TIE Atmospheric Capabilities

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Does anyone know how well TIEs can maneuver at low altitudes over planet surfaces?

[Mr Bean]

Terribly according to Wedge, According to him they have terrible Yaw Problems(Bad turning) and manviors they can pull in space with ease will rip them apart under atmosphere

[Kuja]

very poorly. The solar panels create a large amount drag, which means they have to speed up again, thus making them poor performers in atmosphere. They also get blown around more than rebel fighters

[Mr. Mister]

So does "very poorly" mean in comparison to atmospheric things, too? If a bunch of TIEs came down into the atmosphere and started a tussle with modern day airforces, would the fighters or the TIEs score more hits? What about older fighters, like Vietnam or WWII-era fighters? Could they score hits on TIEs? What about avoiding the targeting from the TIEs?

[Mr Bean]

So does "very poorly" mean in comparison to atmospheric things, too? If a bunch of TIEs came down into the atmosphere and started a tussle with modern day airforces, would the fighters or the TIEs score more hits? What about older fighters, like Vietnam or WWII-era fighters? Could they score hits on TIEs? What about avoiding the targeting from the TIEs?

Hmm according to Wedge also they loose none of thier speed(Or not enough to notice)

How WOULD a F-22 fair aginst Missle doing Mach 14? Or a Craft that does Mach 9?

[Alyeska]

IIRC one of the X-Wing series books listed the basic Tie as being sub-sonic in the atmosphere.

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

Okay, here's the reason I asked about TIE atmospheric capabilities: On the Hate Mail page dedicated to my undying stupidity (lol) I presented an alternative scenario to one the Darth Wong has on his site. Wong went to some length to speculate about my, shall we say, personal activities during my rewrite of that scenario with regard to a dogfight between Starfleet Type XI (or ST:I style) shuttlecraft -- which have demonstrated excellent atmospheric maneuverability -- versus a group of TIEs. Now, if what I'm hearing here is correct, positing a victorious outcome for the shuttlecraft wasn't quite as ludicrous as Darth Wong made it out to be.

(Incidentally, I had reservations about admitting to this reason for posting this question -- throuh my girlfriend's research into the "John Clark" dipshit(s), I suspected banning should I present this admission in the vs. forum, as Clark started his general dipshittery here, which seems to have set that whole rancid snowball in motion.)

[Mr Bean]

IIRC one of the X-Wing series books listed the basic Tie as being sub-sonic in the atmosphere.

That book would be?
And it if you refering to Wedge's Gamble I WILL hurt you

However from the fact also that they are able to enter and leave atmospheres of Earth type planets indicates they need a minium of 40,200 MPH or 11.17 KM per Second

331 Meters per second is the speed of sound
(11170meters per minute/331=33 Times the Speed of Sound)
If I did my math right
Which I probably did not

Hmm find my error in the morning time for sleep

[Raoul Duke, Jr.]

IIRC one of the X-Wing series books listed the basic Tie as being sub-sonic in the atmosphere.

That book would be?
And it if you refering to Wedge's Gamble I WILL hurt you

However from the fact also that they are able to enter and leave atmospheres of Earth type planets indicates they need a minium of 40,200 MPH or 11.17 KM per Second

331 Meters per second is the speed of sound
(11170meters per minute/331=33 Times the Speed of Sound)
If I did my math right
Which I probably did not

Hmm find my error in the morning time for sleep

That makes sense... if TIEs were strictly subsonic in atmosphere, they'd have a pretty hard time entering atmosphere, wouldn't they? lol

But straight-line speed doesn't address their maneuverability, does it? I mean, a Concorde is pretty fast, too, but I pity the fool who tries to pull an Immelmann in one...

[Alyeska]

IIRC one of the X-Wing series books listed the basic Tie as being sub-sonic in the atmosphere.

That book would be?
And it if you refering to Wedge's Gamble I WILL hurt you

However from the fact also that they are able to enter and leave atmospheres of Earth type planets indicates they need a minium of 40,200 MPH or 11.17 KM per Second

331 Meters per second is the speed of sound
(11170meters per minute/331=33 Times the Speed of Sound)
If I did my math right
Which I probably did not

Hmm find my error in the morning time for sleep

With current technology you need such speeds to escape. However if you have advanced engines that move you based on different properties it might move the fighter about so that you can leave the planet without having to accelerate to high speeds.

Although in Bacta war I recall it was going to take basic Tie-Fighters around 8 minutes to get from ground station to outer orbit where the Lusanya was. If you could make a basic calc on that, it gives us something other then a vague reference as to speed near a city.

[Mr Bean]

Although in Bacta war I recall it was going to take basic Tie-Fighters around 8 minutes to get from ground station to outer orbit where the Lusanya was. If you could make a basic calc on that, it gives us something other then a vague reference as to speed near a city.

Outer Orbit was beyond the Moon if you remeber as Eris Flee TOWARDs the planet and the moon then Corran was able to get her and double back

So High Orbit is either beyond moon orbit or they were VERY close to the moon

Hmm how far away is the Moon from the Earth?

If they can go past it or very close to it in less than or equal to Eight minutes(How many HOURS is it for Astronaughts?)

And what advance property are you suggesting gets them away from the planet? Planet Express Style Superdrive which moves the entire universe around it instead of moving the ship?

[Mr Bean]

Found it, its 384 400 Kms on Avarage


So 384400/8=48050Km-min /60=800.333 Km/sec
Hmm 800 Kms a sec thats an even HIGHER number there

[weemadando]

I'm imagining that TIEs would be best at "dropping" into the atmosphere at a shallow angle, skimming along on a strafing run before returning to orbit.

