Howie 'Sawdust' Dean finds Jesus!

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-12-28 01:31pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:Once the the mainstream south learns of the fact that Dean changed denominations over a stupid road path, this new convsersion by Dean to seam more Christian will fall on deaf ears.

What will it matter? Bush has been kissing Christian ass for years now. Dean could never catch up to the amount cocksucking Bush has done between now and the election.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-12-28 01:31pm

Simon H.Johansen wrote:
But if the third parties are really clever, they can at least use this as an opportunity to gain the support of more secularly-minded voters.

Inorder to be a sucessfull party, you need the support of a good majority of the people. Otherwise, third Parties will be clobbered come election time.

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-12-28 01:32pm

Wicked Pilot wrote: What will it matter? Bush has been kissing Christian ass for years now. Dean could never catch up to the amount cocksucking Bush has done between now and the election.

I agree with you on this point.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-12-28 02:03pm

Strawman. Just because the country's not run by priests or has laws copied straight out of the Bible doesn't mean the government can't respect religious establishments, which would be a direct violation of the First Amendment.

When did the Supreme Court rule against the Constitutionality of the government’s giving money to religious service organizations so long as their aid is distribution among all comers?

This is like saying that nearly half of Americans are fundie idiots, based on the Gallup and Time magazine polls indicating that nearly half of Americans think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so. It sounds harsh, but it's not plucked out of thin air so it's not exactly unfair.

Religion is generally imprinted by early youth; there’s no valid reason to assume that anybody who believes that God created the world or accepts the Bible as fact must be stupid. You’ve never met an intelligent theologian of any faith?

Can you give me a reason other than outdated religious dogma to oppose first-term abortion?

Some people believe that it is murder as soon as a single brain cell forms. Since murder is wrong, so is abortion.

There's no point even asking the troll to explain himself. Notice how he equates anti-abortion extremism to "having moral values". His "rebuttal" completely avoided the point, and served no purpose other than to give him the pleasure of hearing his own lips flap about in the wind.

Anti-abortion extremism? No; anti-abortion.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-12-28 02:18pm

Lazy Raptor wrote:An ABC/Washington post poll released this week showed that 46 percent of Southerners are fucking retarded.

Keep your flamebait out of my forum. If you have something substantive to add, then feel free to comment. If all you have is bullshit like this, then make sure Newton's still right and jump in front of a moving train. I eagerly await the results.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-28 02:30pm

Some people believe that it is murder as soon as a single brain cell forms. Since murder is wrong, so is abortion.

The source of this belief being, again, irrational religious dogma. Brain cells are just empty vessels until they start generating brain waves, i.e, thoughts and actual brain activity, the stuff that makes us human. It is up to so-called secular anti-abortionists to prove that they are something more.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-12-28 02:54pm

Axis Kast wrote:When did the Supreme Court rule against the Constitutionality of the government’s giving money to religious service organizations so long as their aid is distribution among all comers?

When they ruled that the government can't give money to any organization that practices discrimination of any kind, regardless of whether it's customers OR EMPLOYEES, dumb-ass.

This is like saying that nearly half of Americans are fundie idiots, based on the Gallup and Time magazine polls indicating that nearly half of Americans think the Earth is less than 10,000 years old because the Bible says so. It sounds harsh, but it's not plucked out of thin air so it's not exactly unfair.
Religion is generally imprinted by early youth; there’s no valid reason to assume that anybody who believes that God created the world or accepts the Bible as fact must be stupid.

Except for that the fact that IT'S A STUPID BELIEF, dumb-ass. If somebody was brainwashed to think the world was flat, are you saying you would refuse to conclude that he's an idiot for saying that the world is flat?

You’ve never met an intelligent theologian of any faith?

Yes, I've met theologians who accept that the Earth is billions of years old. However, I have never met a person who thought that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and was not an idiot, and I never will because IT IS AN IDIOTIC BELIEF. If someone says and does stupid things, it is perfectly reasonable to call him a stupid person, dumb-ass.

Can you give me a reason other than outdated religious dogma to oppose first-term abortion?
Some people believe that it is murder as soon as a single brain cell forms. Since murder is wrong, so is abortion.

Those people just happen to be religious people trying to make secular-sounding arguments for their beliefs, dumb-ass. By all means, find me examples of these people who are atheists yet hold Catholic views on abortion.

Anti-abortion extremism? No; anti-abortion.

The fact that you view it as a black/white issue (anti-abortion, either on or off) only indicates that you are too fucking stupid to even discuss the subject, never mind address the concept of extremism on the issue.

