Astromech Driod vs. Cube

[Knife]

They analyize the technology, rebuild it to be compatible with Borg standards, and then integrate it into their own. You don't see assimilated vessels retaining the original look and feel that they were built with. My perfect case in point, which I have been throwing at you for the past few days is Ent: Regeneration. When the drones assimilated the computer consoles on Ent, the entire console was re-built to borg standards. It didn't keep the original Ent console design, nor did it at any point demonstrate the ability to revert back to the basic Ent console on it's own. In fact, the affected consoles had to be physically replaced by Trip to restore the original configurations, as was established in diaolouge in the episode.

I stopped watching Ent in the begaining of the second season. So I can't comment of the episode you speak of extensively. However, if the Borg 'assimulated' the consol and then the Borgized consol rewrote itself, then the 'assimulation' has to be pretty fucking flexable to 'assimulate' consols, people, alien tech, and all the other shit Borg 'assimulate'.

Get it, its highly adaptable tech so it can 'assimilate' things. It has to have a shit load of leeway to be able to affect a WIDE range of equipment.

The "leeway" that you describe doesn't exist. The borg don't literally integrate new technology directly into their own. Why do you think they have to "assimilate" new technology before they can use it? Why not simply scan a new piece of tech, and integrate it into the collective as-is if borg tech is as adaptable as you claim?

Bull shit. They take people and ships and add Borg tech to the host. Ref: all the people who were 'assimilated' and the Enterprise E which was being 'assimilated' in STFC as well as, and appearently since you brought it up, the Enterprise in ST Enterprise.

The Borg either assimulate and adapt or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

[Lancer]

They analyize the technology, rebuild it to be compatible with Borg standards, and then integrate it into their own. You don't see assimilated vessels retaining the original look and feel that they were built with. My perfect case in point, which I have been throwing at you for the past few days is Ent: Regeneration. When the drones assimilated the computer consoles on Ent, the entire console was re-built to borg standards. It didn't keep the original Ent console design, nor did it at any point demonstrate the ability to revert back to the basic Ent console on it's own. In fact, the affected consoles had to be physically replaced by Trip to restore the original configurations, as was established in diaolouge in the episode.

I stopped watching Ent in the begaining of the second season. So I can't comment of the episode you speak of extensively. However, if the Borg 'assimulated' the consol and then the Borgized consol rewrote itself, then the 'assimulation' has to be pretty fucking flexable to 'assimulate' consols, people, alien tech, and all the other shit Borg 'assimulate'.

Get it, its highly adaptable tech so it can 'assimilate' things. It has to have a shit load of leeway to be able to affect a WIDE range of equipment.

The nanoprobes do the assimilating. The nanoprobes rebuild the technology to be compatible with Borg technology. The nanoprobes update the rest of Borg technology to incorporate the assimilated tech.

It would be far more efficent to take one example of alien technology, rebuild it to meet your standards, and incorporate it into your own technology than it would to modify all of your technology to be compatable with that one piece of tech. That is precisely what the Borg do when they assimilate technology. The assimilation approach does mean that Borg technology is adaptable, but simply because it can easily incorporate new components. It's not "Oh, the Borg would automatically make a dataport for R2 once they realize he's trying to hack into the cube with his dataprobe".

The "leeway" that you describe doesn't exist. The borg don't literally integrate new technology directly into their own. Why do you think they have to "assimilate" new technology before they can use it? Why not simply scan a new piece of tech, and integrate it into the collective as-is if borg tech is as adaptable as you claim?

Bull shit. They take people and ships and add Borg tech to the host. Ref: all the people who were 'assimilated' and the Enterprise E which was being 'assimilated' in STFC as well as, and appearently since you brought it up, the Enterprise in ST Enterprise.

See above

[The Borg either assimulate and adapt or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

Again, they assimilate and adapt, but not in the manner that you claim they do. You claim that the Borg modify their own tech to be compatible with new, alien standards every time they encounter anything. This is contradicted by the fact that the Borg have to assimilate new technology in order to include it as their own. If they did modify their own tech to be compatable instead of modifying the alien tech, there would be no need to assimilate things in the first place, the borg could simply scan it and use it right away.

[Darth Wong]

There's no need to be rude, fuckhead,

Oh I'm sorry asshole, I suppose your smart-ass mockery of my position was part of your campaign to make this conversation as civilized as possible. Why don't you take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your well-greased self-righteous ass, you fucking idiot?

so let's take this one step at a time...

