The Wicked Witch of the West's army

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-12-14 01:22am

Wizard of Oz is playing on cable right now. I just saw the scene with all the flying monkeys in it. Did anyone ever make an estimate on how many there were?

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-14 04:29am

My DVD drive isn't hooked up or I'd toss you some screencaps.

The Witch also has the Winkies, her personal army. The Winged Monkeys are basically a mercenary force she acquired through a magical cap (explained in the book, but seen briefly in the movie right before they attack Dorothy & Co.).

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-12-14 09:06am

Kurgan wrote:My DVD drive isn't hooked up or I'd toss you some screencaps.

The Witch also has the Winkies, her personal army. The Winged Monkeys are basically a mercenary force she acquired through a magical cap (explained in the book, but seen briefly in the movie right before they attack Dorothy & Co.).

There's a book?

Did it become before or after the movie?

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-12-14 10:01am

Gandalf wrote:There's a book?

Did it become before or after the movie?

L. Frank Baum wrote it waaaaay before the movie, I think. There were various stage productions of it before the movie.

And this is one film Hollywood would be murdered for if they remade it, guaranteed.

Oh, I'd like to note how sad you are, Raxmei.

Going to do a versus? The Witch's Flying Monkeys vs Starfleet gropos?

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2003-12-14 10:31am

The Flying Monkeys win.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-12-14 01:15pm

Monkey vs Robot
Robot wins
Flying monkey vs Robot
Robot gets owned.
Triangle man hates Flying monkey, they have a fight, triangle wins
Triangle man.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-12-14 05:36pm

I skimmed through the book last night. The total forces that the Witch threw at Dorothy before resorting to the monkeys:

40 wolves
40 crows
a swarm of bees
some Winkies with spears

That's it. The winged monkeys only followed her orders because of a golden cap which she could only use three times. That's a pretty pathetic level of power for someone who terrorised a quarter of Oz.

Jawawithagun · Post by **Jawawithagun** » 2003-12-14 06:17pm

There isn't just one book bot a whole series of it.

Raxmei · Post by **Raxmei** » 2003-12-14 06:50pm

Jawawithagun wrote:There isn't just one book bot a whole series of it.

I know. I've read most of them.

Dalton wrote:Going to do a versus? The Witch's Flying Monkeys vs Starfleet gropos?

Saruman, actually.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-15 07:52am

Well the Witch herself was supposedly pretty powerful (except for a bucket of water.. and a late 19th century farm house was dropped on her sister, causing her to die), though a lot of her control of Oz was through fear.

Pity we didn't see a "Witches duel" (though I admit I've only read four of the books, and there's what.. 30?).

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-12-15 07:54am

Here I was thinking it was just one standalone movie...

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-16 10:16am

Not even that. There's also the "Return to OZ" flick made in the 80's (not so much a sequel to the Judy Garland musical as a cinematic amalgamation of the second and third OZ books, though they left in various touches first movie fans would be familiar with like the Ruby Slippers).

spongyblue · Post by **spongyblue** » 2003-12-16 11:44am

<conspiricy mode on>

You know who I think the real villian in Oz is? No the "Wicked" Witch of the East, but actually Glenda the "Good" Witch. Why? Think of it this way, the inhabitants of the various lands of Oz are incrediably thick headed. Thats not exactly their fault, their just built that way. If a quick thinking yet spineless conman can have a whole nation not only think he is a wizard, but also convinces them to hand over rule of their entire country to him and then when he is found out to be a fraud he names a talking scarcrow as his sucsessor and the people gladly accept him. Where does Glinda fit in. She comes floating in on her pretty little bubble when Dorothy accidentally drops her house on the other witch. I'm sure the "Wicked" Witch probably would have forgiven the 10 year old girl, I mean hey, she wasn't exactly driving the house now was she. But nooo, Glinda had to instagate shit, get Dorothy to go on this little quest of hers, knowing that this simple girl was probably smarter than half the people in Oz, was gonna some how unmask the Wizard. With the wizard gone, Oz is ripe for the pickens for Glinda the "Good" Witch. And you wanna know what happens to the Flying Monkeys after the "Wicked" Witches demise? In The Land of Oz it is stated (rough quote I read about a week ago) by the Scarecrow to Jack Pumkin Head "The Flying Monkeys are now slaves to Glinda for she now has the Golden Cap that commands them" Hmmmm, makes you think.

