Knife Killer stalks London

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-12-07 11:39am

Long Links I love 'em!

London knife attacker who killed US jogger has struck again: police

LONDON (AFP) - A knife-wielding attacker who killed a young US woman in a seemingly motiveless attack as she jogged in a London park earlier this year is likely to have struck again, police said.

Detectives think it is very probable that the
same man who killed 27-year-old artist Margaret Muller in February stabbed a 39- year-old woman runner nearby on Friday.

The latest victim -- who was jogging in a park in east London only two miles from where Muller was murdered -- was seriously injured and only survived because a passing doctor tended to her.

Women in the area have been warned by police not to go out alone.

In Friday's attack, a man ran up behind the as-yet unnamed woman and stabbed her in the torso, Detective Chief Superintendent Jon Shatford said during a press conference Sunday at the attack scene.

The parallels with Muller's murder were clear and worrying, he said.

"Both were out jogging, both were stabbed by an individual where there was no sexual motive and no robbery apparent.

"We can only conclude that the reason for both these attacks is the self- gratification of whoever committed this very nasty crime," Shatford said, noting that like the murdered American artist, the latest victim was of small build.

"He had selected her for a reason. She was a fairly slight built woman and he clearly felt he had power over her."

The similarities were so striking that it seemed certain "we are looking for the same person," Shatford said, adding that only the actions of the passing doctor on Friday "stopped this from being an actual murder investigation".

Muller, a painter from Virginia studying at London's famous Slade art school, was found lying in a pool of blood with a stab wound to the neck after a morning jog in Victoria Park, in the Hackney area of east London.

The latest victim was attacked in nearby Clissold Park.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-07 11:54am

Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2003-12-07 01:19pm

Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.

yes because a gun ban is going to stop someone armed with a knife

you also don't see all that many security cameras in parks, only on the "rough" estates and the city center.

It isn't actually london city, its hackney.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 01:42pm

Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.

Great faux argument there, fucktard. Yes, because we know the UK should get rid of gun bans and become as paranoid and delusional as most Americans, that'll certainly make the streets safer. And let's burn those CCTV cameras, yes, the ones that help aid in making criminals think twice and as evidence in court.

Idiot.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-12-07 02:15pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote: Idiot.

Despite all this, and bans on knives, people are still getting stabbby stabbed
to death. I recall a case where a Briton was actually arrested because he
had a box cutter from his job as a stocker in his pocket.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-12-07 02:18pm

Course, we also have CCTVs in 7-11s, and it doesn't stop clerks from being
shotgunned to death in one of the most dangerous jobs in amerika

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 02:19pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote: Idiot.
Despite all this, and bans on knives, people are still getting stabbby stabbed
to death. I recall a case where a Briton was actually arrested because he
had a box cutter from his job as a stocker in his pocket.

You can't stop violence, it's a human trait, we can minimise it and that's where the gun ban came in. I can still happily go down to the gun shop across the street and buy a 12-gauge shotgun if I have a valid reason, they also have cross bows, swords, machetes, knives and all sorts.

Only a naive person would think what the law does here is eliminate crime completely, the best you can do is limit it and it's unfortunate that this happened, but if the guy couldn't somehow get a knife (yeah right) he'd have used something else. Getting smacked over the head by a rock in a sling is equally nasty.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-07 02:19pm

Zac Naloen wrote:
Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.
yes because a gun ban is going to stop someone armed with a knife

It's a statement saying that, even though guns are banned, people still find ways to kill if they want to. It only weakens the law abiding.

you also don't see all that many security cameras in parks, only on the "rough" estates and the city center.

It isn't actually london city, its hackney.

Ah, my mistake, I was thinking they were much more widespread.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2003-12-07 02:20pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote: Only a naive person would think what the law does here is eliminate crime completely,

Well, that's what we have over here in the States with our fuckshit gun
control organizations

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 02:21pm

Yes, it's unfortunate that this took place in an open area with limited if any surveillance. In Lancaster, we do have at least one van with CCTV cameras patrol at night if the clubs are busy or if there's another event, but cameras cannot be everywhere even in this Big Brother wannabe land when it comes to cameras.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-07 02:22pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.
Great faux argument there, fucktard. Yes, because we know the UK should get rid of gun bans and become as paranoid and delusional as most Americans, that'll certainly make the streets safer. And let's burn those CCTV cameras, yes, the ones that help aid in making criminals think twice and as evidence in court.

Idiot.

It's a simple observation showing, like I stated, that people are going to find ways to kill, no matter what is banned.

Nice way to keep a civil discussion going.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 02:31pm

Nathan F wrote:
Admiral Valdemar wrote:
Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.
Great faux argument there, fucktard. Yes, because we know the UK should get rid of gun bans and become as paranoid and delusional as most Americans, that'll certainly make the streets safer. And let's burn those CCTV cameras, yes, the ones that help aid in making criminals think twice and as evidence in court.

Idiot.
It's a simple observation showing, like I stated, that people are going to find ways to kill, no matter what is banned.

Nice way to keep a civil discussion going.

I'm sorry, but flat out accusations of a system that so far works are not good argumentative points. I hardly see America being amazingly safer with all those guns around; if guns meant safety then America would be a utopia. It does not.

I see this will likely drag into another gun control debate; if that's the case I'm leaving it like this. We have seen that both nations in this debate are entirely different in thinking and culture; it's simply folly to think one set of rules will work with both.

