Flag Burning

Post by **Vympel** » 2003-12-13 12:47am

I have absolutely no opinion on it whatsoever. I don't approve or disapprove. It's just a piece of cloth.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-13 12:59am

weemadando wrote:
Dalton wrote:
weemadando wrote:Yeah, that'd be the one, but I think I might wait until this thread is DEFINATELY going to be locked before posting that.
Trolling is against board policy.
Hey, I've restrained myself thus far...

And it's best for all concerned that you continue to.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-12-13 01:00am

I disaprove of flag burning but I do respect the right.

I disaprove because in my opinion you are insulting the memories of those that fought for freedom and the was their symbol something that gave them pride, and motivated them. Though they also fought for the freedom to do so...

Sure, it's just a piece of cloth but to a whole lot of people it is much more than that.....

Post by **weemadando** » 2003-12-13 01:05am

Stormbringer wrote:
weemadando wrote:
Dalton wrote: Trolling is against board policy.
Hey, I've restrained myself thus far...
And it's best for all concerned that you continue to.

You know, you people only make it more tempting sometimes.

Stormbringer · Post by **Stormbringer** » 2003-12-13 01:12am

weemadando wrote:You know, you people only make it more tempting sometimes.

Tempting or not, trolling isn't apprecaited and it's better for you, especially since you're supposed to be in charge of the ATJ, not to go trolling.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-13 01:39am

Kamakazie Sith wrote:I disaprove of flag burning but I do respect the right.

I disaprove because in my opinion you are insulting the memories of those that fought for freedom and the was their symbol something that gave them pride, and motivated them. Though they also fought for the freedom to do so...

Sure, it's just a piece of cloth but to a whole lot of people it is much more than that.....

I actually feel the opposite. By burning the flag, you are showing our contempt for a government that is, at least in the cases I would burn a flag, spitting on the very rights and freedoms that thousands of young americans have fought and died to protect.

By buring it, you are showing them respect, not the other way around.

David · Post by **David** » 2003-12-13 02:17am

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
I actually feel the opposite. By burning the flag, you are showing our contempt for a government that is, at least in the cases I would burn a flag, spitting on the very rights and freedoms that thousands of young americans have fought and died to protect.

By buring it, you are showing them respect, not the other way around.

Depends on what you think the flag represents. I happen to think it represents the ideals those people died for, not the government, and considering the way most veterans feel about flag burning, they do to.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2003-12-13 04:14am

It actually erks the hell out of me. Though, I get over it by knowing that most of the idiots that do it are, well, idiots. You are allowed to be an idiot in this country.

Gambler · Post by **Gambler** » 2003-12-13 05:43am

Stormbringer wrote:
weemadando wrote:You know, you people only make it more tempting sometimes.
Tempting or not, trolling isn't apprecaited and it's better for you, especially since you're supposed to be in charge of the ATJ, not to go trolling.

Stormbringer you seem like your trying to provoke him.
I mean he hasn't fucking done nothing... yet

Ace Pace · Post by **Ace Pace** » 2003-12-13 06:20am

Illgel, and with all the protest around that burn flags, the law is being amended to allow a few months of prison for burning one

makes me want to burn one

Companion Cube · Post by **Companion Cube** » 2003-12-13 06:42am

Gambler wrote:Stormbringer you seem like your trying to provoke him.
I mean he hasn't fucking done nothing... yet

Looks more like he's trying to defuse a potentially inflammatory situation to me...

Psycho Smiley · Post by **Psycho Smiley** » 2003-12-13 07:18am

Gambler wrote:Stormbringer you seem like your trying to provoke him.
I mean he hasn't fucking done nothing... yet

It probably has a lot to do with the fact that there are a lot of bad memories attached to the last time he posted it, and Stormbringer doesn't want them brought back up. Let alone the fact that trolling itself is bad. Don't encourage the two of them to get into it, okay?

Dahak · Post by **Dahak** » 2003-12-13 08:05am

As people might (not) expect, it's an offense in germany an can be punished with fines or jail up to three years (5 years under aggravated circumstances).

(translated via lycos, but I hope it makes some sense

)

§90a StGB, "Reviling the state and its symbols"

1) Who publicly, in a meeting or by spreading writings (§ 11 Abs. 3)

1. insults or derisives bad-willingly the Federal Republic of Germany or one of its States or its constitutional order, or
2. reviles the colors, the flag, the coats of arms, or the hymn of the Federal Republic of Germany or one of its States

is punished with imprisonment up to three years or with a fine.

(2) Likewise is punished, who removes, destroys, damages, renders useless or unrecognizable or commits insulting mischief to a publicly shown flag of the Federal Republic of Germany or one of its States, or a national emblem of the Federal Republic of Germany or one of their States
publicly affixed by the authorities.
The attempt is punishable.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2003-12-13 08:15am

A flag is a symbol. People burn flags as a sign of percieved outrage against the institutions that symbol represents.