Because in Rogue Squadron (the game [YES I KNOW ITS NOT FUCKING CANON!]) they were nothing more than slow bitches with a turning circle the size of texas.

[Kuja]

So does "very poorly" mean in comparison to atmospheric things, too? If a bunch of TIEs came down into the atmosphere and started a tussle with modern day airforces, would the fighters or the TIEs score more hits? What about older fighters, like Vietnam or WWII-era fighters? Could they score hits on TIEs? What about avoiding the targeting from the TIEs?

Very poorly referred to fighting other starfighters in atmosphere. Consider: In Rogue Squadron, during the battle of Vladet, a TIE drops in behind Wedge. However, becasue of the wings, drag begins to pull the fighter back and it loses altitude. The pilot's reaction? Hit the thrusters, incidentally flying fight past Wedge and getting vaped (ouch).

If modern-day fighters were equipped with blasters insetead of machineguns, and engaged the TIE at cloes range instead of flying through a shooting gallery to get to them, they would tear the proud Imps apart (sniff).

[Icehawk]

Since virtually all craft in Star Wars employ repulor lift antigrav engines of some sort wouldn't this make the need for a high velocity to escape the gravity of a planet unnecessary? Im not saying TIE's are totally slow in atmosphere but at the same time I think that because of their awkward design they would be limited to at best around mach 2-3. Anything over that and they would likely start burning away the material on their solar wings. Their extremely advanced ion engines could likely make the craft go well beyond mach 3 while in atmosphere but the structure simply isn't designed to handle it.

With a repulsor lift device they should be able to escape the atmosphere and planet gravity without needing to achieve the speed it would normally take a modern earth craft to do. Once they get to orbit and they are not limited buy atmospheric friction they can accelerate to their true speeds.

[Icehawk]

Since virtually all craft in Star Wars employ repulor lift antigrav engines of some sort wouldn't this make the need for a high velocity to escape the gravity of a planet unnecessary? Im not saying TIE's are totally slow in atmosphere but at the same time I think that because of their awkward design they would be limited to at best around mach 2-3. Anything over that and they would likely start burning away the material on their solar wings (im being generous by assuming they have solar material that can withstand friction thats capable of melting titanium). Their extremely advanced ion engines could likely make the craft go well beyond mach 3 while in atmosphere but the structure simply isn't designed to handle it.

With a repulsor lift device they should be able to escape the atmosphere and planet gravity without needing to achieve the speed it would normally take a modern earth craft to do. Once they get to orbit and they are not limited buy atmospheric friction they can accelerate to their true speeds.

[Kuja]

The only repulsorlifts TIEs mount are tiny ones, used for slight manuevering in a hangar bay (for ex) There's no way they could dogfight using them.

Scimitar bombers, on the other hand, mount powerful repulsors, and use them to boost their dive bombing to over Mach 3 IIRC

[Icehawk]

The only repulsorlifts TIEs mount are tiny ones, used for slight manuevering in a hangar bay (for ex) There's no way they could dogfight using them.

I wasn't saying they utilize them for dogfighting and manuevering. I was only saying that they may be able to nullify the effects of a planets gravity enough that they don't need extreme speed to get back into orbit.

[Kuja]

Oh, ok. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Cal Wright]

Does anyone know how well TIEs can maneuver at low altitudes over planet surfaces?

Throw a brick. That'll give you a good estimation.

[Master of Ossus]

TIE's are actually surprisingly maneuverable in an atmosphere, by all accounts. Mind you, they lose a good deal of maneuverability from space, but they seem only slightly less nimble than X-Wings in the Rogue Squadron books when they do engage in atmospheric combat.

[Enlightenment]

It's fairly straight forward for something like a TIE to make orbit without flying at high mach numbers in air. All a TIE needs to do to make orbit is fly straight up until it's above the atmosphere (~100km), then reorient itself and turn on the power until it's accelerated to orbital velocity. The run directly up out of the atmosphere can be done at any speed whatsoever.

The same process can be reversed to enter an atmosphere without subjecting the air/space frame to reentry stresses: negate orbital velocity using the engines, then fly downwards in a controlled dive.

My point here is that the presense of TIEs in an atmosphere cannot be used to argue that they're capable of mach 25+ atmospheric flight.

[Mr. Mister]

No, high speeds aren't necessary to get out. All you have to do is have an upward force that exceeds the combined effects of gravity and air resistance. Theoretically, yeah, we could launch the space shuttle at a sustained speed of one meter per year, and it would eventually get into orbit (the number of reasons that's retarded and impractical to the point of impossible are things I don't think need listing). If a TIE can get from ground to moon-distance in under 10 minutes, that necessitates high speeds, regardless of whether repulsors or engines or magic fairy dust get used. Speed is "how much, how quickly". If you go from point A to point B, and they're far away, and you do it in a short of time, that's much distance in minimal time. In other words, high speed.

That a TIE could outrun any Earthen jet is a given. But do they have much in the way of maneuverability inside an atmosphere? They're really not all that aerodynamic a shape, if they try to change direction - or at least they don't seem to be.

[Kuja]

In Solo Cammand, an atmospheric battle took place between Ints. and X-wings in the middle of a storm. Although the X-wings were blown around a lot, the Int's were thrown around even harder, and the NR pilots used it to their advantage.

[Master of Ossus]

In Starfighters of Adumar, the TIE Interceptor is shown to be so maneuverable in the atmosphere that they are essentially invincible when up against the more primitive fighters that Adumar uses. Note that their performance in the atmosphere in reasonable conditions appears to be similar in most respects to that of the X-Wing, althought the X-Wing maintains a slight advantage.