ST vs SW a sure win for ST!

GUTB · Post by **GUTB** » 2003-11-30 08:03am

The Borg would (probably) smash the Empire.

Proof? Easily.

The Borg is fighting with Species 8472, who have ships that have approx. 1/12th the firepower of the Death Star's super laser each (12 ships working in unison can blow up a planet). Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful. And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them. Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers, the Borg can win victories. That means the Borg has a way to deal effectively with power levels WAY beyond the capability of any SW ship. Period. Wether they do that by building Super Cubes or figuring out some funky treknobabble, they can still do it. And oh yeah, Species 8472 ships can't even be hurt by "normal" weapons.

Bill Door · Post by **Bill Door** » 2003-11-30 09:13am

EXTREME BS ALERT. GET YOUR WADERS ON!

GUTB wrote:If we're talking about the entire ST universe vs. the entire SW universe than it's obvious the ST universe wins (Borg, Q, etc).

Please give ONE! piece pf evidence that the Q give a shit about the Federation.
They didn't help in Best of Both Worlds, they didn't help in the Dominion War arc... So whys the Empire any different to these two threats to the Fed's survival?

GUTB wrote:The Borg would (probably) smash the Empire.

Proof? Easily.

The Borg is fighting with Species 8472, who have ships that have approx. 1/12th the firepower of the Death Star's super laser each (12 ships working in unison can blow up a planet).

The 8472 planetary attack used 12 linked ships to create a chain reaction. The DS does it by dumping a huge amount of energy into the planet.
Any firepower comparison?

GUTB wrote:Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful.

An 8472 ship hit Voyger with its beam weapon. If its as powerful as you claimed, then there would only be vapour left. There wasn't.

As for scary, scary, SCARY powerful, try the Culture... Gridfire is way beyond even the most inflated trekkie claims.

GUTB wrote:And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them. Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers, the Borg can win victories.

As for the Borg, their nanoprobe weapon was made by Voyger's holographic doctor! (Voyger:Scorpion part 1) Think about what that means for the Borg's adaptiblility for a second, OK?

GUTB wrote:That means the Borg has a way to deal effectively with power levels WAY beyond the capability of any SW ship. Period. Wether they do that by building Super Cubes or figuring out some funky treknobabble, they can still do it.

So the mere fact that they're throwing around 200GT shots and don't get blown up in a hit means nothing... And those are the TL on an old assault transport. Those are dwarfed by the HTL batteries.

GUTB wrote:Species 8472 ships can't even be hurt by "normal" weapons.

Did you even see Voyger Scorpion part 1?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-30 09:15am

GUTB wrote:The Borg would (probably) smash the Empire.

Proof? Easily.

The Borg is fighting with Species 8472, who have ships that have approx. 1/12th the firepower of the Death Star's super laser each (12 ships working in unison can blow up a planet). Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful. And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them. Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers, the Borg can win victories. That means the Borg has a way to deal effectively with power levels WAY beyond the capability of any SW ship. Period. Wether they do that by building Super Cubes or figuring out some funky treknobabble, they can still do it. And oh yeah, Species 8472 ships can't even be hurt by "normal" weapons.

Support the college fund of your choice. Because a waste is a terrible thing to mind.

Spoonist · Post by **Spoonist** » 2003-11-30 09:23am

*Stomps foot, kicks dirt*
Damn those hijackers, couldn't we just declare them rebe... terrorists and let the stormt... USMC be done with them.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-30 09:23am

GUTB wrote:The Borg would (probably) smash the Empire.

Proof? Easily.

The Borg is fighting with Species 8472, who have ships that have approx. 1/12th the firepower of the Death Star's super laser each (12 ships working in unison can blow up a planet). Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful.

And yet it takes many seconds of sustained fire to blow up a Borg cube which is destroyed by an insignificant fraction of the planetary explosion energy. Obviously this escaped your feeble mind.

And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them. Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers, the Borg can win victories.

Look at the energy state of the planet when the S8472 beam is shut off. That is the sum total of the weapon's energy. The fact that it mysteriously blows up many seconds later is not.

That means the Borg has a way to deal effectively with power levels WAY beyond the capability of any SW ship. Period.

And yet they cannot survive a brief contact with photosphere gas or mere proximity to an exploding planet.

Wether they do that by building Super Cubes or figuring out some funky treknobabble, they can still do it. And oh yeah, Species 8472 ships can't even be hurt by "normal" weapons.

