning him about his hygene practices

D: How often do you wash yourself?
M: Well about once a month.
D: And what are we talking about her, a shower, a bath, what?
M: A mexican shower.
D: And for those viewers who don't know what that is could you explain?
M: Well, I take off my shirt at the sink and wash the key areas, pits, arms, and so on.
D: And your clothes, do you put on clean ones, or the ones were were wearing before.
M: The clothes I was wearing before.
D: And are these clothes ever washed?
M: Well luckly about every year I grow a size, so that's never really became a problem.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-11-23 06:42pm

3rd Impact wrote:It's all over the shelves here, to my annoyance. From what i've heard, it has plenty of material from Stupid White Men in it as well.

I was in Barnes and Noble the other day, and under a table were two stacks of books, one being Al Franken's book, the other being Moores. On top of the table, for sale, were the books by G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North. I just found that funny, for some reason.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-11-23 07:07pm

Nathan F wrote:
3rd Impact wrote:It's all over the shelves here, to my annoyance. From what i've heard, it has plenty of material from Stupid White Men in it as well.
I was in Barnes and Noble the other day, and under a table were two stacks of books, one being Al Franken's book, the other being Moores. On top of the table, for sale, were the books by G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North. I just found that funny, for some reason.

It must vary from store to store. At my B&N, it's the oppisite. Michael Moore is on front, top of the table that you see as soon as you walk in, right next to Bushwacked. Al Franken's books are in the center isle, and behind the registers. However, the new book by the Bias author is in the back of the store under a table--literally stacked under the table, not proped up so that you can see them. (Of course, all of them are presumably also in the politics section.) And the last book by Oliver North that I know of, "Mission Compromised", is back in the religious(!?) section.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-11-23 07:54pm

CelesKnight wrote:
Nathan F wrote:
3rd Impact wrote:It's all over the shelves here, to my annoyance. From what i've heard, it has plenty of material from Stupid White Men in it as well.
I was in Barnes and Noble the other day, and under a table were two stacks of books, one being Al Franken's book, the other being Moores. On top of the table, for sale, were the books by G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North. I just found that funny, for some reason.
It must vary from store to store. At my B&N, it's the oppisite. Michael Moore is on front, top of the table that you see as soon as you walk in, right next to Bushwacked. Al Franken's books are in the center isle, and behind the registers. However, the new book by the Bias author is in the back of the store under a table--literally stacked under the table, not proped up so that you can see them. (Of course, all of them are presumably also in the politics section.) And the last book by Oliver North that I know of, "Mission Compromised", is back in the religious(!?) section.

Must vary by how well the different types of books sell. The more conservative books are probably going to sell better here in Knoxville, TN, than, say, San Francisco or New York.

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2003-11-29 03:47am

Xenophobe3691 wrote:Interesting book, but I didn't agree with him on a few major points, one of them being that you just can't get rich in society. I'm sorry, but I come from a family that did just that, four times over in the last generation alone. Suck my Dick, Moore...

How exactly does a family start from scratch and get rich four times in one generation? I mean, it's awfully hard to do more than once... Of course I could be grossly misinterperating what Moore actually said, since I haven't read Dude...

Xenophobe3691 · Post by **Xenophobe3691** » 2003-11-29 05:01pm

Sriad wrote:
Xenophobe3691 wrote:Interesting book, but I didn't agree with him on a few major points, one of them being that you just can't get rich in society. I'm sorry, but I come from a family that did just that, four times over in the last generation alone. Suck my Dick, Moore...
How exactly does a family start from scratch and get rich four times in one generation? I mean, it's awfully hard to do more than once... Of course I could be grossly misinterperating what Moore actually said, since I haven't read Dude...

Depends on your interpretation of the word "Family." I meant that my dad, my two uncles, and my mom all did that, they're all family, no?

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2003-11-30 03:50pm

And so you amazingly miss the point, because it happened in your family you see it as a rule. What Moore was saying was that, everyone hopes and expects to get rich, so they let the Rich get away with absurd Tax breaks etc, rather than actually making them pay, because they think one day it will be them. When in fact the chances of it occuring are so low, you might as well accept it won't happen and start treating them as you want them treated, and not imagine yourself as one of them. Of course it can happen, it happened to Moore, but the likelyhood is far from something to start making decisions on.....

Basically he's saying actually live in the now, and stop having pipe dreams that unless you get exceptionally lucky are not going to come true. You arn't going to become a Millionaire one day... (which is what being rich in the US is all about, being a Millionaire/Billionaire, anyone else is merely wealthy, Maybe upper Middle Class.

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2003-11-30 10:35pm

Skelron wrote:Basically he's saying actually live in the now, and stop having pipe dreams that unless you get exceptionally lucky are not going to come true. You arn't going to become a Millionaire one day... (which is what being rich in the US is all about, being a Millionaire/Billionaire, anyone else is merely wealthy, Maybe upper Middle Class.

