Was Vader being groomed?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-12-02 09:34pm

It is rather obvious that the Empire was designed to simply collapse without him as we see in ROTJ and other EU sources. Yet Darth vader is the very public #2 man. Is it true that Vader would have inherited the throne say should Palpatine slip and fall as he was exiting the bathtub? Or would other factions have risen up to counter and challenge Vader? Is there any sign in the EU that the Emperor publically or privately declared Vader his heir and would Vader have risen to that post - considering his apparent distaste at leading as he expressed in AOTC.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-02 09:39pm

Actually not much really.

Most of the EU points to either the Emperor never dying persay(DE) or Vader essentially plotting the way of Empire.

Literally the whole Vader/Palpatine dynamic was basically them pitted against each other in a war of wills with the Empire being the prize. Vader literally needed Luke because on his own he never figured out a way. Palpatine used Vader because well he was the best man for the job until he saw Luke come along and saw a fitter, younger, more moldable Vader II.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-12-02 09:42pm

Darth Vader was not the heir apparent to the Empire, as Palpatine designed the Empire to collapse without him, because of course Palpatine had a back-up plan (clones) for any forseeable set backs.

Darth Vader in fact, was not a popular figure in the Imperial admiralty (Admiral Motti expressed distaste for Vader's "sorcerous ways" in ANH). Later after the death of the Emperor, General Veers of Hoth fame would have difficulty securing a position of power with any of the rogue Imperial warlords because of his affiliation with Darth Vader.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-02 09:44pm

Veers survived Hoth?

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-12-02 09:46pm

There was absolutely, positively no method of succession because the Emperor never planned to die (ref: The Dark Empire Sourcebook).

There was no legal or otherwise unofficial method for the transference of powers. None.

In accordance with canon policy, since this information does not in any way outrightly contradict the content or intent of the Star Wars films, it is canonical and legitimate as a part of the official Star Wars Saga.

Vader was never to replace Palpatine, save perhaps in his own traitorous designs.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-02 10:02pm

Because of the lack of a line of succession, didn't Sate Pestage appoint himself acting Emperor for a time?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-12-02 10:09pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Because of the lack of a line of succession, didn't Sate Pestage appoint himself acting Emperor for a time?

He does, but the de facto rulers of the Empire in the Emperor's absence would be the committee of moffs (in their deadly Moffships holding awe-inspiring Moffrences no less).

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-02 10:12pm

God, I should hit you just for mentioning that crap...

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-12-02 10:13pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Because of the lack of a line of succession, didn't Sate Pestage appoint himself acting Emperor for a time?

Sate Pestage merely assumed executive and dictatorial powers from his post as Grand Vizier in the Emperor's absence. These powers were shared with the motlely group of advisors known as the Emperor's Ruling Council.

(Note: It is likely this Sate Pestage was a clone purposely set up as a leader by the real Sate Pestage who was busy preparing and organizing on Byss, and looking for Palpatine--who was trapped within Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga).

That Council would assume authority in conjunction with the collective of the Moffs after Isard's abdication of power and until Thrawn's emurgence.

No one ever assumed the title Emperor save for the former slave lord from Kessel, Trioculous, and the Chairman of the Interim Ruling Council (by then defunct), Xandel Carivus. One should note however that neither legitimately had any claim whatsoever to that title.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2003-12-03 01:52am

Veers survived Hoth?

Uhhh... Why wouldn't he have? Yes, he survived Hoth.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-03 01:54am

Rogue 9 wrote:
Veers survived Hoth?
Uhhh... Why wouldn't he have? Yes, he survived Hoth.

Mostly because the ESB novel has him and Hobbie crashing into each other.

But since Hobbie is used throughout EU as the same Hobbie I believe somewhere people have resolved that the events within the novel didn't happen in that particular fashion.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-03 01:55am

Yeah, as Ghost says, I was aware that the ESB novelisation has him dying when a snowspeeder rams his AT-AT.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2003-12-03 02:00am

And then somehow destroying the power generator after his death? That makes no sense.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-03 02:01am

Rogue 9 wrote:And then somehow destroying the power generator after his death? That makes no sense.