Explain the damage on the bioship that was attached to the cube in the beginning of Scorpion, then. And the one that was destroyed by ramming.

I said it in the other thread, and I will say it here. The next time you post, you had better start addressing peoples' points rather than simply ignoring them and repeating yourself.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-11-30 09:52am

Science of Discworld isn't available where I live, and I've been too busy with other stuff to find it online...narrativium, you say? Very interesting. I'll have to ask for it as a Christmas present.

Andrew J. wrote:Note, however, that they are not necessarily followed all the time. Ex: in Jingo, Corporal Nobbs is forced into drag, and it is stated that one of the laws of narrative causality is that men will find another man in drag that they think is a woman more attractive than any actual women around. However, Nobby is so damn ugly that narrative causality "gives up." There is a similar situation here; the disparity between SW and ST is so great that not even "underdog always wins" can help the Feds here.

Aha, you bring up a strong case there, but I think I know the answer to this riddle. If "the underdog always wins" would be canceled by the too numerous superiority of the empire then how come the rebellion is successful? They are equally outnumbered in several canon documents but still manage to get narrative casuality on their side.
Could it be that Nobbs is soooo ugly that it even surpasses the difference of might between the empire and the federation? *shudders*[/quote]

Well, the rebellion is a lot more powerful than the Federation, too. The difference between the rebels and the empire is a lot smaller than the difference between the empire and the UFP.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-11-30 09:56am

Darth Wong wrote:
GUTB wrote:The Borg would (probably) smash the Empire.

Proof? Easily.

The Borg is fighting with Species 8472, who have ships that have approx. 1/12th the firepower of the Death Star's super laser each (12 ships working in unison can blow up a planet). Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful.
And yet it takes many seconds of sustained fire to blow up a Borg cube which is destroyed by an insignificant fraction of the planetary explosion energy. Obviously this escaped your feeble mind.

Side note: those same Borg cubes came under attack by said bioships and absorbed multiple hits, including the Borg cube Janeway was on at the time before they fired upon the planet. Given how quickly cubes are destroyed by Species 8472 weaponry, it's hardly surprising a planetary explosion finished them off.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2003-11-30 10:38am

And why should anyone be scared of Species 8427 ? Give them a half dozen casualties and they chicken out and retreat to fluidic space!

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-11-30 11:18am

GUTB wrote: Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful. And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them. Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers, the Borg can win victories.

Okay, fine, we'll call in the Eclipse class.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-11-30 02:11pm

GUTB wrote:The Borg would (probably) smash the Empire.

Proof? Easily.

The Borg is fighting with Species 8472, who have ships that have approx. 1/12th the firepower of the Death Star's super laser each (12 ships working in unison can blow up a planet).

Via a chain reaction. Based on what we see from DET, 12 ships have the power of the Executor, not the Death Star.

Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful.

Hardly. The basis of "fluidic space" inherently means they have very little territory and thus an extremely tiny industrial base as a result.

And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them.

I didn't realise that having your ass handed to you and about to lose the war in a matter of days is containing something.

Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers,

Except they can't. They use a chain reaction, as anyone can see from the video nad is confirmed in the script. In terms of power each ship is weaker then an ISD. And since shileds stop chain reactions, they will get stomped in any actual conflict.

the Borg can win victories.

No, they can't. That was the entire purpose of those epidoes.

That means the Borg has a way to deal effectively with power levels WAY beyond the capability of any SW ship. Period.

Look, you obviously haven't analyzed this stuff indepth like we have, so I'm going easy, but the fact is that in terms of the actual energy hurled around, the cluster of ships throws out only 1*10^26 watts. That's far less then the Executor, much less the Death Star.

Wether they do that by building Super Cubes or figuring out some funky treknobabble, they can still do it. And oh yeah, Species 8472 ships can't even be hurt by "normal" weapons.

Which is why Borg weaposn were able to damage and disable one of their ships, right?

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2003-11-30 08:00pm

MKSheppard wrote:
GUTB wrote: Species 8472 is scary, scary, SCARY powerful. And yet the Borg fights a war, and is so far containing them. Now let that sink in -- against ships that DWARF Super Star Destroyers in firepower, up to the point of actually competing with the friggin' Death Star in numbers, the Borg can win victories.
Okay, fine, we'll call in the Eclipse class.

Actually, we need to call in those nice men with the white coats.