I feel safe at night even in a fairly large town, there has never been any act of violence against me in the street in my life and I'm twenty tomorrow. I know other areas are not so fortunate, but you get homicides everywhere and what tool they use is up to them. A gun makes an easier killing and I'm glad this guy didn't get one.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-12-07 02:35pm

I'm behind Chris Rock on this one, what we need is bullet control, not gun control. When bullets cost $5000 each people will think before puttnig ten of them into someone, and when you find a person shot up, you know they had to have some something really bad.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 02:37pm

kojikun wrote:I'm behind Chris Rock on this one, what we need is bullet control, not gun control. When bullets cost $5000 each people will think before puttnig ten of them into someone, and when you find a person shot up, you know they had to have some something really bad.

That was fucking hilarious and it came from Chris Rock!

Hmm, Bowling For Columbine was premiered last night and it was mildly entertaining (if little on answers).

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-12-07 02:46pm

For fuck's sake.

Yeah, gun's are the answer...

How exactly would they have helped here?

Oh wait, they wouldnt. So, instead of having a sicko with access to long range killing devices, we've got one who has to get within arms length of someone to harm them....

As for sheps wonderful point of someone being arrested for carrying a box cutter....here's a hint....9/11 what did they have? It wasnt guns was it? It was stanley knives.

I have on occasions overheard asshole neds on trains and the like talking about how if the police ask them why they have a stanley blade or a hole punch on them, they'll say they're doing carpentry....so I dont doubt someone was arrested for carrying a stanley blade, I'd be suprised if they were prosecuted if the circumstances were entirely innocent. The law here does provide for the movement of tools of your trade provided they are safely bound and you dont do anything stupid like fuck off down the pub with a knife in your pocket.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-07 03:01pm

Admiral Valdemar wrote: I see this will likely drag into another gun control debate; if that's the case I'm leaving it like this. We have seen that both nations in this debate are entirely different in thinking and culture; it's simply folly to think one set of rules will work with both.

That is a good observation, and I think I'll do the same.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2003-12-07 03:21pm

Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.

Good heavens, a crime, in the UK! That must mean our system of law and crime prevention has collapsed.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 03:27pm

Lord_Woodlouse wrote:
Nathan F wrote:Looks like massive gun bans and big-brother cameras are REALLY doing a good job here.
Good heavens, a crime, in the UK! That must mean our system of law and crime prevention has collapsed.

Chalk it off to gut reaction, I don't want to persue that remark as we know it's wrong now.

Oh, about damn time you made use of your SD.net account, Woodlouse.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2003-12-07 04:14pm

It would just be horrible if he killed a bunch more, then vanished, with no evidence whatsoever.

It'd be an eerie repeat of the Ripper killings, and would make all those crazies who theorized he was some sort of immortal killer or something feel validated.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 04:23pm

DPDarkPrimus wrote:It would just be horrible if he killed a bunch more, then vanished, with no evidence whatsoever.

It'd be an eerie repeat of the Ripper killings, and would make all those crazies who theorized he was some sort of immortal killer or something feel validated.

They wouldn't make a great film based off a graphic novel on one of the more interesting theories like From Hell though.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2003-12-07 04:47pm

there are plenty of rumours about who the ripper was, some of them being that he was a british nobleman, an alien, a butcher etc etc etc.

Besides, jack skinned his victims, stabbing them isn't his style.

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-12-07 05:21pm

Zac Naloen wrote:there are plenty of rumours about who the ripper was, some of them being that he was a british nobleman, an alien, a butcher etc etc etc.

Besides, jack skinned his victims, stabbing them isn't his style.

Don't forget, he removed organs and wrote to the police that he ate parts of them. He also mailed half a woman's liver to Scotland Yard, iirc.

There are some that believe the Ripper simply moved his base of operations from London to another, smaller city, according to one Discovery Channel show. The Ripper Scholar interviews believes he was actually an artist, the one that did a painting called "The Ripper's Bedroom" or something like that. The artist had been in London, then moved about the same time the Ripper Murders stopped... but the town where the artist moved too suddenly started experiencing similar murders.

Of course, many Discovery Channel shows of this nature have been highly spectualive of late... all flash and no substance.

Glocksman · Post by **Glocksman** » 2003-12-07 06:45pm

Oh wait, they wouldnt. So, instead of having a sicko with access to long range killing devices, we've got one who has to get within arms length of someone to harm them....

This guy probably wouldn't use a gun even if he had one.

Sickos like this use knives because they want to get close to their victims and it heightens the feeling of power and domination they get from the act.

Hell, Jack the Ripper could have obtained a firearm easily enough in 1890's London, yet chose to use knives.

Admiral Valdemar · Post by **Admiral Valdemar** » 2003-12-07 06:47pm

Glocksman wrote:
Oh wait, they wouldnt. So, instead of having a sicko with access to long range killing devices, we've got one who has to get within arms length of someone to harm them....
This guy probably wouldn't use a gun even if he had one.

Sickos like this use knives because they want to get close to their victims and it heightens the feeling of power and domination they get from the act.

Hell, Jack the Ripper could have obtained a firearm easily enough in 1890's London, yet chose to use knives.

The way the criminal mind works is tricky to understand, but you are right, certain methods of killing and patterns to killing make for the more sinister and harder to crack cases.

In the military it may be more efficient to shoot someone in the head and that's that, but this is a crime and it's shock value and meaning to the perp is what overrules killing efficiency most the time.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-07 06:49pm

Shep, Nathan, this news story has nothing to do with gun control one way or another. Why does everything have to be about gun control to you? It's not just this thread; you look for excuses to bring up gun control.

Anyway, this guy is obviously one of those fucko loser assholes who has no sense of power in his personal life and creates a sense of power for himself by sneaking up on weak targets and murdering them. It will be pure luck if they catch him.