What would happen if the Yuuzhan Vong invaded Star Trek?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-11-29 08:53pm

Given their observed weapons range, FTL propulsion means.. Precisely nothing in the context of a battle.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-11-30 03:55am

Metrion Cascade wrote:One issue - unlike any Star Wars weapon I've heard of besides the Galaxy Gun, photon torpedoes have FTL propulsion.

True, although the launching platform must also be FTL. But what advantage does this serve? It is of no tactical use; an interdiction field would drop the torp out of warp long before it reached a ship, it would rapidly use up its onboard fuel (which also serves as its warhead) at warp, and it wouldn't hit any harder than a regular torp. It is of potential strategic use against fixed targets, but the Empire crushes the Federation in terms of strategic movement.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-01 11:54am

Darth Wong wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:One issue - unlike any Star Wars weapon I've heard of besides the Galaxy Gun, photon torpedoes have FTL propulsion.
True, although the launching platform must also be FTL. But what advantage does this serve? It is of no tactical use; an interdiction field would drop the torp out of warp long before it reached a ship, it would rapidly use up its onboard fuel (which also serves as its warhead) at warp, and it wouldn't hit any harder than a regular torp. It is of potential strategic use against fixed targets, but the Empire crushes the Federation in terms of strategic movement.

Wasn't the Klingon Ambassador's transport (photon torpedo) in TNG "Emissary" launched from a starbase?

Also, I apologize, but what episode indicates that interdiction fields will prevent starships from going to warp?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-12-01 01:18pm

TNG:Relics

The Enterprise was pulled out of warp by the gravity of the Dyson-Sphere.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-01 01:31pm

FTeik wrote:TNG:Relics

The Enterprise was pulled out of warp by the gravity of the Dyson-Sphere.

The Enterprise dropped out of warp, she was not pulled out of warp.

(after dropping out of warp while tracking the Jenolan's distress signal and spotting the Dyson Sphere)
DATA: I am having difficulty scanning the object. However, it would appear to be approximately 200 million kilometers in diameter.
RIKER: That's nearly the size of Earth's orbit around the sun.
PICARD: Why didn't we detect it before now?
DATA: The object's enormous mass is causing a great deal of gravimetric interference. That might have prevented our sensors from detecting the object before we dropped out of warp.

I am trying to find the actual episode so I can confirm this visually.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2003-12-01 09:15pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
FTeik wrote:TNG:Relics

The Enterprise was pulled out of warp by the gravity of the Dyson-Sphere.
The Enterprise dropped out of warp, she was not pulled out of warp.

(after dropping out of warp while tracking the Jenolan's distress signal and spotting the Dyson Sphere)
DATA: I am having difficulty scanning the object. However, it would appear to be approximately 200 million kilometers in diameter.
RIKER: That's nearly the size of Earth's orbit around the sun.
PICARD: Why didn't we detect it before now?
DATA: The object's enormous mass is causing a great deal of gravimetric interference. That might have prevented our sensors from detecting the object before we dropped out of warp.
I am trying to find the actual episode so I can confirm this visually.

OT: WTF? The E-D's sensors couldn't detect a sphere that big until they were right on top of it!?! And look at Data's response, their sensors, including gravity sensors were interfered with... by gravity.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-01 10:02pm

A better example is the DS9 episode where a BOP used its deflector dish to generate "inverse gravitons" to knock a pursuing Dominion fleet out of warp. One of those chest-beating Klingon ones where a single Klingon BOP stayed behind to heroically hold the line *cue lots of macho Klingon singing and war nog, yadda yadda yadda*

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-02 01:20am

YT300000 wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:
FTeik wrote:TNG:Relics

The Enterprise was pulled out of warp by the gravity of the Dyson-Sphere.
The Enterprise dropped out of warp, she was not pulled out of warp.

