I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open armsBible Belt missionaries set out on a 'war for souls' in Iraq
(Filed: 27/12/2003)
US Christian evangelists want to "save Muslim souls" in Iraq, writes David Rennie in Cleveland
American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity".
Organising in secrecy, and emphasising their humanitarian aid work, Christian groups are pouring into the country, which is 97 per cent Muslim, bearing Arabic Bibles, videos and religious tracts designed to "save" Muslims from their "false" religion.
The International Mission Board, the missionary arm of the Southern Baptists, is one of those leading the charge.
John Brady, the IMB's head for the Middle East and North Africa, this month appealed to the 16 million members of his church, the largest Protestant denomination in America.
"Southern Baptists have prayed for years that Iraq would somehow be opened to the gospel," his appeal began. That "open door" for Christians may soon close.
"Southern Baptists must understand that there is a war for souls under way in Iraq," his bulletin added, listing Islamic leaders and "pseudo-Christian" groups also flooding Iraq as his chief rivals.
The missionaries are mainly evangelicals who reject talk of Muslims and Christians worshipping the same God.
Jerry Vines, former head of the Southern Baptist Convention, has described the Prophet Mohammed as a "demon-obsessed paedophile". Franklin Graham, son of Billy Graham and the head of Samaritan's Purse, a big donor to Iraq, has described Islam as a "very evil and wicked religion".
The missionaries pose a dilemma for President George W Bush. He has reached out to Muslims since September 11, shrugging off criticism from evangelicals to describe Islam as "peaceful". But Christian conservatives are also a key Bush constituency: Franklin Graham delivered the invocation prayer at his presidential inauguration.
The US Agency for International Development has said that the government cannot rein in private charities. "Imagine what the US Congress would say to us," said a spokesman in April.
Jon Hanna, an evangelical from Ohio who has recently returned from Iraq, applied for a new passport to travel there, describing himself as a humanitarian worker. "I was worried the US authorities might try to stop us, might be worried we were going to start a riot with our Bibles."
In Baghdad last month Mr Hanna met two other American missionary teams. One, from Indiana, had shipped in 1.3 million Christian tracts. "A US passport is all you need to get in, until the new Iraqi government takes over. What we thought was a two-year window, originally, has narrowed down to a six month window," said Mr Hanna, an evangelical minister and editor of Connection Magazine, a Christian newspaper in Ohio.
He describes Islam as "false". He cited St John's Gospel, saying: "Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist."
Mr Hanna concluded: "The Muslim religion is an antichrist religion." Later Mr Hanna asked to retract that choice of words. "Without the reader hearing my voice and looking into my eyes as I made that statement, it would be easy for certain readers to feel personally attacked and be offended," Mr Hanna wrote by email. "That would be unfruitful."
He rejected the suggestion that aid work was a "cover" for missionary work, preferring to call it a "conduit for sharing the gospel of Jesus. Christians are commanded to minister to the hungry, but also to the hunger of the spirit. It can't be separated," he said.
In public, the largest groups put the emphasis on their delivery of food parcels and their medical work. However, their internal fund-raising materials emphasise mission work. One IMB bulletin reported aid workers handing out copies of the New Testament and praying with Muslim recipients. Another bulletin said Iraqis understood "who was bringing the food . . . it was the Christians from America."
Southern Baptists from North Carolina visited Iraq in October to help hand out 45,000 boxes of donated food. One of the team, Jim Walker, told IMB's Urgent News bulletin that he met village children "starved of attention and I could tell some of them have not eaten well. But their biggest need is to know the love of Christ."
Mr Hanna said he encountered friendly curiosity, with noisy crowds gathering to take his group's tracts. "Maybe 10 per cent were hostile." He was one of 21 on his mission including Jackie Cone, 72, a Pentecostalist grandmother from Ohio who said God had told her to join a second mission planned for next year. "I sensed Him telling me to come back in January," she said.
Mrs Cone is confident she made converts in Baghdad. In her hotel she met a Muslim woman on crutches with a leg operation due that day. Mrs Cone knelt on the lobby floor and prayed that surgery would not be required.
"I saw her that evening and she said God had healed her, and she hadn't needed the surgery. She didn't say Allah, she pointed to Heaven and gave God the glory," she said.
Mrs Cone led the Kurdish woman and her brother in prayer, asking Jesus into their hearts. "I'd given them a Bible and a Jesus video in Arabic. I think they think of themselves as Christians now," she said. "They have the Bible and I hope they will grow in grace."
Muslims are hard converts, American missionaries admit. The large organisations have experts trained in refuting Muslim teachings that Jesus is just another prophet.