Then how the fuck is he supposed to know where the vessel is, hence the fact that he needs to stop it before it reaches its destination, unless he has a subspace transceiver built into him?

The opening post clearly states...

a single Astromech droid has found it's way onto a borg cube

...which, as I assumed, that he is already on the cube. Try fucking reading it before you call me things like an idiot.

Perhaps if you were not an idiot, you would realize that this does not have anything whatsoever to do with my point. How is R2 supposed to know the cube's location and heading without being able to either hack the cube or communicate with outside sources, asshole? In case you're still too fucking stupid to get it ...

the R2 unit has had no trouble leeching power for it's suplies off the cube's central powersource. It then realizes that the borg are heading for it's owner's home

R2 doesn't realize the cube's heading until after he's already on the cube. Get it now? Or would you like me to spell it out with crayon for you, dumb-ass?

Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to a fucking idiot who didn't realize that if R2 can contact any defense ship in the area, he effectively stops the cube because that ship will wipe out the Cube.

Again, the post was entitled An Astromech Droid Vs. Cube, if you are bringing in this defense ships then you might as well conceed that an Astromech Droid can not stop a Borg Cube, which was obvious anyway.

Oh I see, so if an army officer calls in artillery on an enemy position, he did not stop the enemy. Right. Get back to me when you grow a brain, moron.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

There's no need to be rude, fuckhead,

Oh I'm sorry asshole, I suppose your smart-ass mockery of my position was part of your campaign to make this conversation as civilized as possible. Why don't you take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your well-greased self-righteous ass, you fucking idiot?

Smart-ass mockery of your position? Are you imagining things? Either way, the bad language was offensive at first, but now it's just funny.

so let's take this one step at a time...

Then how the fuck is he supposed to know where the vessel is, hence the fact that he needs to stop it before it reaches its destination, unless he has a subspace transceiver built into him?

The opening post clearly states...

a single Astromech droid has found it's way onto a borg cube

...which, as I assumed, that he is already on the cube. Try fucking reading it before you call me things like an idiot.

Perhaps if you were not an idiot, you would realize that this does not have anything whatsoever to do with my point. How is R2 supposed to know the cube's location and heading without being able to either hack the cube or communicate with outside sources, asshole? In case you're still too fucking stupid to get it ...

I didn't say that R2 didn't use outside sources to find out the cubes location and heading, I simply said that it doesn't prove he hacked the fucking cube. Even inferior-than-whatver ST sensors can provide the location and speed of an object without hacking it (unless, of course, it's inside some anomaly of the week).

the R2 unit has had no trouble leeching power for it's suplies off the cube's central powersource. It then realizes that the borg are heading for it's owner's home

R2 doesn't realize the cube's heading until after he's already on the cube. Get it now? Or would you like me to spell it out with crayon for you, dumb-ass?

This is where I meant the opening post could be flawed. Before we determine wether R2 can stop the Borg cube, we must first determine wether R2 can actually access its systems, doing otherwise would be huge leap in logic. Prove that R2 can access the systems of the Borg cube, and I'll gladly conceed the point, but as we've only seen this done through a drone proxy, I find it highly unlikely that R2 could do such a thing.

Oh, I didn't realize I was talking to a fucking idiot who didn't realize that if R2 can contact any defense ship in the area, he effectively stops the cube because that ship will wipe out the Cube.

Again, the post was entitled An Astromech Droid Vs. Cube, if you are bringing in this defense ships then you might as well conceed that an Astromech Droid can not stop a Borg Cube, which was obvious anyway.

Oh I see, so if an army officer calls in artillery on an enemy position, he did not stop the enemy. Right. Get back to me when you grow a brain, moron.

The sheer number of times I've seen people bitch about bringing in third parties just makes me laugh at your argument here. As Walper agreed with me, the topic is about R2 (or, to be precise an Astromech droid) stopping a cube, not R2 and whatever defense force he can hail. I think that bringing in such a ship/fleet should be considered a concession that R2 can not do it on his own.

Wow, 5am, still pissed, way more pissed than earlier, and I didn't butcher the formatting.

[Embracer Of Darkness]

There's no need to be rude, fuckhead, so let's take this one step at a time...

Given you're drunk as per your explanation at the end of your post, perhaps this is why you are tempting the infamous "Imperial Smackdown" from Lord Wong.

