Why can't Jedi Fly?

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-12-13 12:30pm

Solauren wrote:After all, the Light Side requires calm and relaxation. Flying would be too damn cool to keep calm and relaxed.

Who's to say each Jedi carries that same opinion?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-13 03:48pm

It may be that flight is simply quite difficult. Imagine that you have the ability to push against things telekinetically. But you're pushing against something which is, say, 200 metres away, instead of 0.2 metres away as it would normally be. The sheer distance means that a tiny misalignment of your direction would cause you to topple in one direction or another.

Think of the analogy of a man on tall stilts: it is difficult to maintain balance, and takes practice. That may explain why Jedi can use it to push themselves up in the air for a big leap or cushion a fall from great distance (as Mace Windu did when he fell to the arena floor and landed gently), but they can't just fly around.

Palpatine may have tried to push against whatever was at the very bottom of the DS2 shaft, but for all we know that was a few hundred km away, which would mean it takes longer for him to visualize it and be able to push against it, so he ended up just bouncing against the walls before running into some kind of energetic system which fried him.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-12-13 04:03pm

The Palpatine example implies that Jedi must exert force either directly towards or directly away from them. This is not the case, as Yoda's lifting of Luke's X-wing demonstrates. Thus, Palpatine might have been able to push off from material in the walls, and definately could have pushed off of floors on the other sides of the walls.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2003-12-14 12:08am

Darth Wong wrote:Palpatine may have tried to push against whatever was at the very bottom of the DS2 shaft, but for all we know that was a few hundred km away, which would mean it takes longer for him to visualize it and be able to push against it, so he ended up just bouncing against the walls before running into some kind of energetic system which fried him.

I think he would at least have been able to land gently if he didn't fall into the "energetic system" first (a reactor subsystem, perhaps?). It's seem reasonable to assume that distance is a factor when it comes to using the Force in general. Otherwise Vader would have been able to pinpoint Luke from across the galaxy, for example. The only exception appear to be "disturbances in the force". Something I imagine like rings on the water.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-14 12:39am

I always figured that Palpatine landed on a walkway or girder, and exploded with Dark Side energy...

Murazor · Post by **Murazor** » 2003-12-14 03:28pm

Big jumps, OK. Strong hits, OK. Mind control, OK. Strong TK, OK. Force lightning, appears to be quite rare. Supernova explosions, that is even more rare. Flying... NO WAY IN HELL. A fall of several hundred kilometers should have given Palpatine, one of the more powerful Force users on existence, time enough to calm down and fly away. He didn't. So in my opinion, Jedi can't fly.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2003-12-14 03:49pm

Murazor wrote:Big jumps, OK. Strong hits, OK. Mind control, OK. Strong TK, OK. Force lightning, appears to be quite rare. Supernova explosions, that is even more rare. Flying... NO WAY IN HELL. A fall of several hundred kilometers should have given Palpatine, one of the more powerful Force users on existence, time enough to calm down and fly away. He didn't. So in my opinion, Jedi can't fly.

Calm down?? I'd love to see how calm you can get when you right hand man just chucked down a kilometres long shaft into a hypermatter reactor.
Also two things:
1) Palpy was a sith he draws his power from emotion so he wouldn't need to "calm down" to use the force.

2) He was properly drawing on the force and trying to transferr himself in to his next clone body/ Emperor's Hand.

Robert Treder · Post by **Robert Treder** » 2003-12-14 10:43pm

Count Dooku flies in the Clone Wars cartoon (a prolonged, controlled glide down from a balcony), and the Dark Jedi Maw possibly flies all the time (I always assumed that he used a repulsorlift, which is possible, but the novelization of Dark Forces II hints that he is using the Force to fly...perhaps he uses a repulsor for lift, but the Force for maneuvering...)

I agree with Darth Wong that it's probably just very difficult. We know that it's possible, because they have the strength to do it, and we have seen Count Dooku do it in the Clone Wars cartoon.
But it doesn't seem unreasonable for it to be difficult to provide such precise control. For example, just because Arnold Schwarzenegger could pick up a three hundred pound barbell doesn't mean that he can gracefully guide it through an obstacle course. Or whatever; you get the picture.