<conspricy mode off>

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-12-16 02:09pm

No she used it three time and then gave it to the king of the Winged Monkeys setting them Free Read the book!

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-18 06:20am

It's also interesting that in the book "Glinda" and the Good Witch of the North are two different people (IIRC).

The movie combines them, but in the original book (again IIRC) Glinda is actually the Good Witch of the South.

The person who "helps Dorothy" at the end is the Good Witch of the North (in the book).

This is of course because there were four Witches in Oz (two "wicked" East/West and two "good" North/South).

Also interesting is the way the Winkies look in the movie. I speculated that they were the same species as the Wicked Witch of the West (and East too if she was her "sister")... green skin, hook nose.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-18 11:30pm

Ok, just on a rough eyeball count, we see about a hundred winged monkeys fly past in the scene where the Witch is yelling "fly! fly!" after she gives the order to capture Dorothy.

That isn't counting the one monkey (Niko I think is his name in the credits), the Witches lackey (just a guess but his wings appear to be clipped).

We see an approach shot of the "flock" of monkeys, then we see them grab Dorothy while beating up on Scarcrow, etc. then another few shots of the flock flying off.

Here's some pics (brightened for hopefully better clarity):

http://www.jediknightii.net/_kurgan/oz/monkey1.jpg
http://www.jediknightii.net/_kurgan/oz/monkey2.jpg
http://www.jediknightii.net/_kurgan/oz/monkey3.jpg
http://www.jediknightii.net/_kurgan/oz/monkey4.jpg

And here's the Winkies! I don't know honestly how many they had on the set, but I figure that they just took the same 20 or so guys and just paraded them past the camera for several passes to make it look like there were many more of them. Shot wise, it doesn't make sense that the same guys are taking forever to just go back inside the castle (after their shift ends or whatever) so I'm counting each "pass" as another troupe of Winkies. But at any one time, it's limited to about 20 or so guys. Notice that while they are all filling back in, three still manage to sneak up on the Tinman, Scarcrow and Lion.

(we see a handfull more continue after this shot were you see the "drummer" and "cymbalist" Winkies at the head of the line going in, and then the rest follow. A few more go past and then our heroes in disguise wearing Winkie uniforms.
More shots:

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-12-18 11:39pm

Inline your huge pics. I dislike having to clean up. It makes me cranky.

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-12-18 11:53pm

SirNitram wrote:Inline your huge pics. I dislike having to clean up. It makes me cranky.

And a cranky black mage is an unhappy black mage, and an unhappy black mage means Hadoken percipitation +50%.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2003-12-18 11:55pm

SyntaxVorlon wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Inline your huge pics. I dislike having to clean up. It makes me cranky.
And a cranky black mage is an unhappy black mage, and an unhappy black mage means Hadoken percipitation +50%.

When I'm unhappy, Star Kitten is upset. When Star Kitten is upset... PEOPLE DIE!

Okay, spam over.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-12-19 12:16am

Heh, sorry.

Darth Gojira · Post by **Darth Gojira** » 2003-12-28 02:40pm

Don't mess with the monkeys. The Winkies on the other hand.......

Post by **LadyTevar** » 2003-12-28 04:18pm

SirNitram wrote:
SyntaxVorlon wrote:
SirNitram wrote:Inline your huge pics. I dislike having to clean up. It makes me cranky.
And a cranky black mage is an unhappy black mage, and an unhappy black mage means Hadoken percipitation +50%.
When I'm unhappy, Star Kitten is upset. When Star Kitten is upset... PEOPLE DIE!

Okay, spam over.

I could also add... "When Nitram's upset, I get no sex. Which makes me Very Unhappy, and Extremely Bitchy."

you don't want a Bitchy White Mage, now do you......?

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2003-12-28 08:10pm

The Wicked Witch's castle guards were called "Winkies."

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2004-01-03 07:34pm

Hope this isn't pushing TN, but it seems nobody's contesting then aproximately 100+ Winged Monkey's and 100 Winkie guards in the WWOTW's army...

In the book she did have the crows and other beasties of course.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

The Wicked Witch of the West's army

The Wicked Witch of the West's army

images!