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2003-12-28 03:16pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote:

Inorder to be a sucessfull party, you need the support of a good majority of the people. Otherwise, third Parties will be clobbered come election time.

Obviously that's true, but I'm not a Libertarian because I believe that there will be a Libertarian president in '04. I believe that if even a sizeable minority votes third party, the Dems and Repubs will have to take notice, and adjust their issues accordingly. Also, if enough conservatives genuinely want smaller gov't, not the current Republican "Only when we aren't in office" model, then the Libertarians look like a fine alternative.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-28 03:21pm

You're batshit crazy if you think the Libertarians have a chance in 2004. There will be a President from one of the two major parties in office come 2005, most likely the current President.

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2003-12-28 03:33pm

Uh...I didn't say otherwise Joe.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-12-28 03:50pm

Ah, mea culpa, mea culpa....all I saw was "I believe that there will be a Libertarian president in '04." Too quick, I responded.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-28 04:05pm

It's sweet how you're all rushing out to defend the honor of the South, it really is. There's just one problem, you're responding to a threat that isn't there. It's obvious (painfully so) that I was in no way targeting Southerners in general. As others have noted, the fundamentalist phenomenon is in no way contained to the Southern states. Idiocy of that flavor is one of America's chief exports. And if you thought I was of the inclination that it's any better in the northern states I can most emphatically tell you that it is not. I apologize for any misunderstanding, but I do not apologize for the statement, because if you had a problem with it, it's because you misunderstood it and that would honestly be my fault. However, if you agree with the moronic idea that elected officials should allow their religious beliefs to influence their policy decisions then my above explicitive most certainly does apply!

EmperorSolo51 · Post by **EmperorSolo51** » 2003-12-28 05:26pm

Gunshy wrote:
Obviously that's true, but I'm not a Libertarian because I believe that there will be a Libertarian president in '04. I believe that if even a sizeable minority votes third party, the Dems and Repubs will have to take notice, and adjust their issues accordingly. Also, if enough conservatives genuinely want smaller gov't, not the current Republican "Only when we aren't in office" model, then the Libertarians look like a fine alternative.

I agree with the idea that if enough people vote for a third party it will force the 2 other parties to take notice. However, that will not happen unless the third party electorate votes for a single third party candidate. With the third party voters split amongst the hundreds of third parties in this country, there will never be a day for a Third Party to be a serious or even a mediocre threat to the 2 current parties.

As for your idea that Libertarians are a fine alternative to the Republicans, They are not conservative in the least. They are very liberal socially and thier ideas about having the police and fire departments funded by only the people who want it funded make them nuts.

Gunshy · Post by **Gunshy** » 2003-12-28 05:40pm

I didn't say a fine alternative for Republicans, I said a fine alternative for conservatives. That is to say those who genuinely want smaller government, not just when they are out of power, but always.

And I don't consider myself any less a conservative because I am for greater personal freedom. I don't want the government saying what I can and can't do with my body, any more I want government saying what I can and can't do with my place of business.

And what Libertarian candidate has said that about police and fire departments?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2003-12-28 05:40pm

EmperorSolo51 wrote: As for your idea that Libertarians are a fine alternative to the Republicans, They are not conservative in the least. They are very liberal socially and thier ideas about having the police and fire departments funded by only the people who want it funded make them nuts.

What's wrong with being socially liberal? I like the Republicans when they actually act 'fiscally conservative,' but I'm also afraid to vote for them because it means I'll probably end up supporting the Religious Wrong. I like the Democrats on social issues but I dislike their socialist slant. Libertarians are the best of both worlds for me.

As for the police and fire departments...we'll work on that after the bigger issues have been settled (meaning those will still be government funded, probably; there's a big difference between political theory and working politics, after all).

- Proudly throwing my vote away since I turned 18

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2003-12-28 05:44pm

Gunshy wrote:And what Libertarian candidate has said that about police and fire departments?

He's just being a dumbass and building a strawman from the most extremist fringe. I mentioned that in my previous post just to be an ass back at him.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-12-29 03:24pm

The source of this belief being, again, irrational religious dogma.

You cannot make that determination. You have no means by which to prove that every human being opposed to abortion is somehow “tainted” by “irrational religious dogma.”

When they ruled that the government can't give money to any organization that practices discrimination of any kind, regardless of whether it's customers OR EMPLOYEES, dumb-ass.

So the plan to coordinate public service through religious institutions was specifically declared unconstitutional?

