The Plantaget Empire Lives!

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-12-30 01:01am

Let us say that Richard the Lionhearted lived, John Lackland never came to power, and thus the Commise never occured and the Plantaget empire continued to be ruled from Angers, and kept ahold of all its English and French possessions.

How is history affected?

Super-Gagme · Post by **Super-Gagme** » 2003-12-30 01:09am

Mt. Dew is never invented.

Andrew J. · Post by **Andrew J.** » 2003-12-30 10:37am

I have no idea, but I do know it's spelled "Plantagenet."

Brother-Captain Gaius · Post by **Brother-Captain Gaius** » 2003-12-30 12:37pm

Super-Gagme wrote:Mt. Dew is never invented.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Soontir C'boath · Post by **Soontir C'boath** » 2003-12-30 12:40pm

JediNeophyte wrote:
Super-Gagme wrote:Mt. Dew is never invented.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

What do you mean no? It's vile and leaves an awful aftertaste!~Jason

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2003-12-30 02:18pm

HemlockGrey wrote:Let us say that Richard the Lionhearted lived, John Lackland never came to power, and thus the Commise never occured and the Plantaget empire continued to be ruled from Angers, and kept ahold of all its English and French possessions.

How is history affected?

I appreciate the depth of background information. Really I do.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-12-30 02:38pm

Um... I suppose the Plantagenets would marry into the Capet line and end up with a solid claim on the Crown of France when the Capetians expire. With most of France under their control, they would either cow the other nobles into submission or rapidly crush them if they resisted. So, from the 14th century onward, you have the United Kingdom of England and France.

Perhaps...

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-12-30 02:39pm

Falkenhayn wrote:I appreciate the depth of background information. Really I do.

He was probably assuming you knew something about medieval Anglo-French relations.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 02:55pm

Which is a subject every patriotic American is deeply concerned and knowledgeable about

Probably would have resulted in much less fighting between Britain and France, what with intermarriage and Capetians dying off eventually, possibly resulting in joint colonization of North America. Quebec wouldn't have happened, since the French wouldn't have concentrated so much, and without the French to worry about the English may have done better in the Revolutionary War.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-12-30 03:03pm

I think it would be interesting simply to see what happened in its relations with the Church. After all, the Plantagents were not exactly known for respecting Papal authority, and a powerful Plantagent empire could possibly limit the impact the Pope would have in future centuries.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-12-30 03:13pm

HemlockGrey wrote:I think it would be interesting simply to see what happened in its relations with the Church. After all, the Plantagents were not exactly known for respecting Papal authority, and a powerful Plantagent empire could possibly limit the impact the Pope would have in future centuries.

The influence of the pope in France would certainly be weakened. The effect of the reformation might be interesting: Would an England-France empire which has strenuously resisted papal authority for centuries go protestant? If so, what effect would this have on the 30 years war?

In an alternate history scenario like this, things become far too murky to predict almost from the first year after the timeline changes.

Lord Woodlouse · Post by **Lord Woodlouse** » 2003-12-30 03:21pm

My preference for the Plantagenets to remain in control is for Richard III to beat that slimey shit, Henry VII, into the ground.

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2003-12-30 03:31pm

The Aliens wrote:Probably would have resulted in much less fighting between Britain and France, what with intermarriage and Capetians dying off eventually, possibly resulting in joint colonization of North America. Quebec wouldn't have happened, since the French wouldn't have concentrated so much, and without the French to worry about the English may have done better in the Revolutionary War.

I was wondering about this myself. Would colonization be sped up, or would the empire of England and France get more involved in all the European wars (religious and territorial), delaying colonization?

I don't know much in detail about all the European wars during that time period, so I don't know how it could change all the wars between England, France, Spain, Holland, the Italian City-States, and so on.

Pablo Sanchez · Post by **Pablo Sanchez** » 2003-12-30 03:39pm

Mayabird wrote:I don't know much in detail about all the European wars during that time period, so I don't know how it could change all the wars between England, France, Spain, Holland, the Italian City-States, and so on.

The King of England and France would definitely be the most powerful monarch in Europe by a simply huge margin. If he wants to assert French claims on Italy, there is very little that anyone can do to stop him. It would take a major coalition of German principalities, Spain, and Austria to give them pause.

The Aliens · Post by **The Aliens** » 2003-12-30 04:09pm

Well, without having to worry about the rest of Europe, I'd think that colonization would speed up. Up until the Holy Roman Empire, there was no cohesive power in Europe, and so westward expansion could happen without the threats of constant war hanging over them.

OTOH, the simple fact that they would be able to exert claims over much of Europe would remove the immediate needs for mroe resources. If they need more land, they would be able to expand into Germany (which, IIRC was a bunh of smaller states) or Italy.

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The Plantaget Empire Lives!

The Plantaget Empire Lives!

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