fact, economists Laurence Kotlikoff and Jagadeesh Gokhale say that a typical man reaching age 65 today will get a net windfall of more than $70,000 over his remaining years. A luckless 25-year-old, by contrast, can count on paying $322,000 more in payroll taxes than he will ever get back in benefits.
if the youth need something to get outraged about then here it is: greedy senior citizens who spend a lifetime accumulating wealth and then demand the govenmnet support them in their later years. I say any senior with more than 500,000 in assets and 30,000 in other retirement income should have their social security income SLASHED!
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
WASHINGTON - U.S. and Mexican officials are discussing an agreement that would allow millions of Mexicans to return home and still collect U.S. Social Security benefits.
The controversial proposal that could transfer hundreds of millions of dollars in Social Security payments south of the border has riled some Republican lawmakers. They worry that it could reward scores of undocumented Mexican immigrants with a U.S. pension, draining the country's Social Security trust fund at a time when its future solvency is in doubt.
"Talk about an incentive for illegal immigration," said GOP Rep. Ron Paul of Texas. "How many more would break the law to come to this country if promised U.S. government paychecks for life?"
fact, economists Laurence Kotlikoff and Jagadeesh Gokhale say that a typical man reaching age 65 today will get a net windfall of more than $70,000 over his remaining years. A luckless 25-year-old, by contrast, can count on paying $322,000 more in payroll taxes than he will ever get back in benefits.
if the youth need something to get outraged about then here it is: greedy senior citizens who spend a lifetime accumulating wealth and then demand the govenmnet support them in their later years.
I don't know why you Americans seem to think that a program like Social Security should function like an investment account. Do you ask whether you get good value from your welfare dollar, or whether you pay more into it than you will personally get out? Of course not; you understand that the taxes you pay for the welfare system are just gone, and do not come back to you in any way. Social Security is just another form of welfare, only for old people.
I say any senior with more than 500,000 in assets and 30,000 in other retirement income should have their social security income SLASHED!
Agreed, since they can obviously survive without old-person welfare.
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I say any senior with more than 500,000 in assets and 30,000 in other retirement income should have their social security income SLASHED!
Agreed, since they can obviously survive without old-person welfare.
but that is not the case. There is a sense of entitlement among seniors, they view it as political turf and will fight tooth and nail any attempt at legitmate reform. Lets face it, a large chunk (if not a majority) of the senior citizen population in the US would fit the income/wealth criteria i stated above. All it takes to meet it is to own a home and have a modest IRA, 401K or pension. But it's like that's not enough. Meanwhile there are plenty of pols ready to shore up their re-election chances by pandering top these people, be it through scare tactics or just shoveling money down the chute. *cough* Ted Kennedy *cough*
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Arizona Central wrote:WASHINGTON - U.S. and Mexican officials are discussing an agreement that would allow millions of Mexicans to return home and still collect U.S. Social Security benefits.
The controversial proposal that could transfer hundreds of millions of dollars in Social Security payments south of the border has riled some Republican lawmakers. They worry that it could reward scores of undocumented Mexican immigrants with a U.S. pension, draining the country's Social Security trust fund at a time when its future solvency is in doubt.
"Talk about an incentive for illegal immigration," said GOP Rep. Ron Paul of Texas. "How many more would break the law to come to this country if promised U.S. government paychecks for life?"
I don't know why you Americans seem to think that a program like Social Security should function like an investment account.
The fact is, Social Security is supposed to a sort of government pension plan and that's the way it was sold to the American people for a long time. That's the intention any way, though everyone realizes it's just a way to bride the elderly at this point.
Most of us don't expect to get back the value of all we pay into it. But neither do most of us want to fork over a massive chunk of our paycheck which we'll never see again to pay it to seniors regardless of whether not they need it. We do expect it to be there to be able to support us as we need as well and at this rate we'll be paying out half our paychecks and stand no chance of receiving a dime.
One of the many reasons I'm in favor of serious reform of the Social Security system.