I'll gladly submit to one of these damn "Imperial smackdowns" if I'm wrong, I'm not a person who'll act like a dick if he's wrong. I'd just like to see how R2 would successfully hack a Borg cube, because I don't believe it's possible for reasons I, and others, have already mentioned.

[Darth Wong]

Smart-ass mockery of your position? Are you imagining things? Either way, the bad language was offensive at first, but now it's just funny.

Whatever. I guess you just figure that if you post in an insulting manner but don't use swear words, it's OK

Perhaps if you were not an idiot, you would realize that this does not have anything whatsoever to do with my point. How is R2 supposed to know the cube's location and heading without being able to either hack the cube or communicate with outside sources, asshole? In case you're still too fucking stupid to get it ...

I didn't say that R2 didn't use outside sources to find out the cubes location and heading, I simply said that it doesn't prove he hacked the fucking cube.

Then he must have a long-range subspace transceiver on him, which would be quite a trick since no such thing is ever referenced anywhere.

Even inferior-than-whatver ST sensors can provide the location and speed of an object without hacking it (unless, of course, it's inside some anomaly of the week).

He is INSIDE THE CUBE, dumb-ass! How is he supposed to tell where the cube is going? Sensors? The only external sensors are the cube's sensors, unless you're going to tell me he has sensors in his body which can do astronavigation with no support systems while stuck inside an alien spaceship. Your version of R2 grows more amazing by the minute.

This is where I meant the opening post could be flawed. Before we determine wether R2 can stop the Borg cube, we must first determine wether R2 can actually access its systems, doing otherwise would be huge leap in logic. Prove that R2 can access the systems of the Borg cube, and I'll gladly conceed the point, but as we've only seen this done through a drone proxy, I find it highly unlikely that R2 could do such a thing.

So? The whole scenario is obviously contrived, since R2 would not find himself mysteriously aboard a cube in the first place! You are just spewing hot air. If you don't want to talk about the scenario, then don't. Instead, you are trying to rewrite it.

Oh I see, so if an army officer calls in artillery on an enemy position, he did not stop the enemy. Right. Get back to me when you grow a brain, moron.

The sheer number of times I've seen people bitch about bringing in third parties just makes me laugh at your argument here.

Oh, I see. So after shitting on the rule about addressing the scenario and respecting the original post in some way, you suddenly decide that you're actually a stickler for details in those rules

Make up your mind; are you playing loose with the rules, or not? If you want to play tight with the rules, accept that R2 has obviously learned enough to access the cube's network somehow, and there a number of ways in which this might have become possible. For all you know, the SW galaxy has had extensive experience with the Borg by the time this scenario takes place. I don't recall seeing "no one in the SW galaxy has ever encountered a cube before" as one of the stipulations of the OP.

You are looking for a backdoor out of a thread which was obviously constructed in order to ask whether R2 could hack a borg cube once he already had access to it, and then you get angry when I decide that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, by constructing a similar backdoor. What is your problem?

[Darth Wong]

I can't believe I'm actually arguing with a person who thinks that an R2 unit can astronavigate on its own while stuck inside an alien spaceship with no means of support or communication with the outside world

[Darth Wong]

I'll gladly submit to one of these damn "Imperial smackdowns" if I'm wrong, I'm not a person who'll act like a dick if he's wrong.

Too late for that, isn't it? Or is "act like a dick" your code-phrase for "insult someone", while deception is A-OK?

I'd just like to see how R2 would successfully hack a Borg cube, because I don't believe it's possible for reasons I, and others, have already mentioned.

Yes, because you chose to ignore the part of the OP which basically showed that he must have the ability to access their network. Instead of "can R2 hack a Borg cube", you tried to make the debate into "can R2 access a Borg cube", and you obviously hoped no one would notice

[Lancer]

I'll gladly submit to one of these damn "Imperial smackdowns" if I'm wrong, I'm not a person who'll act like a dick if he's wrong.

Too late for that, isn't it? Or is "act like a dick" your code-phrase for "insult someone", while deception is A-OK?

I'd just like to see how R2 would successfully hack a Borg cube, because I don't believe it's possible for reasons I, and others, have already mentioned.