(after dropping out of warp while tracking the Jenolan's distress signal and spotting the Dyson Sphere)
DATA: I am having difficulty scanning the object. However, it would appear to be approximately 200 million kilometers in diameter.
RIKER: That's nearly the size of Earth's orbit around the sun.
PICARD: Why didn't we detect it before now?
DATA: The object's enormous mass is causing a great deal of gravimetric interference. That might have prevented our sensors from detecting the object before we dropped out of warp.
I am trying to find the actual episode so I can confirm this visually.
OT: WTF? The E-D's sensors couldn't detect a sphere that big until they were right on top of it!?! And look at Data's response, their sensors, including gravity sensors were interfered with... by gravity.

Yeah no shit....

Stupid fucking writers.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-02 01:36am

Darth Wong wrote:A better example is the DS9 episode where a BOP used its deflector dish to generate "inverse gravitons" to knock a pursuing Dominion fleet out of warp. One of those chest-beating Klingon ones where a single Klingon BOP stayed behind to heroically hold the line *cue lots of macho Klingon singing and war nog, yadda yadda yadda*

Oh you mean the good old DS9 episode "Once More Unto the Breach".

Didn't a single Klingon stay behind as well to pilot the single Klingon BoP? That's one thing that really pissed me off.....why didn't the Federation starfleet get their chance at glory? Where was their chest beating???

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-02 01:44am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Oh you mean the good old DS9 episode "Once More Unto the Breach".

Sounds right. I'm bad at memorizing episode names.

Didn't a single Klingon stay behind as well to pilot the single Klingon BoP? That's one thing that really pissed me off.....why didn't the Federation starfleet get their chance at glory? Where was their chest beating???

Roddenberry-ized humans do not beat their chests. Beating of chests is primitive behaviour which does not take place in a society with "evolved sensibilities". That's why every major battle during the Dominion War was inevitably followed by scenes of humans solemnly mourning the dead.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-02 07:08am

Darth Wong wrote:
Sounds right. I'm bad at memorizing episode names.

I didn't have it memorized either. I just went to www.startrek.com and found it so everyone would have the episode as a reference.

Roddenberry-ized humans do not beat their chests. Beating of chests is primitive behaviour which does not take place in a society with "evolved sensibilities". That's why every major battle during the Dominion War was inevitably followed by scenes of humans solemnly mourning the dead.

Yes, I forget which episode it is but when the FKR Alliance finally takes Cardassia and General Martok wants to celebrate a victory and all Admiral Ross and Captain Sisko can think about is all the poor Cardassians that were killed......cry me a fucking river.

Don't forget that the Cardassians saved the day in a previous fleet battle, what the fuck is up with that? In fact I don't think the Federation starfleet ever came in kicking lots of ass nor were actually made as the heros in a fleet engagement.

The Romulans were....(well sorta they opened up a major offensive and saved several Federation worlds from the Dominion)
The Klingons were....
Even the Cardassians were....

Pisses me off.....

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-12-02 07:39am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:

Yes, I forget which episode it is but when the FKR Alliance finally takes Cardassia and General Martok wants to celebrate a victory and all Admiral Ross and Captain Sisko can think about is all the poor Cardassians that were killed......cry me a fucking river.

What Sisko and Ross were sad/angry at is the fact that the Dominion had turned on them and attempted to commit Genocide. The Cardasians had started to rise up aginst the Dominion and in return, 800 MILLION of them were killed by the Jem'Hadar in return and their planet laid to waste. Martok was gloating and drinking bloodwine in the classic tradition over the slaughtered bodies and wreckage of central command. Ross and Sisko did not say that they were unhappy the war had ended, just that they simply didn't feal the need to lord over the horrors and war and bodies of their vanquished foes.

Don't forget that the Cardassians saved the day in a previous fleet battle, what the fuck is up with that? In fact I don't think the Federation starfleet ever came in kicking lots of ass nor were actually made as the heros in a fleet engagement.

The Cardasians switching sides led to total chaos in the Dominion fleets, your allies next to you suddenly blasting at you would understandably be a bit disturbing. The UFP fleet was right in the thick of the fighting trying to bull their way in, the Romulans had been hammered very badly and were starting to collapse. The Federation always appeared to provide the core of the fleets, the Klingons blew a short hole in Sac of Angles for the Defiant to get through and thats about it. The Romulans got the snot beaten out of them in Tears of the Prophets (dito the Klingons) and the Federation saved the day...

