Ground combat

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-12-04 05:03am

Darth Wong wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:Mind you, it would be interesting to see how long it would take to mobilize a planet against said imp force given such criteria.
It would depend on how the new rulers treated them. If nothing much seemed to initially change in their living conditions, you'd have a hell of a time mobilizing anyone to do anything. Particularly when they're so badly underequipped and inexperienced for the conflict. If it was written by one of the X-Wing novel authors, the new Imperial rulers would immediately start randomly rounding up peoples' children and shooting them, so there would eventually be organized resistance. In 5 generations or so

Earth: the pleasure planet of an Empire. Came, saw, bent 'em over a barrel

Another reason to shoot the B&B brothers.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2003-12-04 06:30am

The time taken to motivate and mobilize troops will depend on how sudden the invasion is, my original post envisaged a massive armada leaving a forward base somewhere in the uncontroled section of the federation. Striking out at all known fleet bases and ship yards before concentrating and eliminating the UFP fleets. This would be accomplished within weeks, at first (for the federation they wouldn't understand the empire not occupying planets) till they realize it is simply to remove the ability to defend space round planets or reinforce them. After that ground combat would begin with assault landings by troops which given the size of the UFP and the Imperial army would probably mean 1-2 battalions per planet. There would not be time for the federation to create standing armies.

The militia I imagine being used by inexpirienced commanders like front line troops - and slaughtered in very very short order. After that I would use the "fire brigade" system to rush troops to hot spots as they flare up. Imperial intelligence will naturally begin a hearts and minds campaign with "The Federation abandoned you and left you defenseless we care about you and have corrected this...."

So once you can demonstrate that nowhere is beyond your reach and your "good" intentions I doubt much of a resistance movement would spring up. The main problem would be to take most of the infrastructure intact to support the population, if your opponants <most likely fed star fleet intelligence> manage to disrupt or destroy it you could have a somewhat hostile populous.

Do you think im wrong?

Post by **The Yosemite Bear** » 2003-12-04 08:30am

YEah, just sieze the central power plant....

Damn there's Stormtroopers on the street, we need to set up a resistance
Computer replicate me a fully charged phasor rifle.

I am sorry, you are not authorized for this, you illegal request has been sent to the central database, besides such request would place you over your replicator power ration.

Ted C · Post by **Ted C** » 2003-12-04 10:21am

Darth Wong wrote:What are they going to do, throw rocks?

It works for Ewoks

I think I'll run screaming before I get incinerated now.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2003-12-04 10:42am

Can a replicator produce anything no matter how complex?. I rather assumed *ahem* that a small number of phasor rifles would be hidden for later even if there was only a few hours notice that the empire was coming through like the indian pacific. If a replicator can produce anything and the feds have cloning tech then they couldn't be beaten - after all just replicate me 10, 000 sovereign class ships O'brian. As for rocks and Ewoks it comes back to something that will penetrate the armour - two 200ft long trees will do nicely, terrain (jungle so tight and dense that an AT-AT cannot traverse it) will and morale. In many cases even a blow that does not penetrate armour will cause concussion damage (like a mace or the feared horseman's hammer) like bruising or even breaking bones. In effect the Ewoks were lucky if they lived on Tatooine they would have been wiped out in ten minutes or less.

Post by **Ghost Rider** » 2003-12-04 10:53am

Nope replicators need material and a sufficent amount to begin to replicating simple items let alone anything as complex as a Phaser rifle.

Also 10,000 Soverigns is 10,000 large pigeon targets to the Empire.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2003-12-04 11:31am

Cool thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure but didn't think a replicator would solve all their problems... and it wouldn't matter if they were clay pidgeons as long as they move shoot and are available in overwhelming quantities. Star fleet have a problem in that not only do they have a numerical disadvantage they have a less powerfull fleet ship for ship. I have yet to see ANY trekkie come up with tactics that might even that out.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2003-12-04 11:38am

harbringer wrote:Cool thanks for the clarification, I wasn't sure but didn't think a replicator would solve all their problems... and it wouldn't matter if they were clay pidgeons as long as they move shoot and are available in overwhelming quantities. Star fleet have a problem in that not only do they have a numerical disadvantage they have a less powerfull fleet ship for ship. I have yet to see ANY trekkie come up with tactics that might even that out.

Actually, many had tried to overcome overwhelming inferiorites in both categories, which multiply to become an even more overwhelming inferiority. Just that not many made practical ideas.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2003-12-04 11:58am

Well, to be fair, the one advantage I see is warp. Yes, I know its many times slower than hyperspace travel, but you can see out and execute maneuvers while in warp. While in hyperspace, you only know conditions as they were before you jumped, and if they change you could be screwed. A Sovereign might be able to evade the Imperial Navy for a long time. It couldn't beat the Imperial Navy, but evasion's a damned sight better than dying.

Kazuaki Shimazaki · Post by **Kazuaki Shimazaki** » 2003-12-04 12:04pm

Rogue 9 wrote:Well, to be fair, the one advantage I see is warp. Yes, I know its many times slower than hyperspace travel, but you can see out and execute maneuvers while in warp. While in hyperspace, you only know conditions as they were before you jumped, and if they change you could be screwed. A Sovereign might be able to evade the Imperial Navy for a long time. It couldn't beat the Imperial Navy, but evasion's a damned sight better than dying.

With the proper equipment, you could detect changes and even take corrective action - see Emancipator vs Allegiance in Dark Empire.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-12-04 01:01pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Would the klingons or romulans have any better luck?
Romulan ground forces are a big question mark, so I think we have to leave that as "unresolved".

