Astromech Driod vs. Cube

[Robert Walper]

The only interfaces on Borg vessels I'm aware of is their regeneration alcoves. I hardly expect a R2 unit to successfully sit in one.

Thats ridiculous. If the only access point is the regeneration nodes, why are would the Borg get out of them.

Perform repairs, assimilate victims in assimilation chambers, monitor and direct onboard systems, etc. When I said "interface", I was implying a physical access port, of which I've seen only one example aboard a Borg ship. That was in BoBW, and it was merely an interface for a Borg drone to regenerate by gathering energy to fuel it's artificial components.

Durring the TNG scenes with crew inside the cube, numerous drones are walking around and ignoring the crew as they are not a threat. Why would they be walking around if their work station and bunk are the same regeneration node?

I was saying that the only physical access port I've ever seen is in a Borg alcove, which only feeds energy to a Borg drone, nothing more. The rest of the ship the Borg access is through the typical Trek touch panels, which I'm extremely dubious R2 could use.

Other interfaces Borg drones use are control panels, similar to Federation touch screen panels. I don't see how a R2 unit would utilize those, since it apparently lacks arms and fingers to work them effectively(not to mention simply being to short to boot).

In regards to Borg drones interfacing with alien computer systems and the like, they use their forearm assimilation tubules to actually stab into enemy control panels and attempt to take control from there.

Those two paragraphs conterdict each other.

No, they don't.

IF the Borg use their tubes to touch or insert their own hardware/software into control pannels,

In alien vessels. Please read more carefully.

whats the beef with an R2 unit using its probes/arms/onboard equipment to do the same.

Submit evidence that R2 units use their adapters or have equipment designed to punch into alien computer consoles instead of requiring a access port designed specifically for them.

Can not an R2 unit install its own software/hardware into the system to manipulate it?

If R2 can find a physical access port compatible with his adapters, he could certainly try. However, I see no reason to assume he could, especially since we've seen no such access ports on Borg vessels.

As to hacking into the Borg Collective's subspace signals, this has only been done through a Borg drone, which I'm extremely dubious R2 would successfully capture and utilize in this manner. Furthermore, even Data's attempts to access critical Borg system in BoBW resulted in him being stumped by Borg security measures and declaring all critical systems protected.

And why would the R2 need a drone's tranciever to scan frequencies and find the one that the Borg are using?

Maybe I've missed earlier infromation in the thread. Does an R2 unit use subpsace signals? Are they compatible with Borg ones? Does R2 even know the Borg use subspace signals?

Borg subspace signals are apparently similar in nature to transporter signals(STTNG "Best of Both Worlds"), a technology, so far as I know, completely foreign to the Star Wars technology base.

Picard ripped one out of a drone because he didn't have any resources handy to use his own gear.

Are you suggesting R2 could physically incapacitate and remove internal hardware from a Borg drone? This seems a rather bold assumption since:
1) R2 would become a threat to the Borg on that vessel. In my opinion, that spells the end for that R2 unit.
2) The R2 unit knows exactly what's it's looking for...which brings up the question how?
3) The R2 unit can understand a completely foreign technology base, and utilize it better than the Federation's andriod.
4) The R2 unit has the capability to disable a drone and extract a piece of technology from inside said drone. Again, how does the R2 unit know this?

[Knife]

R2 can probably access the cubes computers either through a terminal (touch screen thingy), or computer outlet, or possibly splice his ass into a network through hardware.

Starwars.com defines the R2 series as

Astromech droids are a series of versatile utility robots generally used for the maintenance and repair of starships and related technology. These small droids are often equipped with a variety of tool-tipped appendages that are stowed in recessed compartments. The R2-unit is a popular example of an astromech droid.

And R2 specifically as

A resourceful, spunky and adventurous astromech droid, R2-D2 has saved the day time and again. His little .96-meter tall frame is packed with all sorts of tool-tipped appendages that make him a great starship mechanic and computer interface specialist. It's his bravery, however, that has made him an invaluable asset to his owners and friends.

Note the computer interface specialist. Also note that in the SW universe not every thing is Starfleet or Imperial standard though a lot of things are, this means that to be a computer interface specialist, R2 would have to be adaptable to various forms of computers from different species.

R2 would be able to access Borg computer screens via his articulated arm atop his head/dome as seen in RotJ. Truely, if R2 can serve a drink with the arm he should be able to push buttons on a touch screen with it.

For a direct hook up, he has his standard plug which I agree will be of little use. But in Cloud City in ESB and the bunker at RotJ, R2 used a claw like extension to access computers showing a versitility in accessing various forms of computers as would be needed in a computer specialist in the SW universe.

