"Is there a God?", my niece asked.

Mr. Sinister · Post by **Mr. Sinister** » 2003-12-18 04:14am

Don't know if this belongs here. If not, my apologies. I have a nine year old niece that I spent a lot of time with during the holidays. We're pretty close. She's extreamly smart, and she's always asking questions. Almost nothing gets past her. Anyway, I was driving her to the craft store to pick out an angel for the tree, and out of the blue she asks, "Jamie, is there a God?" My eyes shot open wider, nearly bulging out. I was completly unprepared for this.

I staled for time asking why she wanted to know. She said she was always curious. I told her that this was a question that she should be asking her parents. She said that that whenever she would ask questions like that, they would get really nervous. Everytime she would ask questions about God, they would read her parts from the Bible or tell her to read a page out of the Bible, leaving her more confused. She liked it when I answer her questions.

So, there I was, trapped inside a car going 40 mph, with a curious 9 yr old armed with one of childhoods toughest question. A question only overshadowed by 'Where do babies come from?' and 'When is Fuffy coming back from vacation?'. I was, to say the least, unsure what to say. I didn't want to come out and say that there was no God. It wasn't my place. But I didn't want to lie to her, especially since she came to me expecting an honest answer. So I did the best I could. I told her that as long as she believes in God, then He is real. In belief, God exists in your heart, and that's all that matters.

It looked like the answer satisfied her, though deep down I feel she knows I was full of it. What do you guys think? Parents especially. Could I've handled the situation differently, or did I handle it correctly? Have any of you been in similar situations?

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-12-18 04:18am

If figure that's the best thing to say given the circumstances.

Macross · Post by **Macross** » 2003-12-18 05:01am

I would say that you handled the situation correctly.

The Third Man · Post by **The Third Man** » 2003-12-18 06:04am

I've been there. IMHO your answer is acceptable. What I've found happens next is the kid often asks "Do YOU believe in god, Uncle?", which is another level of difficulty - especially if the parents are believers. I usually state my (atheist) view, but always make very sure I point out that there are people a lot "cleverer" than me, who believe the opposite - I do this because children are very prone to making and/or susceptible to Appeal to Authority style reasoning. (Same approach should also apply if you're a believer.)

I think it's almost always OK to point out (as you did) that God is outside the scope of scientific proof, and that belief is a matter of personal faith.

Post by **Lagmonster** » 2003-12-18 08:28am

I try to be upfront with kids. The hardest thing for a child to do is make their own decisions - they are bombarded with pressure and influences from adults and peers and TV.

So when asked, I usually avoid giving my opinion to kids and say, "It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about that. You figure out what is right and stick to it, okay?" Being admonished to think for themselves does, in fact, seem to help.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-12-18 08:38am

My response would have been along the lines of: "Niece(lack of name), God is a something alot of people believe in, and alot of other people don't. I'm not going to lie to you. I don't believe in God. But whatever you believe, don't let other people tell you what to believe. Choose for yourself. And most importantly, don't try to make others believe what you do. Everyone has the right believe what they want about that idea called God."

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-12-18 09:19am

I'd just avoid the questions by saying "I don't know, what do you think?" I'd ask for reasons why she thinks the way she does. I wouldn't push the subject. I have no desire to be the center of a religious rift with other family members.

If she persists, I'd say something like "I've never seen him"

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-18 09:21am

My answer would be simple: "No. It's make-believe, like Santa Clause".

If she disagrees with me or her parents disagree with me, that's their perogative. But she asked a question, and she'll get an honest answer. Too many people think that bullshitting kids in order to avoid hurting their precious sensibilities somehow does them a favour. It doesn't.

A 9-year old is old enough to hear honest answers from an adult.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-12-18 09:48am

Mr. Sinister wrote: 'When is Fuffy coming back from vacation?'.

"HE'S NOT! Your parents lied! He's D-E-D, Dead!"

Traumatize the kid and corrupt her spelling at the same time. j/k

I personally don't see the point in deceiving a kid into thinking something is not dead. I dealt with pet deaths fine; I'm not scarred for life and I think most kids are the same.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-18 10:00am

Zoink wrote:
Mr. Sinister wrote: 'When is Fuffy coming back from vacation?'.
"HE'S NOT! Your parents lied! He's D-E-D, Dead!"

Traumatize the kid and corrupt her spelling at the same time. j/k

I personally don't see the point in deceiving a kid into thinking something is not dead. I dealt with pet deaths fine; I'm not scarred for life and I think most kids are the same.

Remember the "Friends" episode where Ross still thought that a beloved, deceased pet dog wasn't dead?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-12-18 10:36am

This probably belongs in SLAM. Would an OT mod or SM care to move it?

Post by **Dalton** » 2003-12-18 11:43am

Darth Wong wrote:My answer would be simple: "No. It's make-believe, like Santa Clause".

...there's no Santa?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-12-18 12:15pm

I'd probably say something along the lines of Robert's explaination, however I'd need to flip who believes what.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-12-18 12:18pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote: Remember the "Friends" episode where Ross still thought that a beloved, deceased pet dog wasn't dead?

I must have missed that one, but it sounds like Ross

SyntaxVorlon · Post by **SyntaxVorlon** » 2003-12-18 12:27pm

Dalton wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:My answer would be simple: "No. It's make-believe, like Santa Clause".
...there's no Santa?