Are they a big question mark? In "Nemesis" we saw some Reman shock troops. And they sucked. If everyone had marskmanship as bad as theirs, then it might explain why the Klingons always forego ranged weapons. I cannot emphasize enough the craptaculance of the Remans we saw. Their tactics and abilities were utterly pathetic. Since the Romulans were essentially using them as cannon fodder, I think it's pretty safe to assume that they wouldn't bother equipping them with a lot of heavy equipment that is unprecedented in the annals of Trek (ie. AFV's, heavy artillery, etc.). If anything, I laugh more at the Remans than at the sword-wielding Klingons, since the Klingons are fighting for honor and the Remans are just incompetent. The Reman "boarding party" was possibly the worst excuse for an assault team in the history of cinema, with no heavy weapons, exceptionally poor tactics, and the worst marksmanship that I have ever seen! They didn't even carry hand-grenades, their weapons didn't even damage the walls of the E-E, and their performance on the Scimitar was, if anything, WORSE! I am not impressed with the Romulan "ground forces" we've seen.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2003-12-09 10:51am

Trek rely on ships and security personel to hold planets

im sure that anything more complex than basic weaponry would lead to casualties. "Just pull the pin and throw it......NO DON'T THROW THE PIN!!!"

Have we ever seen basic shipboard security officers do any better than the romulans? is this an indication of general skill levels?

Post by **Kuja** » 2003-12-09 11:54am

harbringer wrote:Have we ever seen basic shipboard security officers do any better than the romulans? is this an indication of general skill levels?

Considering that nobody on the E-E thought to do something as simple as TURN UP THE LIGHTS, a trick that would've rendered the Reman boarding party utterly helpless, I'd say their skill is just as bad.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2003-12-09 01:22pm

harbringer wrote:Have we ever seen basic shipboard security officers do any better than the romulans? is this an indication of general skill levels?

Odo and his team did better defending DS9, but only because they were better marksmen (read: They could hit people standing 5 meters away from them, reliably). Worf, if anything, was just about as bad. While his marksmanship may be better than that of the Remans, it was still pretty craptacular, but more importantly he and his crew have repeatedly allowed the ship to be boarded and seized by hostiles, and during the Reman fight his crew demonstrated astounding incompetence.

Rogue 9 · Post by **Rogue 9** » 2003-12-09 01:28pm

From the List of Vows Every Starship Captain Should Take.

The List wrote:If my ship is constantly being invaded/bugged/robbed/taken over I will replace my chief security officer, no matter how cool a character he is.

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2003-12-10 12:15pm

If my ship is constantly being invaded/bugged/robbed/taken over I will replace my chief security officer, no matter how cool a character he is.

Or offer his astounding professional advice to the invading party perhaps

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2003-12-10 03:15pm

The Yosemite Bear wrote: I am sorry, you are not authorized for this, you illegal request has been sent to the central database

"The kiwis in the white clothes are your friends"
"Mmm... kiwis..."

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-12-11 07:19am

Shogoki wrote:
The Yosemite Bear wrote: I am sorry, you are not authorized for this, you illegal request has been sent to the central database
"The kiwis in the white clothes are your friends"
"Mmm... kiwis..."

Given that Tem Morrison is the source for the clones, I can imagine why they took over a galaxy
"Cook us some fukin eggs Woman" *cue 'Once were Warriors' soundtrack*
They only lost on Endor because of amount of drink they binged on the night before.

Shogoki · Post by **Shogoki** » 2003-12-11 08:05am

I was actually thinking about the kiwi jail keepers from ST, as they are about to be transported to the house of the offender to take him away for "re-education"

harbringer · Post by **harbringer** » 2003-12-11 08:15am

Try getting into a pub in bondi

. seriously though my g/f would make me suffer if I said anything bad about Maori people in any universe

. I am sure they are very nice peacefull people who get a bad rep

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-12-11 08:29pm

harbringer wrote:Try getting into a pub in bondi . seriously though my g/f would make me suffer if I said anything bad about Maori people in any universe . I am sure they are very nice peacefull people who get a bad rep

Lol. Ask any former German Paratrooper what he thinks of Maori or NZ in general

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2003-12-11 09:04pm

Stuart Mackey wrote:
harbringer wrote:Try getting into a pub in bondi . seriously though my g/f would make me suffer if I said anything bad about Maori people in any universe . I am sure they are very nice peacefull people who get a bad rep
Lol. Ask any former German Paratrooper what he thinks of Maori or NZ in general

That scenario is in CMAK (Counterattack at Galatas villiage) and just got my ass handed to me by the NZ infantry

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-12-11 09:21pm

Burak Gazan wrote:
Stuart Mackey wrote:
harbringer wrote:Try getting into a pub in bondi . seriously though my g/f would make me suffer if I said anything bad about Maori people in any universe . I am sure they are very nice peacefull people who get a bad rep
Lol. Ask any former German Paratrooper what he thinks of Maori or NZ in general
That scenario is in CMAK (Counterattack at Galatas villiage) and just got my ass handed to me by the NZ infantry

CMAK?
Well if you want a hint..NZ communications is why we lost Crete

..not that we could have, or should have, held it.

Burak Gazan · Post by **Burak Gazan** » 2003-12-11 10:39pm

Heh, yeah but they did ok in that fight

Stuart Mackey · Post by **Stuart Mackey** » 2003-12-11 10:51pm

Burak Gazan wrote:Heh, yeah but they did ok in that fight

Not really, we lost. More to the point we were underequipped and had fuck all ammunition..the Germans dominatred the sky and we lost far to many troops...still we paid the Germans back in spades .