Latest version of my essay on Sci-Fi Alien Archetypes

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-02 02:48pm

Daleks aren't technically cyborgs, as they're blobs in armoured mechanical suits.

Space Nazis all the way.

Crossover_Maniac · Post by **Crossover_Maniac** » 2003-12-13 01:14pm

Bob McDob wrote:The Abh in Crest of the Stars would count as BSBs, minus the spirituality angle.

No, the Abh are the Confused Androgynous Humanoid Anime Invaders type since they do go around conquering other worlds.

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2003-12-14 09:24pm

Tasoth wrote:Don't the Tau fit the mold of Socialists more then Communists? There is only one class in Communism, the Workers, or so it supposed to go where there is definitely differing classes in a Socialist society.

It works if you change the title from "Space Nazis" to simply "Space Fascists."

Symmetry · Post by **Symmetry** » 2003-12-14 09:28pm

Hmm. I'd say the Idirans are much more Space Nazis than warriors, though its sorta ambigous. Ann McCaffery's Rowan universe has more uber-pets than you can shake a stick at, and some insectoids too. A Deepness in the Sky by Vinge has some insectoid aliens that nicely break all the steriotypes (its a wonderful book). I don't know where the Ringworld Puppeteers would go, the Slavers are Space Nazis (or Space Facists as I call them), and the Protectors are probably Proud warrior thugs, though they're scarily smart.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-12-15 03:36pm

That would be kinda hard to cover up. There's got to be plenty of Tau troopers who know about the things

Indeed, although the Damocles crusade was a tiny baby compared to some.

But think about it, the level of information control the Tau goverment has is immense, and the level of indoctrination means that if they want to keep something quiet for the greater good, they can, Especially if its something that strictly speaking, only a relatively small % of their military, which is also bloody tightly controlled is going to see. Add to this the fact that fraternization between the castes is limited to what is absolutely required for optimum functioning, and the rumour mill has even less grist.

All together, this is exactly why Titans are basically rumours during the FW timeline, rumours that may have been spread by those who actually SAW the damn things, but when you think about it, even firsthand, from witnesses, newbies or even other veterans are going to be sceptical, especially about a race they hold int thinly veiled contempt.

add to this the propaganda machine, and its entirely feasible that Titans are reduced to mere rumours, easily dismissed.

Hell, even high up Tau commanders are shocked when they find out that the population of an entire Tau Sept can fit inside a single hive-city.

Where'd that come up? The briefings in the training area in Firewarrior made sure to let Kais eknow the Imperium was superstitious as all hell (which they are) and that a lot of their gear isn't as good as Tau stuff (which it usually isn't) as I recall

Exactly, the Tau MILITARY is told basically that they are fighting a bunch of religious fundies, which would only increase the Taus disdain of humans given their racial attitude and indoctrination, with less capable weapons!

It DOESNT give an accurate representation of imperial capabilities, it makes them out as less than they are, which is exactly why the newbie firewarriors in the book are totally overwhelmed when they get stuck in, because while the Lasguns a less capable weapon, its still more than capable of blasting an armoured Tau into seared chunks of flesh.

and the crappy human tanks just happen to have the most godawful huge guns o' doom.

Where'd that one come from?

From the Tau codex, from Kill team, from most fluff contacts with the Tau to be honest...

Damocles wasnt re-enforced because Leviathan and Armageddon were happening around the same time.

SylasGaunt · Post by **SylasGaunt** » 2003-12-15 07:58pm

Hell, even high up Tau commanders are shocked when they find out that the population of an entire Tau Sept can fit inside a single hive-city.

That's a difference in scale.. hard thing to completely accept you have to admit.

Exactly, the Tau MILITARY is told basically that they are fighting a bunch of religious fundies, which would only increase the Taus disdain of humans given their racial attitude and indoctrination, with less capable weapons!