Before going to Iraq, Mr Hanna studied Christian training manuals and attended a seminar for missionaries to the Arab world.
Mr Hanna concedes his new Iraqi friends were possibly drawn by the novelty of meeting Americans. "But you don't discount that, you use it as an opportunity to tell them about Jesus. Last time we only took 8,000 Arabic Bibles to Iraq. In future missions the goal is one million."
Just What Irag Needs
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Just What Irag Needs
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People like these are the reason I don't do Organized Christianity.
Now pardon me as I go pray in silence for these poor fools.
Now pardon me as I go pray in silence for these poor fools.
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
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I predict a sudden increase in the numbers of Christian Martyrs over in Iraq.
Not that it’s a bad thing; those dumbasses are prime candidates for an Darvin award.
Not that it’s a bad thing; those dumbasses are prime candidates for an Darvin award.
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"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus
Fear is the mother of all gods.
Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius
"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; or he can, but does not want to. ... If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. ... If, as they say, God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world?" -Epicurus
Fear is the mother of all gods.
Nature does all things spontaneously, by herself, without the meddling of the gods. -Lucretius
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Re: Just What Irag Needs
Open Kalashnikov's perhaps. Good riddence I say. If they are so foolish as to walk into Iraq in 19th century mode, they deserve to be shot.Sharp-kun wrote: I'm sure they'll be welcomed with open arms
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They've already been receiving a very sour reception from the Russians and eastern Europeans. I guess the think they'll have more luck trying to convert the Muslims.
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Apparently they want to most unique suicide award.
Yeah...the Muslims are an evil religon...let's go visit some!
Yeah...the Muslims are an evil religon...let's go visit some!
MM /CF/WG/BOTM/JL/Original Warsie/ACPATHNTDWATGODW FOREVER!!
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Sometimes we can choose the path we follow. Sometimes our choices are made for us. And sometimes we have no choice at all
Saying and doing are chocolate and concrete
Finally... I am waiting for the good Pope (on his death bed) to (and in conjunction with his holiness the Dalai Lama) to declare another Crusade so we can retake the Holy Land!
Heh, I should do a comic about that. I am sure that the US will lend us some Abrams.
Heh, I should do a comic about that. I am sure that the US will lend us some Abrams.
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Well, I'm not stopping them. If they really, really want to die, who am I to stop them?
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These stupid fucknuts are going to get their fool heads blown off! I can think of so many other things to do with my time than trying to "convert" people of another country that just happens to be a freakin WAR ZONE!!!
I don't want to say that they deserve to die. But, if someone gets shot in the ass, I'm not going to shed a tear.
Instead, I'll save my hopes to the U.S. soldiers who are inevitably going to get hurt defending these jackasses.
I don't want to say that they deserve to die. But, if someone gets shot in the ass, I'm not going to shed a tear.
Instead, I'll save my hopes to the U.S. soldiers who are inevitably going to get hurt defending these jackasses.
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"I object to you. I object to intellect without discipline. I object to power without constructive purpose."
-Spock, 'The Squire of Gothos'
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Hmm, this could be good or bad. Many missionaries do lots of humanitarian good for places, believe it or not, as they pour in money for food and shelter. If done correctly, such as 'conversion by example' and not trying to force anything on anyone, then this could be not only successful for them, but for the betterment of those around them.
You'll find most missionaries are far from Bible-thumping 'fundies' you see on TV. I know quite a few, and they are as normal as you or I.
You'll find most missionaries are far from Bible-thumping 'fundies' you see on TV. I know quite a few, and they are as normal as you or I.
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Onward Christian soldiers! As long as you have faith God will not let you die at the hands of the people you are trying to save. March straight into the hot zones with a bible in your left hand, a cross in your right and your head held high for you are about to do a most wonderful service for all humanity.
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The occupation will last only a year? Doesn't that seem... too short a time? What's going to happen after the US pulls out?American Christian missionaries have declared a "war for souls" in Iraq, telling supporters that the formal end of the US-led occupation next June will close an historic "window of opportunity".
Oh yeah - Christian missionaries... well, what're you gonna do?
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I thought that Eastern Europe was a predominantly Christian region, so why would the American preacher-types even bother with them?Crayz9000 wrote:They've already been receiving a very sour reception from the Russians and eastern Europeans.
(unless, of course, they don't consider the Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches to be "proper" christianity...)
"Hi there, would you like to have a cookie?"
"No, actually I would HATE to have a cookie, you vapid waste of inedible flesh!"