Except for that the fact that IT'S A STUPID BELIEF, dumb-ass. If somebody was brainwashed to think the world was flat, are you saying you would refuse to conclude that he's an idiot for saying that the world is flat?

The point, Wong, is that their religious beliefs don’t tell us the totality of their intelligence, nor the depth of their knowledge. To make blanket assessments of their intellect based on religion – whose very center is acceptance of that which cannot necessarily be proven and which has been with us since the dawn of our existence – is presumptuous and arrogant.

Yes, I've met theologians who accept that the Earth is billions of years old. However, I have never met a person who thought that the Earth is less than 10,000 years old and was not an idiot, and I never will because IT IS AN IDIOTIC BELIEF. If someone says and does stupid things, it is perfectly reasonable to call him a stupid person, dumb-ass.

We may consider their views foolish; I would never dismiss a person as a moron simply because of my understanding of their religious beliefs.

Those people just happen to be religious people trying to make secular-sounding arguments for their beliefs, dumb-ass. By all means, find me examples of these people who are atheists yet hold Catholic views on abortion.

Since when is everybody against abortion a Catholic? I know many people who claim no religious affiliation whatsoever but continue to maintain that abortion is wrong because once the child is conceived, to stamp out the potential that is life is murder in their eyes.

The fact that you view it as a black/white issue (anti-abortion, either on or off) only indicates that you are too fucking stupid to even discuss the subject, never mind address the concept of extremism on the issue.

Since when is anti-abortion necessarily extremism?

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-29 06:35pm

We may consider their views foolish; I would never dismiss a person as a moron simply because of my understanding of their religious beliefs.

Stupid people think and believe in stupid things, despite evidence to the contrary. If someone thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old dspite massive amounts of data disproving it, they're stupid, and that's all there is to it.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2003-12-29 08:15pm

This is a whole new level of pandering. A 10 of 10 on the scale of Ass-suckery.

Does this moron actually believe that southern christian voters will instantly look kindly on a north east liberal who has magically and conveniently found his faith in Jesus? Dixie isn't going to swing from red to blue because Ho Dean looked dug through his playbook and found some religion?

Christians will see it as a blatant farce with their deepest conviction and treat Dean accordingly. All of his pinko friends will notice his hypocrisy and remember as well.

Darth Raptor · Post by **Darth Raptor** » 2003-12-29 09:35pm

I don't think it was intended to win over the South. He tried that with the Confederate flag reference and it blew up in his face. This recent move is probably to win over some of the moderate crowd.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-12-30 12:48pm

Stupid people think and believe in stupid things, despite evidence to the contrary. If someone thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old dspite massive amounts of data disproving it, they're stupid, and that's all there is to it.

Religious beliefs - inherently illogical and irrational and yet such a vital part of the human experience - have no direct bearing on the totality of an individual's intelligence.

Keevan_Colton · Post by **Keevan_Colton** » 2003-12-30 01:39pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Stupid people think and believe in stupid things, despite evidence to the contrary. If someone thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old dspite massive amounts of data disproving it, they're stupid, and that's all there is to it.
Religious beliefs - inherently illogical and irrational and yet such a vital part of the human experience - have no direct bearing on the totality of an individual's intelligence.

Actually, from a strictly legal standpoint, in most modern nations, showing someones belief in something as stupid as YEC is perfectly acceptable grounds for calling them a fucking moron in print....much as your bullshit about tigers and various other things validate calling you a complete smegging waste of oxygen and bandwith.

Axis Kast · Post by **Axis Kast** » 2003-12-30 02:57pm

Blanket statements. Opinions like that are nothing more than arrogant pronunciations. Again, we return to, "I'm a big boy, and everything I do, say, or think is always right, all the time. Anyone who disagrees with me, I'll call them names!"

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-30 05:52pm

Axis Kast wrote:
Stupid people think and believe in stupid things, despite evidence to the contrary. If someone thinks the earth is only a few thousand years old despite massive amounts of data disproving it, they're stupid, and that's all there is to it.
Religious beliefs - inherently illogical and irrational and yet such a vital part of the human experience - have no direct bearing on the totality of an individual's intelligence.

Weeell, that depends on exactly what those beliefs are. Not all thoughts are created equal. A moderate Christian or a Deist is probably all right, but YECs and flat-earthers are retarded, at best.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-12-30 06:52pm

Axis Kast wrote:Religious beliefs - inherently illogical and irrational and yet such a vital part of the human experience - have no direct bearing on the totality of an individual's intelligence.

Your statement is testible. I'd like to see the stats comparing something like intelligence or education level to something like religious beliefs or church attendance rate.