Actually, there are a LOT of people who will become "millionaires" eventually, most people starting middle/upper-middle class jobs today will put away over a million dollars before they retire.

What Moore is actually (probably) getting at in the book is that wealth is a largely incestuous institution: when you come from an affluent background it is far far easier to become affluent yourself than if you don't. Take me for example: I'm in the start of my fourth year of college but I have $0 in debt because my lower-upper class family supports me. A lower class person on the other hand, might not even get to their fourth year of college: they don't get the loan or scholarship they need, and they have to drop out for a semester or two and work full time to get back into school. When they finally get done, likely as not they're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and have that to recover from before they can even say they're solvent, much less wealthy.

Of course, this isn't always the case: people get their big breaks, their small business grosses a million dollars, they take a graphically interactive OS and start Microsoft, whatever. They don't even need to go to college for that sort of thing to happen... but by and large that isn't the way of things.

CelesKnight · Post by **CelesKnight** » 2003-11-30 11:30pm

Sriad wrote: What Moore is actually (probably) getting at in the book is that wealth is a largely incestuous institution: when you come from an affluent background it is far far easier to become affluent yourself than if you don't. Take me for example: I'm in the start of my fourth year of college but I have $0 in debt because my lower-upper class family supports me. A lower class person on the other hand, might not even get to their fourth year of college: they don't get the loan or scholarship they need, and they have to drop out for a semester or two and work full time to get back into school. When they finally get done, likely as not they're tens of thousands of dollars in debt, and have that to recover from before they can even say they're solvent, much less wealthy.

I don't know what MM is trying to say, but your point is sadly apparent in our society. It's hard for your average poor person to go to even a public university*. Moreover, it appears that even if s/he graduates, a disproportinent number of the best jobs go to Ivy League schools anyway. On the other hand, if you're already rich and grandpappy puts a million bucks in a trust fund for you, you're basically set for life, and can live off the interest as easily as the rest of us live off our jobs.

*--Unless they enter the military. Which, to be honest, is a pretty good way to handle it.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-30 11:36pm

Xenophobe3691 wrote:
Sriad wrote:
Xenophobe3691 wrote:Interesting book, but I didn't agree with him on a few major points, one of them being that you just can't get rich in society. I'm sorry, but I come from a family that did just that, four times over in the last generation alone. Suck my Dick, Moore...
How exactly does a family start from scratch and get rich four times in one generation? I mean, it's awfully hard to do more than once... Of course I could be grossly misinterperating what Moore actually said, since I haven't read Dude...
Depends on your interpretation of the word "Family." I meant that my dad, my two uncles, and my mom all did that, they're all family, no?

And each time, none of them helped the other in any way whatsoever, not with money, not with social or business or political connections, not with assistance of any sort, right? Either something stinks in your story or you have the most cold-hearted family I've ever heard of.

Anyone who seriously buys into the notion that there's a level playing field between those who are born rich and poor in this society is either an idiot or a liar. Even if you are very intelligent, it's hard to get into an Ivy League school unless your parents have connections. And even if you graduate with a good degree, the best jobs go to those who have connections. Did you know that some 80% of jobs are filled without public want ads, thanks to personal connections?

And haven't you ever wondered about those success stories where people start a business, lose money for the first two or three years, and then start making it big? Very inspirational, isn't it? Until you start wondering how the fuck they managed to survive for two or three years with a fucking negative income. That's when you discover that somebody was bankrolling them, which is very often the case. My uncle got himself into the millionaire's club and called himself a self-made millionaire, but he didn't like to mention the fact that my rich aunt married money and gave him an interest-free loan to start up his business.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-11-30 11:40pm

You're wasting money if you buy a book by Michael Moore or Ann Coulter, in my opinion. You're just shelling out cash so you can be reassured that what you already consider to be true is true.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-12-01 01:08am

Durran Korr wrote:You're wasting money if you buy a book by Michael Moore or Ann Coulter, in my opinion. You're just shelling out cash so you can be reassured that what you already consider to be true is true.

I wouldn't read either one if it wasn't for the public library.

I've read both Stupid White Men and Treason, and let's just say that 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth', is a concept alien to both Coulter and Moore.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2003-12-01 02:18am

But it IS the truth from a cetain point of view

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-01 07:42am

Typhonis 1 wrote:But it IS the truth from a cetain point of view

"There is the Truth... and then there is the Truth." - Lionel Hutz (the lawyer guy from "The Simpsons")

Tatterdemalion · Post by **Tatterdemalion** » 2003-12-01 11:47am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:"There is the Truth... and then there is the Truth." - Lionel Hutz (the lawyer guy from "The Simpsons")

But what is truth, if you follow me? -Lionel Hutz