Though I do agree that the UFP often was written into horrible situations where some DeusEx mania allied fleet had to pull them out of.

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-12-02 10:05am

Don´t forget, that for the final episodes of DS9 the Klingons were carrying the major burden of the fights since their ships were somehow immune to the weapons of the new Dominion-allies, the Breen.

In one of those episodes it was also said, that Gowron was wasting 1,500 Klingon-ships by stupid tactics and by trying to make Martok look like a fool.

To come back at the topic of the Yuuzhan Vong vs. ST-milkyway:

They have comparable firepower to SW-ships (otherwise they would have been unable to overcome their shields) and like the Galactic Empire they have the strategic advantage of superior speed and communications.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-02 05:22pm

Good points, Chris.

I guess I'm just pissed off because ST is always protraying humans as being sympathetic to their enemies. I still wouldn't have felt anything for the Cardassians they turned their back on the AQ, they asked for that tradegy

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-12-02 08:45pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote:Good points, Chris.

I guess I'm just pissed off because ST is always protraying humans as being sympathetic to their enemies. I still wouldn't have felt anything for the Cardassians they turned their back on the AQ, they asked for that tradegy

True enough. But I would make the point it was more Dukut who turned his back. Cardasia had been preaty much defeated by the Klingons and were now a third rate power. Dukut made the deal with the devil and the typical Cardasian soldier living in the 'big brother' state simply accepted it. They didn't realy know what they were getting into until Damars speach to them.

Though I feal like I agree with both Martok AND Sisko/Ross. I would want to gloat over the Cardasians defeat but be somewhat numbed by the massive death the Jem'Hadar had wreaked.

Hang on I have that whole sceen somewhere....ah:

155 EXT. CARDASSIA - STREET - DAY

Rubble, smoke and fires everywhere. Buildings are
either collapsed or burnt-out shells. Bodies litter
the streets.

156 CARDASIAN CENTRAL COMMAND

to see Sisko, Martok and Ross standing amid the
wreckage; each holding a glass of bloodwine. In his
other hand, Martok holds the bottle of bloodwine.

MARTOK
This is a moment worth savoring.
(raising his glass)
To victory -- hard fought and
well earned.

Martok drains his drink, but neither Sisko nor Ross
partake. They're too busy looking at the
destruction that surrounds them.

MARTOK
Something wrong?

SISKO
Suddenly, I'm not thirsty.

ROSS
Neither am I.

157 CLOSER ON MARTOK

as he drains his glass.

MARTOK
Before you waste too many
tears... remember, those are
Cardassians lying dead at your
feet...
(re: the
devastation)
The Bajorans would call this
poetic justice...

SISKO
That still doesn't mean I have to
drink a toast over their bodies.

With that, Sisko pours his bloodwine onto the
ground. Ross does the same, then they both EXIT,
leaving Martok alone in the room

The Chancellor shrugs, "humans -- go figure." He
then looks at the bottle of bloodwine in his hand,
tilts it to his lips, and takes a long swallow. WE
HOLD on Martok, looking quite contented, gazing out
at the devastation.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2003-12-02 08:57pm

See my Star Trek/Star Wars crossover, 'The Best of Both Wolrds'.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-12-03 02:07am

Dovin Basals might generate miniature Force storms, actually. We know those can "suck" things in/destroy them, they appear to affect energy as well (or maybe generate it) they seem to "warp" space and time...

Given the whole "Onimi" thing and all the other revelations in "The Unifying Force", the whole Organic-wanking thing about the Vong seems largely to stem from some sort of ability for their technology to "Tap" into the Force to some degree.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-03 02:13am

Chris OFarrell wrote:Hang on I have that whole sceen somewhere....ah:

Yes, I remember it. As always, the Klingon is the bloodthirsty psycho while the humans are the reserved, solemn, regretful reluctant soldiers.