Actually even in the novel he destroyed the generators before hand.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-03 02:01am

Rogue 9 wrote:And then somehow destroying the power generator after his death? That makes no sense.

No, he was killed after that happened, dimbulb...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2003-12-03 03:20am

Vader atleast thought he could rule the empire, he had some pretty grand plans aswell:
========================
Pg. 129: Despite his advances and intricate technological methods of annihilation, the actions of mankind remained unnoticeable to an uncaring, unimaginably vast universe. If Vader's grandest plans ever came to pass, all that would change.
========================
-Star Wars IV: A New Hope Novellization

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2003-12-03 10:47am

IIRC the script also has Veers surviving. Its commonly accepted that the Novel is incorrect in this instance because other EU sources were allowed to print Veers having survived and Hobbie also surviving.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-03 02:36pm

Well, according to the canon policy, isn't a direct contradiction of canon (ie: the novel is canon, the EU books and comics are only quasi-canon) a case where we have to go with canon?

Or is this another instance of Lucasfilm simply fudging it for the fans (sort of like Boba Fett being still alive... GL states that Fett definately died in the Sarlacc in ROTJ and yet he simultaneously approved Fett's return in the EU saying he didn't die)?

IIRC the script also has Veers surviving. Its commonly accepted that the Novel is incorrect in this instance because other EU sources were allowed to print Veers having survived and Hobbie also surviving.

Oops, I missed your post. Which canon source is higher, the script or the novel? If the script is higher and says he survives, then I guess that resolves it.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-12-04 01:48am

Veers survives, but is confined to a repulsor-chair for the rest of his days.

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2003-12-04 02:18am

With the cloning chambers on Byss? Not bloody likely. Anakin was to Palpatine, simply a tool through which he could accomplish his goals faster: Kill the Jedi & Dooku, overthrow the Senate, etc. He just proved useful in keeping around afterwards in running the Empire in areas he would not touch.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2003-12-04 02:53am

I suspect Vader didn't have a clue about the clones on Byss.

That said, Vader is the only one with the power, abilities, and reputation to take over should Palpatine finally bite it. I suspect that despite Palpatine's designs, any sith could have held the post since it was through those abilities that he held it.

Sharp-kun · Post by **Sharp-kun** » 2003-12-04 08:07am

Kurgan wrote:Well, according to the canon policy, isn't a direct contradiction of canon (ie: the novel is canon, the EU books and comics are only quasi-canon) a case where we have to go with canon?

As Lucas allows the use of Hobbie and Veers in the EU, I would say that they've overruled the novel.

Boba Fett · Post by **Boba Fett** » 2003-12-04 09:19am

Well, the Dark Horse comic: Betrayal shows an unsuccessful coup d'etat against Palpatine's reign by Moffs and high ranking officers just before BoY.

It failed of course since the Emperor knew about it since the planning phase.
Those involved tried to get rid of Lord Vader too.

After Palpy's death Vader would be in charge but I'm sure that many would oppose him.

Vader would win at the end but he would have to fight on two fronts.
On one front against the rebel scums and on the other front against the trecherous imperial forces.

Although Palpy never said so, it's quite logical that Vader was meant to be his heir.
In the Sith society, since Darth Bane - as long as the apprentice doesn't fail his master - he is the heir of the master's knowledge and power since he'll be the next master and he's the only one who can teach the next apprentice...and the Sith must not die!

That doesn't mean of course that Palpy should never choose another apprentice/heir.

vakundok · Post by **vakundok** » 2003-12-04 10:05am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:And then somehow destroying the power generator after his death? That makes no sense.
No, he was killed after that happened, dimbulb...

Are you sure? As I remember, the walkers fired to the retreating rebels, he targeted the generator when all notes disappeared from the targeting screen just before fireing and then Hobbie crashed.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-04 10:23am

vakundok wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:
Rogue 9 wrote:And then somehow destroying the power generator after his death? That makes no sense.
No, he was killed after that happened, dimbulb...
Are you sure? As I remember, the walkers fired to the retreating rebels, he targeted the generator when all notes disappeared from the targeting screen just before fireing and then Hobbie crashed.

Given that both the movie and novel agree that Veers' walker destroyed the Shield generator...I'd say got hit afterwards.