Yes there is Dalton, don't worry. He said Santa Clause, Wong's just trying to convince himself that that Tim Allen movie didn't happen.

El Moose Monstero · Post by **El Moose Monstero** » 2003-12-18 12:34pm

Dalton wrote:
Darth Wong wrote:My answer would be simple: "No. It's make-believe, like Santa Clause".
...there's no Santa?

Wong, you heartless monster! At least put a spoiler warning up!

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 01:25pm

I personally don't see why it's necessary to tiptoe around the issue. Remeber, no believer is being gentle about ramming religion down her throat. She needs to hear a rebuttal of equal strength in order to counter the forces of indoctrination. She sounds like a bright kid. If you expose her to a different opinion and at the same encourage free thought I'm sure she'll develop an exceptional mind.

Zoink · Post by **Zoink** » 2003-12-18 01:58pm

Lazy Raptor wrote: I personally don't see why it's necessary to tiptoe around the issue. Remeber, no believer is being gentle about ramming religion down her throat.

Its not some nameless internet dweller, its your sister/brother's kid. If your sibling were religious then you might want to avoid the issue to avoid a family dispute. Whatever 3-second answer you give probably would do little to de-convert someone, but could open a whole can-of-worms.

This situation isn't really an issue for me (sister isn't religious, or have kids), but thinking about some cousins that age, I would just avoid the issue. I don't see the any value in answering the question other than to say [paraphrase] "find the answer for yourself".

In some cases, you might feel self-righteous at the time, but if you were to end up never being able to speak to that niece again, it might not have been worth it.

If that's not an issue/concern for you, then by all means go ahead! But for me, its not so much that certain relatives are super religious (only my great-aunts/uncles are), its more that they're really stubborn self-righteous people who might shun you for having the gall to tell their kid what to believe... I already have aunts/uncles who refuse to speak to each other.

Robert Walper · Post by **Robert Walper** » 2003-12-18 02:07pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:I personally don't see why it's necessary to tiptoe around the issue.

Well, there certainly isn't a need to tell your niece she's an ignorant shit for believing in something you don't. God is something of a subjective term in my opinion anyhow. That's why I call myself agnostic.

Remeber, no believer is being gentle about ramming religion down her throat.

I submit that is a rather hasty generalization. There are plenty of believers of specific religions guilty of this behavior, but there plenty who aren't either.

She needs to hear a rebuttal of equal strength in order to counter the forces of indoctrination.

Undoubtably, once I'd answered her original question, she'd give me others. I'd answer every one of them as honestly and truthfully as possible. If the parents complained or made an issue, I ask why they'd want me to lie to her about my personal beliefs.

She sounds like a bright kid.

Let's hope religion doesn't destroy that potential.

If you expose her to a different opinion and at the same encourage free thought I'm sure she'll develop an exceptional mind.

While I agree with the sentiment, your line "a rebuttal of equal strength" somewhat suggests an overly aggressive approach as some religous types employ. Particularily if it's along the lines "Don't believe in god!", "It's a load of shit!" or the like. I wouldn't condone that level of rebuttal to religous views, despite the opposite party potentailly doing so.

I could see this being potentially more effective since one side is giving her a choice(her choice), and the other is not, while also threatening her to make her conform to their views.

A complex situation really, with dynamic responses required.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 02:17pm

I wasn't suggesting that she be made to feel bad about herself or her parents for their belief. And of course, the winning strategy here is to allow and encourage her to think for herself. But the fact stands: She asks YOU if there is a god. In the interest of integrity I would give her an honest and unabbreviated answer.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2003-12-18 02:22pm

If my brother were to tell my daughter there is no God you can bet I would shove my foot so far up his ass he would have to open his mouth for me to tie my shoe. He is my brother and has NO RIGHT particulalrly since he has no kids to undermine the way I am raising my child. Would you people think it would be cool or serve some higher purpose to tell your brother's child that there was no Santa Claus?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-12-18 02:30pm

Stravo wrote:If my brother were to tell my daughter there is no God you can bet I would shove my foot so far up his ass he would have to open his mouth for me to tie my shoe. He is my brother and has NO RIGHT particulalrly since he has no kids to undermine the way I am raising my child. Would you people think it would be cool or serve some higher purpose to tell your brother's child that there was no Santa Claus?

So your brother is obligated to lie when talking to his niece? Wouldn't you rather that your daughter heard there was no Santa from someone she knew than Nelson at school?

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-18 02:31pm

Any family relationship must have a bond of trust involved. I do have nieces, and while none of them are of the asking age I do not intend to lie to them. If I am ever asked my opinion I will give my opinion. And yes, children should not be made to believe in Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy etc. Doing so only destabalizes the trust when the child realizes those figures are imaginary. Once again, if my brother was offended by me telling her daughter my opinion when asked and encouraging her to think for herself that's his major malfunction.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-12-18 02:33pm

I would have said something along the lines of "I honestly don't know" if I was in that situation.

Peregrin Toker · Post by **Peregrin Toker** » 2003-12-18 02:43pm

Zoink wrote:
Simon H.Johansen wrote: Remember the "Friends" episode where Ross still thought that a beloved, deceased pet dog wasn't dead?
I must have missed that one, but it sounds like Ross

Don't worry, as I stopped watching "Friends" a long, long time ago.... (and thusly barely remember it)

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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