On a side note; R2 could also access through the USB like cable shown in ANH but that would require help. So its out.

As for subspace. It is mentioned in some of the EU so it is a know phenomenom in the SW universe.

[Slartibartfast]

His claw-like appendage seems to be a generic tap, something that can be used in anything. All he needs is to find a piece of wire from the Borg's ethernet network, dig a little bit and clamp this claw into it, directly tapping the TCP/IP signals.

[The Yosemite Bear]

at which point he discovers that his Unix operating system is not compatible with Windows Borg edition.

[Lancer]

at which point he discovers that his Unix operating system is not compatible with Windows Borg edition.

More likely the Borg are an alternate universe version of Microsoft, that would explain the assimilation deal.

[The Yosemite Bear]

That's what I always have thought, I even have the photoshopped "evidence" to prove it.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Of course at which point the R2 unit appeals to a Bios command line and opens a windows expliot hole.....

[Lancer]

Of course at which point the R2 unit appeals to a Bios command line and opens a windows expliot hole.....

And is destroyed when the Cube as a result decides to crash-land at warp speed into the planet R2 was trying to save.

[The Yosemite Bear]

So what happens when the R2 runs a format?

[The Yosemite Bear]

So what happens when the R2 runs a format?

Answeing my own question it would probably look something like this

Format Borg Cube
Are you sure you want to do this: y
Borg cube file structure is not Glactix compatable:
Full format install Galactix file structure.
Processing................................ <Snip>
..................................................<Snip>
............................................Done

[Lancer]

R2 can probably access the cubes computers either through a terminal (touch screen thingy), or computer outlet, or possibly splice his ass into a network through hardware.

Starwars.com defines the R2 series as

Astromech droids are a series of versatile utility robots generally used for the maintenance and repair of starships and related technology. These small droids are often equipped with a variety of tool-tipped appendages that are stowed in recessed compartments. The R2-unit is a popular example of an astromech droid.

And R2 specifically as

A resourceful, spunky and adventurous astromech droid, R2-D2 has saved the day time and again. His little .96-meter tall frame is packed with all sorts of tool-tipped appendages that make him a great starship mechanic and computer interface specialist. It's his bravery, however, that has made him an invaluable asset to his owners and friends.

Note the computer interface specialist. Also note that in the SW universe not every thing is Starfleet or Imperial standard though a lot of things are, this means that to be a computer interface specialist, R2 would have to be adaptable to various forms of computers from different species.

So R2 has the capability to tap into conventional electronics, from your multiple posts above. Any idea on how that is going to help him tap into optical signals (ODN stands for Optical Data Network), which are the basis for ST computers?

R2 would be able to access Borg computer screens via his articulated arm atop his head/dome as seen in RotJ. Truely, if R2 can serve a drink with the arm he should be able to push buttons on a touch screen with it.

Wrong. The two require totally different ranges and types of motion. Serving a drink only requires that the arm be high enough to be above the table surface and have two grasping appendages which open and close. Manipulating a computer touch-screen requires that appendage to be able to move at least up/down and side to side over a wider range (about 6 in/ 15 cm in any direction).

Now, back on-topic:
R2 would first have to learn the Borg language, and while I grant that R2 is quite capable with conventional computers that he can communicate with using binary, he doesn't have that option. Unless xenolinguistics happens to be another of his specialties, he's stuck with an alien language that can't be broken simply by trying to decrypt it (go ahead, try "decrypting" a language like Chinese into English. Your not going to be able to because to do so, your assuming the same properties for each language.) And that's all assuming that R2's photoreceptors are placed high enough to be able to read the console, otherwise R2 is at best pushing random buttons.

For a direct hook up, he has his standard plug which I agree will be of little use. But in Cloud City in ESB and the bunker at RotJ, R2 used a claw like extension to access computers showing a versitility in accessing various forms of computers as would be needed in a computer specialist in the SW universe.

On a side note; R2 could also access through the USB like cable shown in ANH but that would require help. So its out.

As for subspace. It is mentioned in some of the EU so it is a know phenomenom in the SW universe.

Even with very similar communications tech, other ST powers are unable to recieve Borg subspace communications without a drone or former drone on hand to say it out loud for them.

[Knife]

So R2 has the capability to tap into conventional electronics, from your multiple posts above. Any idea on how that is going to help him tap into optical signals (ODN stands for Optical Data Network), which are the basis for ST computers?

If he splices right into the system, I have no idea. It becomes a programing deal with which he can interpert what the hell the data says. If he access the computer terminal he'll have a better chance since the data has to be displayed as some thing (languge, numbers/symbols).