"No, actually I would HATE to have a cookie, you vapid waste of inedible flesh!"
Frankly, I find linking aid to religion extremely repulsive, and most of the helper christian workers I know seems to do that. I always seem to get the gut feeling that their condition to them giving aid is that you believe in Christ.Nathan F wrote:Hmm, this could be good or bad. Many missionaries do lots of humanitarian good for places, believe it or not, as they pour in money for food and shelter. If done correctly, such as 'conversion by example' and not trying to force anything on anyone, then this could be not only successful for them, but for the betterment of those around them.
You'll find most missionaries are far from Bible-thumping 'fundies' you see on TV. I know quite a few, and they are as normal as you or I.
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
If they're anything like the dumbasses I used to know, they don't. Believe me, they don't.Simon H.Johansen wrote:I thought that Eastern Europe was a predominantly Christian region, so why would the American preacher-types even bother with them?Crayz9000 wrote:They've already been receiving a very sour reception from the Russians and eastern Europeans.
(unless, of course, they don't consider the Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches to be "proper" christianity...)
I know a retired diplomat who used to be the US Ambassador to Nepal. He told me that missionaries came in two flavors:
First were the nice guys. Sure, they were supposedly there to convert people to Christianity, but they never pushed it. First and foremost they were there to build clinics and schools, dig wells, teach the children to read and write, feed the poor, give immunizations, etc. If someone was interested in Christianity after seeing this guy do all these good things without any material benefit to himself, fine, but if they weren't interested he didn't care because he was doing good.
This first kind my diplomat friend liked a lot. He's an atheist, but he became good friends with many of them. (Many of them knew he was, but they didn't mind either.)
The second type were the missionaries who barge on in, sometimes pretending that they were aid workers and mmost of the time not even bothering with the farce. They usually ended up in some place in the middle of nowhere and managed to insult EVERYBODY in the area within a week of arrival without even knowing the local language (or any language other than their brand of English, rather). They would always threaten to make a big international scene about everything they did, and spit and kicked when they were told that they would be deported. The diplomat, since he had to be diplomatic about it and not tell them to screw off, pretended that he was doing something to keep them in the country while doing as little as possible on their behalf.
From the opening article of this topic, I think that the missionaries we're talking about fit the latter category. The former wouldn't be such imbeciles.
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SDNW4 Nation: The Refuge And, on Nova Terra, Al-Stan the Totally and Completely Honest and Legitimate Weapons Dealer and Used Starship Salesman slept on a bed made of money, with a blaster under his pillow and his sombrero pulled over his face. This is to say, he slept very well indeed.
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What are you, STUPID? Their actions will only confirm what the Mullahs have been saying: that this war is a pretext for the expansion of Christianity. Don't you realize that they've been referring to it as another Christian crusade this whole time? Are you that ignorant? It will inflame passions, confirm the Mullahs' inflammatory rhetoric, and cause MORE problems.Cosmic Average wrote:I personally don't see much of a problem. The missionaries are providing aid, practicing the good free speech, and their actions could stop a few potential suicide bombers from strapping bombs to themselves and killing dozens.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
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http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
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Of course, they're only UNDERMINING THE WAR EFFORT. After all this talk about not fighting a war against Islam, after all our efforts to be sensitive to the beliefs and traditions of Muslims, these asshats are going to go in and fuck it all up for us. How many more servicemen are we going to lose after this stunt convinces more Iraqis to pick up a gun and fight the great Satan? I seriousily hope the Iraqis are smart enough to shoot at the missionaries rather than our troops. They are the ones pissing on their religion, and at least they won't shoot back.Cosmic Average wrote:I personally don't see much of a problem.
The most basic assumption about the world is that it does not contradict itself.
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They're generally talking about the old Soviet republics, where religion was illegal. Many people are also in terrible poverty, and, believe it or not, many missionaries are there for the humanitarian aspect of it, with conversion coming in second.Simon H.Johansen wrote:I thought that Eastern Europe was a predominantly Christian region, so why would the American preacher-types even bother with them?Crayz9000 wrote:They've already been receiving a very sour reception from the Russians and eastern Europeans.
(unless, of course, they don't consider the Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches to be "proper" christianity...)
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These people are calling Islam a Satanic religion, linking it with the 'antichrist' and list their number one reason for going to 'save Muslim souls'. Frankly, I don't think immunizations and construction work is very high on their list of priorities.
I must say, however, that I would be interested in seeing a Mullah vs Jesuit cage match.
I must say, however, that I would be interested in seeing a Mullah vs Jesuit cage match.
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