Col. Crackpot wrote:
Agreed, since they can obviously survive without old-person welfare.
but that is not the case. There is a sense of entitlement among seniors, they view it as political turf and will fight tooth and nail any attempt at legitmate reform. Lets face it, a large chunk (if not a majority) of the senior citizen population in the US would fit the income/wealth criteria i stated above. All it takes to meet it is to own a home and have a modest IRA, 401K or pension. But it's like that's not enough. Meanwhile there are plenty of pols ready to shore up their re-election chances by pandering top these people, be it through scare tactics or just shoveling money down the chute. *cough* Ted Kennedy *cough*
But for every person that fits that income/wealth criteria, there are 10 that are like my mother, having to carefully count her change until the next Security check comes in, hoping that she'll have enough to cover her doctor visits, pills, and bills.
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LadyTevar wrote:But for every person that fits that income/wealth criteria, there are 10 that are like my mother, having to carefully count her change until the next Security check comes in, hoping that she'll have enough to cover her doctor visits, pills, and bills.
And she's the kind of people it's meant to benefit and should benefit. But thanks to the greed of others (who are more common than you think) she's going to be even more screwed when the wheels come off the system.
Its sad to say, but I doubt that anything will be done untill the system crashes. Probably when the babyboomers overload it, but I'm sure it will happen way before I get close to needing/benifiting.
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But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Knife wrote:Its sad to say, but I doubt that anything will be done untill the system crashes. Probably when the babyboomers overload it, but I'm sure it will happen way before I get close to needing/benifiting.
I have no intention of letting myself get into a situation where I need to depend on the government for sustenance anyway.
I don't have a job, but I'm trying to get one, and I'm not about to start a government-tit-sucking habit now.
So crackpot, you think its ok for your government to force you to pay into this Social Security and then not get any of it back? cause thats how I read your complaint.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
I think we went over this months ago and that bullshit was given the proper burial rites
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
Crayz9000 wrote:The main problem is that Social Security's just a big pyramid scheme...
I would suggest the US government change it..but then I remember the inordinate power American lobby groups have.
Via money Europe could become political in five years" "... the current communities should be completed by a Finance Common Market which would lead us to European economic unity. Only then would ... the mutual commitments make it fairly easy to produce the political union which is the goal"
Hamel wrote:How does it fit the definition of pyramid scheme?
I think we went over this months ago and that bullshit was given the proper burial rites
Care do link rather than making empty claims. Want to refer to old threads? LINK THE THREAD.
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Hamel wrote:How does it fit the definition of pyramid scheme?
I think we went over this months ago and that bullshit was given the proper burial rites
Care do link rather than making empty claims. Want to refer to old threads? LINK THE THREAD.
Irrelevent~ he has to at least try to support his arguments, which he did in the post before yours
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
500,000 in assets and 30,000 a year does not automatically mean a senior is living on the hog.
If all or most of those assets are wrapped up in a home, which is very easy to do where I live then they are not really well off. Equity does not pay the gas bill. Of course if the house is completely paid off then 30K is a good chunk of change, but still. After taxes, medical, insurance, etc. Its not a as much as it would seem.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
Would you care to actually point out where exactly in that thread it's PROVEN that Social Security doesn't hold a close similarity to a pyramid scheme?
All I see is Patrick Degan arguing that Social Security isn't a pyramid scheme because it's backed up by the government.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
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People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
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That doesn't particularly matter. You are still forced to put money in, and you'll never see that money again.
Nice, pithy bullshit. There are plenty of things you put taxes in for and you "never see that money again". Except it goes toward making a stable, liveable society in which one can pursue one's interets securely.
There are far better ways to work such a system, and the current way isn't one of them.
Like privatisation, I suppose. And if the investment scheme you've put your nest-egg into is wiped out by fraud, financial collapse, or an asset-draining family crisis, then what's the back-up plan?
Social Security has its problems, but unless you can point to definitive evidence that the Federal government has no intention of doing anything to rectify the situation and will simply allow the system to collapse and thereby defraud taxpayers, the "Social-Security-is-a-pyramid-scheme" argument necessarily fails.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
—Dr. Gregory House
Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
Patrick Degan wrote:Nice, pithy bullshit. There are plenty of things you put taxes in for and you "never see that money again". Except it goes toward making a stable, liveable society in which one can pursue one's interets securely.
Except that you're presumably putting that money towards your retirement (that is the whole point of SS, is it not?) but it either goes towards other people's retirement or gets diverted into some other Federal project.
In my opinion, it's one thing to pay for taxes that clearly labeled as funding Federal projects. It's another thing to pay a tax for something that's supposed to benefit you in the future, but which in reality is funding some other project or some such thing.