Wrong. The two require totally different ranges and types of motion. Serving a drink only requires that the arm be high enough to be above the table surface and have two grasping appendages which open and close. Manipulating a computer touch-screen requires that appendage to be able to move at least up/down and side to side over a wider range (about 6 in/ 15 cm in any direction).

Yeah, ok. ST touch screen operations look a hell of alot like typing when seen on screen. That is not a wide range of movment, though some what complicated for today's robots. But hell, what says R2 can't one finger type?

Some one here (Ender I think) already mentioned R2 computing capacity. Weather or not its enough to decode or interpert the data, I don't know. I'm far from an expert on such matters. All I'm arguing is that the R2 unit can access the computers via various methods. However, seeing as how the borg computer tech has to run and coordinate various cultures tech, it has to be adaptable and easy to use.

[Darth Wong]

This whole debate is pointless. The original post clearly specifies that R2D2 already has at least a rudimentary knowledge of the Borg communications protocol, and can tap into it.

a single Astromech droid has found it's way onto a borg cube, being too small and too few numbers to be considered a threat or even enterrogated by the collective the R2 unit has had no trouble leeching power for it's suplies off the cube's central powersource. It then realizes that the borg are heading for it's owner's home. Can the little astromech stop the cube in time without alerting the borg?

Please read the OP, folks. R2D2 is not only sneaking around and stealing power, but he has determined the cube's location and heading. Tell me how the fuck he's accomplished all of this without being able to hack the cube.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

This whole debate is pointless. The original post clearly specifies that R2D2 already has at least a rudimentary knowledge of the Borg communications protocol, and can tap into it.

a single Astromech droid has found it's way onto a borg cube, being too small and too few numbers to be considered a threat or even enterrogated by the collective the R2 unit has had no trouble leeching power for it's suplies off the cube's central powersource. It then realizes that the borg are heading for it's owner's home. Can the little astromech stop the cube in time without alerting the borg?

Please read the OP, folks. R2D2 is not only sneaking around and stealing power, but he has determined the cube's location and heading. Tell me how the fuck he's accomplished all of this without being able to hack the cube.

The discussion has evolved from that into "can he hack the cube?" Simple as. If he can't, then the OP is moot.

[Sarevok]

Given enough time R2 could hack any Trek computer.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

Given enough time R2 could hack any Trek computer.

This obvious fanboyism coming from someone who said (in the Skynet Vs. Empire thread), and I quote...

Speaking from my experience as a programmer hacking a computer system is virtualy impossible without extensive knowledge of the target system. Real world hacking requires excellent knowledge on the targeted computer sytem and exploiting a KNOWN weakness in the system.

...and not to mention that R2 and the Borg come from different galaxies on completely different levels of technology.

[Darth Wong]

The discussion has evolved from that into "can he hack the cube?" Simple as. If he can't, then the OP is moot.

If he can't, then he wouldn't even know that he NEEDS to hack the computer in the first place. Therefore, the only way he could possibly know the cube's location is that he must have a subspace transceiver built into him, and is picking up enough SW comm traffic that he could triangulate and figure it out.

If that's the case, then he could still stop the cube, and quite easily, by simply calling for help.

Either way, R2 can stop the cube.

[Lancer]

So R2 has the capability to tap into conventional electronics, from your multiple posts above. Any idea on how that is going to help him tap into optical signals (ODN stands for Optical Data Network), which are the basis for ST computers?

If he splices right into the system, I have no idea. It becomes a programing deal with which he can interpert what the hell the data says. If he access the computer terminal he'll have a better chance since the data has to be displayed as some thing (languge, numbers/symbols).

Again, just being able to access the terminal doesn't automatically mean that he can use it. Being able to hack into a computer terminal by using binary, which R2 does in the SW universe, is completely different from having to translate a totally new language that can't simply be "decrypted" into another language that R2 understands. Unless R2 either already knows Borg, or R2 is equipped with a universal translator/xenolingusitics suite, he won't be able to understand the Borg language.

Wrong. The two require totally different ranges and types of motion. Serving a drink only requires that the arm be high enough to be above the table surface and have two grasping appendages which open and close. Manipulating a computer touch-screen requires that appendage to be able to move at least up/down and side to side over a wider range (about 6 in/ 15 cm in any direction).

Yeah, ok. ST touch screen operations look a hell of alot like typing when seen on screen. That is not a wide range of movment, though some what complicated for today's robots. But hell, what says R2 can't one finger type?