Fanatics are usually dangerous opponents. But while it does say they're superstitous and have worse gear it doesn't say they can't fight.. at least not that I recall but I haven't rented Firewarrior in a while.

and the crappy human tanks just happen to have the most godawful huge guns o' doom.

They're big.. but my tanks fear Hammerheads more than Leman Russ'

From the Tau codex, from Kill team, from most fluff contacts with the Tau to be honest...

Damocles wasnt re-enforced because Leviathan and Armageddon were happening around the same time.

Ah I'd forgotten about First Armageddon.. usually when I think Armageddon I think Orks not chaos.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-16 10:07am

If it hasn't been mentioned already... don't forget the BEMs (Bug Eyed Monsters), from the pulp fiction era. ; )

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-16 11:26am

Kurgan wrote:If it hasn't been mentioned already... don't forget the BEMs (Bug Eyed Monsters), from the pulp fiction era. ; )

A precursor to the Evil Insects From Outer Space, like the LGMs are the precursors to the SGAs??

Symmetry wrote:Hmm. I'd say the Idirans are much more Space Nazis than warriors, though its sorta ambigous.

Actually, I think the two archetypes are kinda related since Proud Warrior Thugs usually favour totalitarian types of government. The Taiidani from Homeworld, for example, used to be a Proud Warrior Thug race but later became Space Nazis as they became corrupted by their political influence.

white_rabbit wrote:Exactly, the Tau MILITARY is told basically that they are fighting a bunch of religious fundies, which would only increase the Taus disdain of humans given their racial attitude and indoctrination, with less capable weapons!

But the Imperium are religious fanatics - although the Tau fail to notice that so are they.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-12-16 03:31pm

Fanatics are usually dangerous opponents. But while it does say they're superstitous and have worse gear it doesn't say they can't fight.. at least not that I recall but I haven't rented Firewarrior in a while.

The books a better source

They're big.. but my tanks fear Hammerheads more than Leman Russ'

Indeed, but who do you think infantry fear more ?

Ah I'd forgotten about First Armageddon.. usually when I think Armageddon I think Orks not chaos.

umm, I think it IS an Orkish armageddon y'know

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-12-16 03:59pm

I would also put the "Fair Alliance" up there, the (SW)New Republic, ISA from B-5, the Federation(ST), usually a group of races which repersent the "good guys", most of the time lead by humans.

CaptainChewbacca · Post by **CaptainChewbacca** » 2003-12-16 04:15pm

I found it very interesting, but I would submit that the Nox of SG1 should be included in the Space Hippies category.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-17 10:12am

Sam Or I wrote:I would also put the "Fair Alliance" up there, the (SW)New Republic, ISA from B-5, the Federation(ST), usually a group of races which repersent the "good guys", most of the time lead by humans.

Does that really belong on this particular list?? This is a list of various archetypes of aliens, not a list of organization/alliance/affliation types in sci-fi.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-12-17 01:52pm

white_rabbit wrote:

They're big.. but my tanks fear Hammerheads more than Leman Russ'
Indeed, but who do you think infantry fear more ?
Depends on their armor save.

umm, I think it IS an Orkish armageddon y'know

I think it was just Kraken. I think the Damocles Crusade was almost three hundred years ago, considering O'Shovah's age and the fact that he was part of the counter-thrust that recaptured the worlds taken by the Imperium.

But back to the subject:

The Gnosis from Xenosaga so far count as Mysterious Star Gods, with a little Evil Insect mixed in.

The Jurai are closer to Angelic Space Brothers than Star Gods. and the Abh are too confident to named anyhing with the word "confused" in it.

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2003-12-17 02:14pm

[quote="Simon H.Johansen"][quote="Sam Or I"]I would also put the "Fair Alliance" up there, the (SW)New Republic, ISA from B-5, the Federation(ST), usually a group of races which repersent the "good guys", most of the time lead by humans.[/quote]

Does that really belong on this particular list?? This is a list of various archetypes of aliens, not a list of organization/alliance/affliation types in sci-fi.[/quote]

I guess that could be argued either way. What about races like the Zoq-Fot-Pik from star control II, or the G'Nunk from Starflight 2 (Talk about old school video games).

