The Japanese During World War 2

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:23am

(I don't know if this could be considered a rant or not, but it is something that I believe should be said, so here we go:)

A subject that isn't touched on very highly in most history classes are the atrocities and outright racism committed by the Japanese government and military during World War 2. Before thinking about this, we must first consider the psyche of some Japanese soldiers (some, not all) at the time. A warped version of the code of Bushido was ingrained into the Japanese soldiers from training, a code that included that the Japanese were superiour to all other, especially the Chinese and westerners. It also taught that surrender was intolerable and without honor, that you were to die in combat.

While watching a show on American POWs taken by the Japanese during the war on Dec. 7, the interviews were very, shall we say, eye opening, and something that shouldn't be forgotten.

Many have heard of the Bataan Death March, the forced march of POWs, mostly British, Australians, and Americans, to the horrendous Camp O'Donnell. But how much were we taught?

The Japanese held their prisoners to this same code of Bushido, which meant that the prisoners had no honor because they allowed themselves to be captured. We were never told how the Japanese would use the prisoners for sword practice, decapitating men who stumbled or weren't keeping up, or for no reason at all. One POW said he counted at least 2 bodies killed by sword every mile. After arrival at the camps, the prisoners were malnourished as bad if not worse as the prisoners in the German Concentration Camps. An entire camp of 10,000 was forced to use a single spigot of water.

That's not nearly the worst of the story, though.

Another thing most of us have heard of is the Rape of Nanking (or Nanjing). Japanese soldiers ran loose through the city, killing, stealing, and raping civilians, just because they could. Between December 1937 and March 1938 at least 369,000 Chinese civilians and prisoners of war were slaughtered by the invading troops in Manchuria. The Japanese performed biological warfare on the Chinese, dropping Plague, Anthrax, and other horrible diseases on the Chinese civilians.

But what we aren't always taught about is the infamous Unit 713 and the Japanese 'experiments' on POWs and other prisoners, things that would the Nazi 'doctors' look nearly humane. Prisoners were taken into their 'hospitals' and injected with every kind of disease and virus imaginable.

Prisoners were dissected alive, so young doctors could watch and see what the living human body looked like. Prisoners were tied to stakes and explosives were set off near them and then shot, so field medics could practice on the victims.

Prisoners were put in cages in the cold Asian winter to develop hypothermia and frost bite, so that the Japanese scientists could see the effects of each and test new treatments on them. POWs were regularly used as slave labor, sent into coal mines that had been previously closed because it hadn't been worth the risk to mine the small amounts of remaining coal.

The death rates among Japanese POWs was startling. A full 38% of Japan's POWs died, as compared to 1% of Germany's POWs.

Every prison camp was complete squalor, not dissimilar from the German concentration camps. Yet why do we never hear of the Japanese atrocities, yet every high school student is taught of the Holocaust. This is a subject that must be touched on more than it is. This is something that affected the US directly, but why aren't we told of why it happened?

I don't hold this against the entire Japanese people, but it's a different story with the Japanese government. They have yet to issue any sort of an apology, they ignore that it ever happened. I am possibly mistaken, but to my knowledge, WW2 barely gets a footnote, yet the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima is heavily touched on.

Some will accuse the US of committing atrocities against the AmerIndians, what with the forced migration of them to the western half of the continent. The difference lies in that we admit it, we devote national historic sites to the Trail of Tears, have returned a large reservation to the Cherokee in the Appalacians, and teach it heavily in school, as it should be done. I'm only calling for the Japanese government to do the same thing as the German government has done, acknowledge the atrocities and issue apologies to the rest of the world.

I only have one last thing to say, recently, the US offered indemnities to Japanese-Americans interred in American camps during the war, yet have the Japanese offered any sort of reparation or even acknowledgement to the survivors of their death camps and heinous experiments? No.

As I said, I don't hold this against the entire Japanese people, only against those who committed the crimes and the government that refuses to accept and acknowledge that it happened. They are a proud people with a rich history, but that doesn't exempt their leadership from acknowleding the sadistic crimes made in the recent past.

Just some food for thought.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:26am

I already knew about what happened, so none of its new to me.

So it goes.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:28am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I already knew about what happened, so none of its new to me.

So it goes.

You do, and so did I, but does your graduate from high school know about it?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:29am

My what?

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-09 01:29am

We've been here before...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:33am

Durran Korr wrote:We've been here before...

Indeed we have.
Though there is a difference between commiting brutal attrocities against war prisoners and imprisoning your own innocent citizens... But I don't want to extend it further.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-12-09 01:35am

I knew most of this already.

Is it non-PC to teach this stuff for fear of offending the Japanese?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:36am

Erm, I screwed up that sentence somehow, read it like this:

"You and I do, but does your average high school graduate know about it?"

And there's been a topic on this recently? Somehow I skipped that one... Oh well, if a mod sees fit, feel free to close this if it's too similar to the last one.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-12-09 01:37am

Nathan F wrote:Erm, I screwed up that sentence somehow, read it like this:

"You and I do, but does your average high school graduate know about it?"

And there's been a topic on this recently? Somehow I skipped that one... Oh well, if a mod sees fit, feel free to close this if it's too similar to the last one.

I just graduated high school, and we were told much of this stuff.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2003-12-09 01:37am

Nathan F wrote:I only have one last thing to say, recently, the US offered indemnities to Japanese-Americans interred in American camps during the war, yet have the Japanese offered any sort of reparation or even acknowledgement to the survivors of their death camps and heinous experiments? No.

I wonder if this has anything to do with the US government being the same while the Imperial Japanese government was destroyed?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:39am

Gandalf wrote:I knew most of this already.