Read the whole thing. Serving a drink != Touch-screen interaction capability wasn't my argument, it was just my explaining how your statement that if R2 can serve a drink, then he must be able to manipulate a touch-screen that is placed higher than his field of vision is wrong.

Some one here (Ender I think) already mentioned R2 computing capacity. Weather or not its enough to decode or interpert the data, I don't know. I'm far from an expert on such matters. All I'm arguing is that the R2 unit can access the computers via various methods. However, seeing as how the borg computer tech has to run and coordinate various cultures tech, it has to be adaptable and easy to use.

No it does not. Borg tech simply forces other technologies to run to borg standards. Again, the Borg don't care if their terminals are impossible for a random sentient being to use, as long as the interface is standardized so that any drone can use it, it's good. Take a look at Ent: Regeneration. The Borg-assimilated consoles onboard the Ent weren't "adaptable and easy to use." Commander Tucker had to physically replace the assimilated consoles to be able to restore Ent's default interface.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

If he can't, then he wouldn't even know that he NEEDS to hack the computer in the first place. Therefore, the only way he could possibly know the cube's location is that he must have a subspace transceiver built into him, and is picking up enough SW comm traffic that he could triangulate and figure it out.

I was under the impression that he needs to stop this vessel. Either by shutting it down or destroying it. Either way, he would need to access its computer and activate a shutdown or self destruct system. There has been no reasonable proof that R2 can even access the Borg systems, especially as we've only seen it done through a drone as proxy.

If that's the case, then he could still stop the cube, and quite easily, by simply calling for help.

Either way, R2 can stop the cube.

Oh, I must be mistaken again. I thought it was An Astromech Droid (in this case R2) Vs. Borg Cube, not An Astromech Droid, It's Homeworld's Defense Force, And Anyone Else In Comm Range Vs. Borg Cube.

[Darth Wong]

I was under the impression that he needs to stop this vessel. Either by shutting it down or destroying it. Either way, he would need to access its computer and activate a shutdown or self destruct system. There has been no reasonable proof that R2 can even access the Borg systems, especially as we've only seen it done through a drone as proxy.

Then how the fuck is he supposed to know where the vessel is, hence the fact that he needs to stop it before it reaches its destination, unless he has a subspace transceiver built into him?

If that's the case, then he could still stop the cube, and quite easily, by simply calling for help.

Either way, R2 can stop the cube.

Oh, I must be mistaken again. I thought it was An Astromech Droid (in this case R2) Vs. Borg Cube, not An Astromech Droid, It's Homeworld's Defense Force, And Anyone Else In Comm Range Vs. Borg Cube.

Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to a fucking idiot who didn't realize that if R2 can contact any defense ship in the area, he effectively stops the cube because that ship will wipe out the Cube.

[YT300000]

at which point he discovers that his Unix operating system is not compatible with Windows Borg edition.

More likely the Borg are an alternate universe version of Microsoft, that would explain the assimilation deal.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

There's no need to be rude, fuckhead, so let's take this one step at a time...

I was under the impression that he needs to stop this vessel. Either by shutting it down or destroying it. Either way, he would need to access its computer and activate a shutdown or self destruct system. There has been no reasonable proof that R2 can even access the Borg systems, especially as we've only seen it done through a drone as proxy.

Then how the fuck is he supposed to know where the vessel is, hence the fact that he needs to stop it before it reaches its destination, unless he has a subspace transceiver built into him?

The opening post clearly states...

a single Astromech droid has found it's way onto a borg cube

...which, as I assumed, that he is already on the cube. Try fucking reading it before you call me things like an idiot.

If that's the case, then he could still stop the cube, and quite easily, by simply calling for help.

Either way, R2 can stop the cube.

Oh, I must be mistaken again. I thought it was An Astromech Droid (in this case R2) Vs. Borg Cube, not An Astromech Droid, It's Homeworld's Defense Force, And Anyone Else In Comm Range Vs. Borg Cube.

Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to a fucking idiot who didn't realize that if R2 can contact any defense ship in the area, he effectively stops the cube because that ship will wipe out the Cube.

Again, the post was entitled An Astromech Droid Vs. Cube, if you are bringing in this defense ships then you might as well conceed that an Astromech Droid can not stop a Borg Cube, which was obvious anyway.

Edit: Some formatting problems, don't drink and post kids.

[Knife]

No it does not. Borg tech simply forces other technologies to run to borg standards. Again, the Borg don't care if their terminals are impossible for a random sentient being to use, as long as the interface is standardized so that any drone can use it, it's good. Take a look at Ent: Regeneration. The Borg-assimilated consoles onboard the Ent weren't "adaptable and easy to use." Commander Tucker had to physically replace the assimilated consoles to be able to restore Ent's default interface.