Lord of the Farce · Post by **Lord of the Farce** » 2003-12-14 11:39pm

Murazor wrote:Flying... NO WAY IN HELL. A fall of several hundred kilometers should have given Palpatine, one of the more powerful Force users on existence, time enough to calm down and fly away. He didn't. So in my opinion, Jedi can't fly.

As StarshipTitanic already mentioned, there is an EU example of Luke Skywalker doing exactly what you are saying is impossible. In fact, from TESB, we can see Luke doing a lite version of it. From ROTJ, we can see that Palpatine only fell for a few seconds before a big flash appeared from below, so he (or at least, his body) must have hit something well before the hypermatter core which was hundreds of kilometers down.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-14 11:44pm

It'd be pretty easy to get a lower limit of how far Palpatine fell before he exploded by timing his descent (starting when Vader lets go) and multiply it by the pull of gravity (both Earth and Coruscant, if so desired). It wouldn't factor in Vader throwing Palpatine, but it's a lower limit, at least.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-12-14 11:49pm

This also ignores that Palpatine may have killed himself to avoid tumbling endlessly through the energy shaft til he landed in something that fried him and went ahead and transfered his life-essence into a clone aboard the Death Star (but by then it was too late to get Skywalker or Vader before the DS II blew-up, killing him again and forcing him to transfer essence into Jeng Droga), or straight into Emperor's Hand Jeng Droga a few systems away (where he'd be stranded for the next year or so).

We know Palpatine has this ability as his body dies (explodes) in Dark Empire when he willingly decided to leave it and join a new body.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-15 12:08am

That's a little complicated, though.

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2003-12-15 12:40am

It avoids quandries like "why didn't he just fly?" by simply stating the shaft went without exit to a painful death, and he just offed himself.

Quite frankly, we've seen that one can only slow their descent--what good does that do vs. a energy pit at the bottom? All Force jumps and sideways-Force flights are simply Force-aided jumps--Palpatine had nowhere to land and wasn't jumping, so those abilities aren't much help.

As for "pushing" against stuff to slow one's descent--telekenesis doesn't obey CoM. Observe TESB, where Yoda isn't crushed into the mud by the weight of the floating X-Wing.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-12-15 12:41am

Perhaps, but I prefer to avoid assumptions.

Spartan · Post by **Spartan** » 2003-12-15 03:06pm

As I recall the ATOC novelization specifically states that Obi Wan, could not save himself. So he calmed his mind and prepared to become one with the force. So he expected to die, and did not even try to stop his fall after, having the assasin droid shot from under him by Zam. Personally I'm inclined to believe that it just damn hard to do.

Dooey Jo · Post by **Dooey Jo** » 2003-12-16 11:51am

Spartan wrote:As I recall the ATOC novelization specifically states that Obi Wan, could not save himself. So he calmed his mind and prepared to become one with the force. So he expected to die, and did not even try to stop his fall after, having the assasin droid shot from under him by Zam. Personally I'm inclined to believe that it just damn hard to do.

He must be doing something. If I recall correctly, Obi isn't accellerating as fast as would be if he was free-falling. And he's definately not when he jumps into the speeder. Unless, of course, the air is thick on Coruscant so he gets a lot of air-friction.

Alex Moon · Post by **Alex Moon** » 2003-12-16 04:57pm

Could Palpatine have been injured by the Force lightning he was hitting Vader with?

Quadlok · Post by **Quadlok** » 2003-12-16 05:07pm

Jedi don't fly, they fall with style.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2003-12-16 05:35pm

Alex Moon wrote:Could Palpatine have been injured by the Force lightning he was hitting Vader with?

maybe if it was arcing back on him somehow. it's doubtful that force users have resistance to their own attacks (though admittedly it's unlikely their own attacks can get turned gainst them), though either way the results were the same.