Is it non-PC to teach this stuff for fear of offending the Japanese?

No, you can teach about the Japanese war crimes, but the Japanese government themselves deny that it happened to preserve face.

Nathan, there hasn't been a thread about this in a while, but it's just that everytime something like this is brought up, the discussion often turns kind of ugly and off topic real quick.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:40am

Worlds Spanner wrote:
Nathan F wrote:I only have one last thing to say, recently, the US offered indemnities to Japanese-Americans interred in American camps during the war, yet have the Japanese offered any sort of reparation or even acknowledgement to the survivors of their death camps and heinous experiments? No.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the US government being the same while the Imperial Japanese government was destroyed?

Actually, the basis of it is the same. The line of emperors has stayed the same (although it's just a figurehead position) and many of the ex-Imperial Japanese government figures were re-elected to positions of power, even some accused of serious war crimes but never tried.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:41am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Nathan, there hasn't been a thread about this in a while, but it's just that everytime something like this is brought up, the discussion often turns kind of ugly and off topic real quick.

We're big kids, I'd think we'd be able to keep a discussion on a past atrocity fairly civil...but you never know.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:44am

Well, honestly how much more can be said about it without the discussion swinging over to nukes, the US military as a whole during WW2, the Russians, Nazis, etc...?

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:47am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Well, honestly how much more can be said about it without the discussion swinging over to nukes, the US military as a whole during WW2, the Russians, Nazis, etc...?

Should prisoners be given reparations? There, that'll start some interesting discussion.

PainRack · Post by **PainRack** » 2003-12-09 01:47am

Nathan F wrote:Every prison camp was complete squalor, not dissimilar from the German concentration camps. Yet why do we never hear of the Japanese atrocities, yet every high school student is taught of the Holocaust. This is a subject that must be touched on more than it is. This is something that affected the US directly, but why aren't we told of why it happened?

There is considerable contention amongst Japanese historians over whether the squalor of the camps was due to neglect, rather than outright cruelty. No one outside of Japan really believes this but still.....

I don't hold this against the entire Japanese people, but it's a different story with the Japanese government. They have yet to issue any sort of an apology, they ignore that it ever happened. I am possibly mistaken, but to my knowledge, WW2 barely gets a footnote, yet the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima is heavily touched on.

Not really. WW2 is more the war started in 1937, the Americans started the war, we retialated in Pearl Harbor, then a huge jump until 1945 where Hiroshima and Nagasaki was bombed.

I only have one last thing to say, recently, the US offered indemnities to Japanese-Americans interred in American camps during the war, yet have the Japanese offered any sort of reparation or even acknowledgement to the survivors of their death camps and heinous experiments? No.

While Japan still denies any commitment of atrocities committed, symbolic payments of reparations have occured.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:48am

Prisoners in general or those that suffered?

Personally, I don't feel that a current government should have to apologise for something done by a former administration.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:50am

PainRack wrote:
I don't hold this against the entire Japanese people, but it's a different story with the Japanese government. They have yet to issue any sort of an apology, they ignore that it ever happened. I am possibly mistaken, but to my knowledge, WW2 barely gets a footnote, yet the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima is heavily touched on.
Not really. WW2 is more the war started in 1937, the Americans started the war, we retialated in Pearl Harbor, then a huge jump until 1945 where Hiroshima and Nagasaki was bombed.

The AMERICANS started the War?! Roosevelt cut off the Japanese oil supply from the US after the invasions of China, and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor after that to hopefully cripple the American fleet and secure their control of the Pacific, which worked for a little while.

Where did you learn that the Americans started the war?

And do tell me what kind of 'symbolic' reparations have been given.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-09 01:51am

Apologize? Maybe yes, maybe no. Acknowledge? Hell fucking yes, without delay.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:52am

Yes, they should aknowledge them, but then move on and don't dwell on them.

EDIT: "Them" being government administrations in general.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:55am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:Yes, they should aknowledge them, but then move on and don't dwell on them.

EDIT: "Them" being government administrations in general.

Those who ignore and forget history are bound to repeat it...

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-09 01:56am

Don't put words into my mouth or read things that I didn't say.

I didn't say "forget," I said "move on and don't dwell on them." There's a huge difference between the two concepts.

A current administration should not act like a bleading heart and feel guilty for something that nobody alive or in current power/office actually did.

Nathan F · Post by **Nathan F** » 2003-12-09 01:58am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:

Don't put words into my mouth or read things that I didn't say.

I didn't say "forget," I said "move on and don't dwell on them." There's a huge difference between the two concepts.

Ah, ok, I see. My apologies.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-09 02:19am

This is something that affected the US directly, but why aren't we told of why it happened?

Because it would be racism to call the Japanese to account for it. After all, only white males can commit atrocties or some horse shit.

There's not question that the liberal amounts of PC applied in the last few generations have lead to that being largely dropped, it was taught and frankly shouldn't be forgotten.

As for Japan, they need to acknowledge what they did, make an apology and do what they can to make restitution to the victims of their barabarism in World War Two.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-12-09 02:25am

PainRack wrote: Not really. WW2 is more the war started in 1937, the Americans started the war, we retialated in Pearl Harbor, then a huge jump until 1945 where Hiroshima and Nagasaki was bombed.

Wow, I didn't know that the cessation of trade was an act of war

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Japanese During World War 2

The Japanese During World War 2

Re: The Japanese During World War 2

Re: The Japanese During World War 2

Re: The Japanese During World War 2

Re: The Japanese During World War 2

Re: The Japanese During World War 2