You know, I get tired of this super uber Borg crap. "We are the Borg, we will add you people and tech to our own." They adapt a shit load of cultures into their own including tech. That was the basis of the Borg and the basis for the super uber adaptation powers that can defeat everything in Trek.

Either they adapt shit to them and use that adaptability to their advantage when they attack others or they don't. You can't have it both ways. If their systems are adapted to incorperate various cultures technology, then by definition, those systems are highly adaptable. Which means that there has to be a certain leeway in their system to make it compatable with various forms of technology.

[Lancer]

No it does not. Borg tech simply forces other technologies to run to borg standards. Again, the Borg don't care if their terminals are impossible for a random sentient being to use, as long as the interface is standardized so that any drone can use it, it's good. Take a look at Ent: Regeneration. The Borg-assimilated consoles onboard the Ent weren't "adaptable and easy to use." Commander Tucker had to physically replace the assimilated consoles to be able to restore Ent's default interface.

You know, I get tired of this super uber Borg crap. "We are the Borg, we will add you people and tech to our own." They adapt a shit load of cultures into their own including tech. That was the basis of the Borg and the basis for the super uber adaptation powers that can defeat everything in Trek.

Either they adapt shit to them and use that adaptability to their advantage when they attack others or they don't. You can't have it both ways. If their systems are adapted to incorperate various cultures technology, then by definition, those systems are highly adaptable. Which means that there has to be a certain leeway in their system to make it compatable with various forms of technology.

They analyize the technology, rebuild it to be compatible with Borg standards, and then integrate it into their own. You don't see assimilated vessels retaining the original look and feel that they were built with. My perfect case in point, which I have been throwing at you for the past few days is Ent: Regeneration. When the drones assimilated the computer consoles on Ent, the entire console was re-built to borg standards. It didn't keep the original Ent console design, nor did it at any point demonstrate the ability to revert back to the basic Ent console on it's own. In fact, the affected consoles had to be physically replaced by Trip to restore the original configurations, as was established in diaolouge in the episode.

The "leeway" that you describe doesn't exist. The borg don't literally integrate new technology directly into their own. Why do you think they have to "assimilate" new technology before they can use it? Why not simply scan a new piece of tech, and integrate it into the collective as-is if borg tech is as adaptable as you claim?

[Robert Walper]

There's no need to be rude, fuckhead, so let's take this one step at a time...

Given you're drunk as per your explanation at the end of your post, perhaps this is why you are tempting the infamous "Imperial Smackdown" from Lord Wong.

I was under the impression that he needs to stop this vessel. Either by shutting it down or destroying it. Either way, he would need to access its computer and activate a shutdown or self destruct system. There has been no reasonable proof that R2 can even access the Borg systems, especially as we've only seen it done through a drone as proxy.

Then how the fuck is he supposed to know where the vessel is, hence the fact that he needs to stop it before it reaches its destination, unless he has a subspace transceiver built into him?

The opening post clearly states...

a single Astromech droid has found it's way onto a borg cube

...which, as I assumed, that he is already on the cube. Try fucking reading it before you call me things like an idiot.

Oh, I must be mistaken again. I thought it was An Astromech Droid (in this case R2) Vs. Borg Cube, not An Astromech Droid, It's Homeworld's Defense Force, And Anyone Else In Comm Range Vs. Borg Cube.

Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to a fucking idiot who didn't realize that if R2 can contact any defense ship in the area, he effectively stops the cube because that ship will wipe out the Cube.

Again, the post was entitled An Astromech Droid Vs. Cube, if you are bringing in this defense ships then you might as well conceed that an Astromech Droid can not stop a Borg Cube, which was obvious anyway.

I suppose it's a matter of interpretation. I personally wouldn't call R2 calling for help and getting a Imperial warship(or TIE fighter as some might submit only needed) to intercept and destroy said cube as the R2 unit itself stopping the cube. This would be like me pointing at a speeding car and yelling at the nearest cop to chase him down, and once captured, claiming "I" stopped the speeder.

Since the OP didn't specify lack of other resources the R2 unit could call upon(ie: Imperial ship), I suppose there's no problem in proposing their involvement. But I would tend to agree that is somewhat of a concession that the R2 unit needs an additonal party to intervene, which means the R2 unit must not be able to accomplish the goal by itself. Otherwise, why bring up other parties if the R2 unit alone is all that is needed? In that light, you're interpretation of the conflict with the thread title would seem to be correct.

...

*fearfully glances in Wong's direction*