Enterprise Episode -spit-

[Master of Ossus]

I agree that the Enterprise is a crappy warship. I just don't see any evidence that it can be improved upon by SF reasonably.

[Slartibartfast]

Space death by blood boil is an urban myth. In vaccum a human will lose consciousness in under a minute and die from lack of oxygen in 5-10 minutes. There have been a whole lot of threads on this subject in rec.arts.sf.science if anyone wants to Google for details and references.

Unless you try to hold your breath, in which case you die almost instantly as your lungs and throat (?) are ripped by the pressure. I read somewhere that you're supposed to empty your lungs, and live only on the oxygen in your blood... but no boiling that I know of.

[tharkûn]

I agree that the Enterprise is a crappy warship. I just don't see any evidence that it can be improved upon by SF reasonably.
Specialization.

Pick one attribute and optimize for it. Dump other qualities in order to beat your opponent in one. Normally the easiest way to do this is to up your fire power or to up your combat speed.

Hence why I suggest the carrier approach. The ship exists simply to transport fuel, arms, housing, etc. for much faster fighters with big missiles strapped on. If you have armaments it would be anti-fighter and possibly a few missiles.

You might still be outmatched horribly, but just about anything is better than being equally crappy at all things.

Give me today's tech, their engines/power generation assuming they are superior ... and I could design a ship that would kick their asses every time.

[Admiral_K]

Nice to see we have an Enterprise appologist here on the board (Admiral_K).

Even if it is a new timeline, that doesn't make up for B&B's "Fuck Continuity" attitude.

I'm not an "enterprise apologist". I merely am sick and tired of everyone glorifying TOS like it was so great and pissing and moaning because it doesn't fit right in with their idea of continuity. Heres a news flash: The plots in TOS weren't all that great. Sure it had a few good ones, but it also had its share of bad dialouge, poor plots, and stupid last minute solutions. It seems many trekkies and even some non trekkies want to look back through rose colored glasses and proclaim it as the pinnacle of Sci Fi.

"The Cage" for all intents and purposes isn't part of Star Trek. It was a failed pilot episode that they latter salavaged some of the footage from in another episode. Most trekkies draw their notion of when "phasers" were invented from this. MANY trekkie notions about timelines of when such and such were invented are derived from interpretation of episodes and little true evidence.

Finally, the multiple timeline is a part of trekology. Deal with it. We've seen it in TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager etc. etc.

[Kamakazie Sith]

MANY trekkie notions about timelines of when such and such were invented are derived from interpretation of episodes and little true evidence.

Umm the episodes are true evidence.....as far as sci-fi goes.

[Tsyroc]

Fine, it's a seperate timeline.
Who cares? IT'S STILL A FREAKING COP OUT.

I, for one, did not want to see a seperate timeline where continuity can be fucked with at will, I wanted to see humanity's first exploits before the Federation, that would fit in with TOS in the grand scheme of things, but I guess that was to much to ask with dumb and dumber in charge.

It isn't even written well, I've said it once and I'll say it again, Enterprise wouldn't even last one season if it didn't have Star Trek to leech off of.

I would have prefered it to better fit in with the supposed timeline of TOS but I pretty much gave that up when Voyager was screwing the pooch and making it so the whole back story of Khan had to be made rather wimpy in comparison to what had been stated in TOS. So in my opinion what changes they've made in continuity have either been acceptable (the Daedalus class ship was ugly) or minor compared to Voyager's crap. The writing on the other hand.... could definately be better.

Basically B/B have been fucking Trek continuity at will since Voyager started so why should they stop now. Even FC does it, although in more minor ways, but once it starts the big continuity glitches are easier to foist on the public. (Personally I think this is more Braga's thing since he's writing these things and has basically said he doesn't give a shit about continuity.).

You're probably right about Enterprise not lasting if it weren't linked to Trek. Most sci-fi shows don't get much of a chance to make it and by being associated with Trek people have more interest in it, even if they just tune in to see what's getting hosed this week.

I watched the first season of Voyager and then every now and then I would tune in. If the episode wasn't total crap I'd usually make it about
3/4s of the way through before something totally obnoxious or insulting happened. I so wish that show had never happened. Unfortunately it isn't going to go away. I liked DS9 so I figured I'd give Enterprise a try even though I thought the premise was a bad idea.

[Evil Jerk]

Nice to see we have an Enterprise appologist here on the board (Admiral_K).

Even if it is a new timeline, that doesn't make up for B&B's "Fuck Continuity" attitude.