Yes, because you chose to ignore the part of the OP which basically showed that he must have the ability to access their network. Instead of "can R2 hack a Borg cube", you tried to make the debate into "can R2 access a Borg cube", and you obviously hoped no one would notice

There are other ways to obey the OP. You could have something like Q explain it out to R2 or any other astromech, show him the cube and it's heading, then throw the driod onto the cube. Thus, R2 would know that the Cube is headed somewhere important and that he's the only thing on the cube that's going to try to stop it.

[Robert Walper]

There are other ways to obey the OP.

Vague OPs are subject to personal interpretation, thus conflict can easily issue.

You could have something like Q explain it out to R2 or any other astromech, show him the cube and it's heading, then throw the driod onto the cube. Thus, R2 would know that the Cube is headed somewhere important and that he's the only thing on the cube that's going to try to stop it.

Personally, I think OPs should be a little bit more clear and precise in matchups like this. Specifying R2 alone, without calling for help against aid cube would be handy, or speicifying help is allowed, etc.

Additionally, OPs can be a little unfair when they tend to start off scenarios favoring one party, while crippling the other. For example, the current OP gave R2 the advantage of being completely ignored, despite stealing power(which should be detected) and implying R2 had used Borg systems to identify current location and destination of said cube without being detected in any way. In other words, the R2 unit had already hacked into the cube(ignoring compatibility and security issues) and was merely challenged to find a way to stop said cube.

This strikes me as a bit silly, since in STTNG "Best of Both Worlds" we saw how quickly the Borg reacted to an attempt to hack into their systems...an attack that incidently failed until a Borg spelled it out on how and where to proceed in such an attack.

[Darth Wong]

There are other ways to obey the OP.

Vague OPs are subject to personal interpretation, thus conflict can easily issue.

If Q decides to artificially create this situation, then Q can also magically give R2 the knowledge necessary to access the Borg network. The OP was designed to ask if R2 is capable of hacking the board network; your attempts to change the subject are pretty fucking obvious.

Personally, I think OPs should be a little bit more clear and precise in matchups like this. Specifying R2 alone, without calling for help against aid cube would be handy, or speicifying help is allowed, etc.

Personally, I think that people should just be more consistent. If we're going to play fast and loose with the terms of the OP, then we should allow the other side to do it as well (as opposed to Embracer of Bullshit's behaviour, where he gets to massively alter the scenario while screaming bloody murder if I let R2 call for backup).

Additionally, OPs can be a little unfair when they tend to start off scenarios favoring one party, while crippling the other. For example, the current OP gave R2 the advantage of being completely ignored, despite stealing power(which should be detected) and implying R2 had used Borg systems to identify current location and destination of said cube without being detected in any way. In other words, the R2 unit had already hacked into the cube(ignoring compatibility and security issues) and was merely challenged to find a way to stop said cube.

Oh, for fuck's sake. The scenario is already totally unfair to the SW side by stranding him alone in a cube, thus placing massive odds against him. But since a "fair" scenario would simply have a SW ship against a cube, and the cube would be swiftly annihilated, that's not the point here. Don't whine about fairness when we have a situation where an R2 unit has somehow gotten itself onto a cube via magic. You cannot concoct a reasonable scenario where an R2 unit would get itself onto a Borg cube without having come from some ship which would have either annihilated the cube or called for help.

This strikes me as a bit silly, since in STTNG "Best of Both Worlds" we saw how quickly the Borg reacted to an attempt to hack into their systems...an attack that incidently failed until a Borg spelled it out on how and where to proceed in such an attack.

How quickly did they react? They couldn't even cut off the network intrusion, and they had no real recourse except to change course and attempt to destroy the hacker's ship.

[tempest]

Modern day bit encryption, say, 128 megabit or more can still take the most advanced supercomputers of today years to crack. And encryption routines can be written on slow, obselete computers if necessary.

I don't see why it's considered unrealistic or silly that Data's ability to encrpt the E-E's computer controls was so effective.

Data is a computer. More importantly, a sentient computer. As a computer capable of storing information, he should have the ability to delete said information from his own memory. Thus, the Borg would be unable to extract any information from him faster than he could destroy it. Even the Borg's nanotechnology assimilation techique takes several minutes to assimilate technology and lifeform examples.

128 MEGABIT encryption?
currently 128 BIT is pretty stout.

2^128,000,000 is a pretty dang big number.
Even if you used all the droids in the ST universe it might take a little longer than the heat death of the universe to decrypy brute force.
mabey a google times or so if R2 is much much faster than the lower limit.

[Ghost Rider]

Naughty Thread Necromancy.