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-18 06:40am

Sam Or I wrote:I guess that could be argued either way. What about races like the Zoq-Fot-Pik from star control II, or the G'Nunk from Starflight 2 (Talk about old school video games).

As far as the Zoq-fot-pik go, I would put them in the "Just Stupid" category. Their ships sucked, and they don't really help you, but because they want to ally with you the obligation falls on you to protect them.

Note, I actually like the Zoq-fot-pik (as indeed I love the game itself) but that doesn't change the fact that they're pretty stupid.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2003-12-18 04:16pm

SAMAS wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:
Indeed, but who do you think infantry fear more ?
Depends on their armor save.

umm, I think it IS an Orkish armageddon y'know
I think it was just Kraken. I think the Damocles Crusade was almost three hundred years ago, considering O'Shovah's age and the fact that he was part of the counter-thrust that recaptured the worlds taken by the Imperium.

But back to the subject:

The Gnosis from Xenosaga so far count as Mysterious Star Gods, with a little Evil Insect mixed in.

The Jurai are closer to Angelic Space Brothers than Star Gods. and the Abh are too confident to named anyhing with the word "confused" in it.

Yeah it was the Nids, I was so absorbed in the nids codex at the time I was thinking of the fluff box which details a imperial army dude asking for extra forces.

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-12-18 09:26pm

Here's a new Category:

Blast From the Past -- Whatever this race may look like(although they're usually human-like or very close), their most notable aspect is the fact that their civilization, for no apparent reason, bears a striking resemblance to a place and era of Earth's past. Often right down to the language. Examples include the Centauri(Babylon 5) and the Jurai(Tenchi Muyo)

Animal People From Outer Space -- A combination/expansion/alternate of the Squidheads, Reptiloids, and Uber-Pets. Members of this race greatly resemble Earth animals, usually right down to the characterizations and sounds associated with that animal. A staple of both Western and Japanese Sci-Fi(which are most often feline-based). Examples include the Mon Calimari(Star Wars) Wolfen(RIFTS Phase World), The Catarl-Catarl(Outlaw Star) and members of the three abovementioned Archtypes.

Amazon Women on(or off) the Moon -- For whatever reason, this race consists pretty much entirely of attractive humanoid women, most of whom could kick your ass. Typically, at least one of them will invariably fall in love with a human male, sometimes to the point of betraying her own people. Reproduction is either supposedly handled by cloning, or just ignored altogether. Also, they tend to have a rather repressed sex drive, at least in the absence of Human males. Examples include the Amazons(Amazon Women on the Moon), Meltraedi(Macross/Robotech), Solnoids(Gall Force) and Praxians(Robotech II: The Sentinels).

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-19 02:29am

SAMAS wrote: Animal People From Outer Space -- A combination/expansion/alternate of the Squidheads, Reptiloids, and Uber-Pets. Members of this race greatly resemble Earth animals, usually right down to the characterizations and sounds associated with that animal. A staple of both Western and Japanese Sci-Fi(which are most often feline-based). Examples include the Mon Calimari(Star Wars) Wolfen(RIFTS Phase World), The Catarl-Catarl(Outlaw Star) and members of the three abovementioned Archtypes.

The Kilrathi (Wing Commander) and the Kzinti (Wing Commander) also fit into here as well as the Proud Warrior Thug archetype.

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-19 02:50am

SAMAS wrote:Amazon Women on(or off) the Moon...Examples include the Amazons(Amazon Women on the Moon), Meltraedi(Macross/Robotech), Solnoids(Gall Force) and Praxians(Robotech II: The Sentinels).

What actually happened to the Meltraedi?