Sorry, but somebody somewhere is going to celebrate when the Dominion War ends. It's not unreasonable to portray this, for fuck's sake. Even the pompous Babylon 5 Shadow War story arc finale included people celebrating on B5, not sitting around crying into their beer about all the people who died during that war.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-12-03 02:16am

Darth Wong wrote: Sorry, but somebody somewhere is going to celebrate when the Dominion War ends. It's not unreasonable to portray this, for fuck's sake. Even the pompous Babylon 5 Shadow War story arc finale included people celebrating on B5, not sitting around crying into their beer about all the people who died during that war.

a

You can be assured Londo would never cry over it, at least. Especially if there was alcohol

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-03 02:27am

Chris OFarrell wrote:
True enough. But I would make the point it was more Dukut who turned his back. Cardasia had been preaty much defeated by the Klingons and were now a third rate power. Dukut made the deal with the devil and the typical Cardasian soldier living in the 'big brother' state simply accepted it. They didn't realy know what they were getting into until Damars speach to them.

Though I feal like I agree with both Martok AND Sisko/Ross. I would want to gloat over the Cardasians defeat but be somewhat numbed by the massive death the Jem'Hadar had wreaked.

Hang on I have that whole sceen somewhere....ah:

The Cardassians simply didn't want to be on the losing side....it is pathetic. What is even worse is they were on the winning side to begin with!

Even when the Federation broke their long standing alliance with the Klingons to help the Cardassians how do the Cardassians repay them? The Cardassians run and join the Dominion.

At least you can trust the Klingons the Narendra Three Outpost incident anyone? They didn't go running off to side with whoever they thought was better.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2003-12-03 04:37am

There's an interesting what-if. What if the Federation decided to shrug it's shoulders and let the Klingons tear the Cardassians a new one in the first place?

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2003-12-03 07:41am

Darth Wong wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:Hang on I have that whole sceen somewhere....ah:
Yes, I remember it. As always, the Klingon is the bloodthirsty psycho while the humans are the reserved, solemn, regretful reluctant soldiers.

Sorry, but somebody somewhere is going to celebrate when the Dominion War ends. It's not unreasonable to portray this, for fuck's sake. Even the pompous Babylon 5 Shadow War story arc finale included people celebrating on B5, not sitting around crying into their beer about all the people who died during that war.

Yes and when the crew got back to B5, they had a big party in the holosweet celebrating the end of the war. Duh. But Sisko and Ross didn't see the point of tosting the victory of the allience in the ruins of Cardasian civilisation...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2003-12-03 07:55am

Chris OFarrell wrote:Yes and when the crew got back to B5, they had a big party in the holosweet celebrating the end of the war. Duh. But Sisko and Ross didn't see the point of tosting the victory of the allience in the ruins of Cardasian civilisation...

A freudian slip there Chris?

FTeik · Post by **FTeik** » 2003-12-03 03:20pm

First, it were the Klingons, who broke the "long-standing alliance" with the Federation and second, what help did the Federation really offer to the Cardassians aside from a dozen industrial replicators?

Did they help them to get their worlds back?

Did they help them to protect their convoys from marauding Klingons?

Protect their own emissaries to the Cardassians, that were slaughtered by the Klingons? (the episode where Gul Dukat got himself this BoP)

Of course not, since they were to much afraid, that the Dominion would exploit the situation of a Feddie-Klingon-War. And while this might have been right from a strategic point of view, the Cardassians were still fucked up the ass.

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-12-03 10:04pm

NecronLord wrote:
Chris OFarrell wrote:Yes and when the crew got back to B5, they had a big party in the holosweet celebrating the end of the war. Duh. But Sisko and Ross didn't see the point of tosting the victory of the allience in the ruins of Cardasian civilisation...
A freudian slip there Chris?

Can't they get regular sweets in B5?

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

What would happen if the Yuuzhan Vong invaded Star Trek?

Re: I see its function more as a pinpoint barrier system...

Re: I see its function more as a pinpoint barrier system...