I'm not an "enterprise apologist". I merely am sick and tired of everyone glorifying TOS like it was so great and pissing and moaning because it doesn't fit right in with their idea of continuity. Heres a news flash: The plots in TOS weren't all that great. Sure it had a few good ones, but it also had its share of bad dialouge, poor plots, and stupid last minute solutions. It seems many trekkies and even some non trekkies want to look back through rose colored glasses and proclaim it as the pinnacle of Sci Fi.

It was the pinnacle of Trek, at least.
Sure it had it's share of bad plots, but it had plenty of good ones, and they had meaning, and they didn't have technobabble and idiots in charge of a ship that shouldn't even be hauling garbage.

"The Cage" for all intents and purposes isn't part of Star Trek.
It was a failed pilot episode that they latter salavaged some of the footage from in another episode.

Which means it's canon either way, you have just contradicted yourself.

Most trekkies draw their notion of when "phasers" were invented from this. MANY trekkie notions about timelines of when such and such were invented are derived from interpretation of episodes and little true evidence.

Yes, let's throw away everything we've learnt from past episodes just so it's convenient.
Hey, we better ignore who really invented velcro too, it contradicts Enterprise.

Finally, the multiple timeline is a part of trekology. Deal with it. We've seen it in TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager etc. etc.

Oh shut up. Stop saying this like everybody doesn't accept it.
EVERYBODY KNOWS, we know that Trek has multiple timelines, it doesn't make it okay.
And seeing that Braga is a liar who refuses to admit it's another timeline and instead claims continuity is "airtight", this does make you an apologist.

I would have prefered it to better fit in with the supposed timeline of TOS but I pretty much gave that up when Voyager was screwing the pooch and making it so the whole back story of Khan had to be made rather wimpy in comparison to what had been stated in TOS. So in my opinion what changes they've made in continuity have either been acceptable (the Daedalus class ship was ugly) or minor compared to Voyager's crap. The writing on the other hand.... could definately be better.

However, Voyager had 7 seasons to fuck with continuity, Enterprise so far has had 1 & 1/4, and already some of their errors have been disturbingly glaring, so who knows how far they'll go.
It's not only the continuity either, the way they have their characters take credit for everything we know and love from TOS (not to mention some real life stuff too) is disgusting.
If those rumors about them making T'Pol Spock's grandmother are true, I WILL hunt B&B down with a rusty chainsaw.

(Personally I think this is more Braga's thing since he's writing these things and has basically said he doesn't give a shit about continuity.).

He seems to flip flop on that, one day he says he's paying attention to contiunity, the next he says it's not important. Stupid bastard.

I liked DS9 so I figured I'd give Enterprise a try even though I thought the premise was a bad idea.

I actually thought it was a good premise, and even after I saw Akiraprise and the stick figure with large breasts.. er.. T'Pol in a catsuit I was willing to give it a chance, I guess why all their fuck ups anger me so much.

[Master of Ossus]

I'm not an "enterprise apologist".

What would you call yourself? You consistently step in making excuses for why it's okay for Enterprise to violate continuity established in TNG and TOS (to my knowledge they have not contradicted DS9 or VOY, but the time will come).

I merely am sick and tired of everyone glorifying TOS like it was so great and pissing and moaning because it doesn't fit right in with their idea of continuity. Heres a news flash: The plots in TOS weren't all that great. Sure it had a few good ones, but it also had its share of bad dialouge, poor plots, and stupid last minute solutions. It seems many trekkies and even some non trekkies want to look back through rose colored glasses and proclaim it as the pinnacle of Sci Fi.

The problem is that Enterprise selected a time when they NEED to be willing to research to avoid violating continuity. They then made no effort to fit within continuity. Enterprise should not be able to undo what has been done, and it is clearly going against Gene's original vision for the ST universe.

I don't think that TOS is the pinnacle of sci-fi by any stretch of the imagination. I think B5 is clearly better, and I think that many movies are better. TOS, however, was the mmost consistently good ST show. It had great characters (which Enterprise lacks), and it was consistently well written and interesting. Many TNG episodes were probably as good as TOS, but by then the quality had become more dilluted. DS9 continued this trend, and Voyager was consistently stupid. Thus, TOS and TNG are almost certainly the best ST series.

Finally, the multiple timeline is a part of trekology. Deal with it. We've seen it in TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager etc. etc.

Yeah. So? Are you claiming that Enterprise is in its own timeline, and is wholly separate from TNG, DS9, VOY, and TOS?