As for another example, would the Syreen from Starcon 2 count as Amazon women? They don't really kick booty but they do have the "psi-reen" call that compells otherwise rational male starship crews to jump out of their airlocks towards the Syreen "Penetrator" spaceship (shaped like a dildo, too - God, I love that game...)

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-19 09:54am

Stofsk wrote: As for another example, would the Syreen from Starcon 2 count as Amazon women? They don't really kick booty but they do have the "psi-reen" call that compells otherwise rational male starship crews to jump out of their airlocks towards the Syreen "Penetrator" spaceship (shaped like a dildo, too - God, I love that game...)

I think they would. They certainly fit into the Amazon Women From Space archetype with some exception. Just like the Kaminoans fit into the SGA archetype despite having a lot of dissimilarities with other SGA-type aliens. (such as the fact that they never abduct humans, and that they're 7 feet tall)

SAMAS · Post by **SAMAS** » 2003-12-19 11:27am

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
SAMAS wrote: Animal People From Outer Space -- A combination/expansion/alternate of the Squidheads, Reptiloids, and Uber-Pets. Members of this race greatly resemble Earth animals, usually right down to the characterizations and sounds associated with that animal. A staple of both Western and Japanese Sci-Fi(which are most often feline-based). Examples include the Mon Calimari(Star Wars) Wolfen(RIFTS Phase World), The Catarl-Catarl(Outlaw Star) and members of the three abovementioned Archtypes.
The Kilrathi (Wing Commander) and the Kzinti (Wing Commander) also fit into here as well as the Proud Warrior Thug archetype.

The entire time I was writing that I knew that I was forgetting something, and that was part of it. Also, the Catarl-Catarl also fit in as Proud Warrior Thugs.

Oh, and back to Robotech, I forgot a few races:

Kabarrans(Robotech II: the Sentinels) -- Animal People from Outer Space

Garudans(Robotech II: the Sentinels) -- Animal People from Outer Space, Space Hippies

Tirolians/Robotech Masters -- Blast From the Past, Space Nazis

Invid -- Killer Bugs from Outer Space

Protodevlin(Macross) -- Mysterious Star Gods

Some more I thought of, but have no names for, are:

Races that 99% of the time wear clothes that conceal most or all of their bodies -- Tusken Raiders(Star Wars) and another race from Outlaw Star

Rock- or Crystal-based races -- Spherians(Robotech II: the Sentinels)

Shapeshifting Races -- Changelings(Star Trek), Martians(DC Comics)

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-19 02:18pm

Oh - I forgot something too: The Kzinti are from Ringworld, not Wing Commander!!!

BTW - as for Blast For The Past aliens, some of them are actually amalgams of several different Earth cultures - such as the Kushan (Homeworld), who strike me as equal parts Scottish and Hebrew.

technomage · Post by **technomage** » 2003-12-26 11:17pm

From Farscape:

Luxans: Proud Warrior Thugs
Scarrans: Reptilloids, Space Nazis, Subjugators
Nebari: Space Nazis crossed with Wholesome Space Hippies (Play Nice or else)
Delvians: Wholesome Space Hippies

Also:

Narn (B5): Reptilloids, Proud Warrior Thugs
Orions (Starfire): Proud Warrior Thugs (although most of them have brains to go with it)
Posleen (Legacy of the Alldenata): Reptilloids, Just Stupid Aliens, Evil Insects From Outer Space (sort of)
Arachnid Omnivoracity (Starfire): Evil Insects From Outer Space crossed with Mean Mechanical Monkeyjumpers

Stofsk · Post by **Stofsk** » 2003-12-27 01:29am

technomage wrote:Narn (B5): Reptilloids, Proud Warrior Thugs

Narn aren't reptiles; they're marsupials. At best, they're some sort of cross between the two.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-27 05:48am

technomage wrote: Nebari: Space Nazis crossed with Wholesome Space Hippies (Play Nice or else)

Now that's an odd mixture of archetypeds.