In my opinion the destruction of a piece of cloth as an act of protest is far better than the destruction of property or murder that could of been the alternative.

We always have more flags. They are easily replaced. Buildings are far more expensive. And it is not possiable to replace someone's husband, wife, son, daughter, fiance...

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-12-13 08:30am

Frankly, I think all who believe burning a piece of cloth should be illegal are a load of fucking retards.
Symbol or not, it's a bit of fucking cloth.

Bill Door · Post by **Bill Door** » 2003-12-13 09:59am

dworkin wrote:A flag is a symbol. People burn flags as a sign of percieved outrage against the institutions that symbol represents.

In my opinion the destruction of a piece of cloth as an act of protest is far better than the destruction of property or murder that could of been the alternative.

We always have more flags. They are easily replaced. Buildings are far more expensive. And it is not possiable to replace someone's husband, wife, son, daughter, fiance...

That sums up my feelings on this matter well.
It is better to peacefully destroy a symbol like a flag than to make your statement by destroying property or lives.

Still, flag burning should be considered as a strong message of protest against the governments policies. The flag of a nation is considered a thing to be revered by many and the destruction of that symbol should send a strong message.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-13 12:42pm

David wrote:
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
I actually feel the opposite. By burning the flag, you are showing our contempt for a government that is, at least in the cases I would burn a flag, spitting on the very rights and freedoms that thousands of young americans have fought and died to protect.

By buring it, you are showing them respect, not the other way around.

Depends on what you think the flag represents. I happen to think it represents the ideals those people died for, not the government, and considering the way most veterans feel about flag burning, they do to.

And in that, lies the problem of subjective symbols.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-13 12:45pm

Bill Door wrote:
dworkin wrote:A flag is a symbol. People burn flags as a sign of percieved outrage against the institutions that symbol represents.

In my opinion the destruction of a piece of cloth as an act of protest is far better than the destruction of property or murder that could of been the alternative.

We always have more flags. They are easily replaced. Buildings are far more expensive. And it is not possiable to replace someone's husband, wife, son, daughter, fiance...
That sums up my feelings on this matter well.
It is better to peacefully destroy a symbol like a flag than to make your statement by destroying property or lives.

Still, flag burning should be considered as a strong message of protest against the governments policies. The flag of a nation is considered a thing to be revered by many and the destruction of that symbol should send a strong message.

In that I agree wholeheartedly. Burning a lag should not be taken lightly. As it represent a government, wo are suposedly our servants, it should only be burned when the government commts a crime against its own citizens. Passage of PATRIOT 2 or a constitutional ban on gay marriage would be something I would burn a flag over(and subequently, be thrown in prison indefinently)

Hamel · Post by **Hamel** » 2003-12-13 12:52pm

I don't care. If they want to waste lighter fluid on a piece of cloth, they can have at it.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2003-12-13 12:59pm

I'd much prefer watching women burn their bras, but I'm not against flag burning.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-13 01:59pm

I'm ambivalent about the flag but very pro-fire. Let it be legal, say I.

Montcalm wrote:I just thought about and the best way to protest against a government is not burning the nations flag,but burning the symbol of the current government,like now in the US the symbol of the Republicans would be fair game,and in Canada the symbol of the Liberal party.

Setting an elephant on fire would be difficult, especially considering conservation laws.

Post by **Alyrium Denryle** » 2003-12-13 02:23pm

Andrew J. wrote:I'm ambivalent about the flag but very pro-fire. Let it be legal, say I.

Montcalm wrote:I just thought about and the best way to protest against a government is not burning the nations flag,but burning the symbol of the current government,like now in the US the symbol of the Republicans would be fair game,and in Canada the symbol of the Liberal party.

Setting an elephant on fire would be difficult, especially considering conservation laws.

Well, you could just get a bunch of GOP pins, campaign posters, and stuff like that, put it in a giant pile and burn it.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-13 04:36pm

Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Andrew J. wrote:I'm ambivalent about the flag but very pro-fire. Let it be legal, say I.

Montcalm wrote:I just thought about and the best way to protest against a government is not burning the nations flag,but burning the symbol of the current government,like now in the US the symbol of the Republicans would be fair game,and in Canada the symbol of the Liberal party.

Setting an elephant on fire would be difficult, especially considering conservation laws.
Well, you could just get a bunch of GOP pins, campaign posters, and stuff like that, put it in a giant pile and burn it.

Montcalm said "the SYMBOL of the Republicans." I wouldn't try your idea unless I got an equaly large number of Democratic campaign shit and protested the two-party system itself.

justifier · Post by **justifier** » 2003-12-13 04:41pm

It should be legal, if only because the law of averages means that eventually someone will set themselves on fire on live TV