The A-wing and the Odyssey

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-10-09 12:47pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Actually they didn't. The bugs that rammed the main section (I think your talking about the engineering section, which has the triangle like structure on top) never went all the way through, like the bugs that rammed the warp nacell pylons.

I watched it several times to be sure.
Watch it again. Get the divx codec and click here. The Klingon ship is torn in half, and when we last see the JH bug, it hasn't even lost much speed, which indicates truly pathetic impact resistance on the part of the Klingon ship's hull.

{EDIT: this is why the Odyssey was LUCKY that the JH bug blew up, either due to its own failure or an explosion from the nav deflector, which is "charged with antiprotons; the explosion scattered the debris and kept it from plowing through the hull, although the Odyssey's well-known defective design made it blow up anyway).

I have the full scene and the Vor'Cha is rammed twice. The first bug is the one that seperates the neck of the Vor'Cha and cuts the ship in half to the starboard side of the triangle shaped module. Then the second bug hits said module directly and does NOT go all the way through it.

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2002-10-09 01:33pm

Kamakazie Sith wrote: I have the full scene and the Vor'Cha is rammed twice. The first bug is the one that seperates the neck of the Vor'Cha and cuts the ship in half to the starboard side of the triangle shaped module. Then the second bug hits said module directly and does NOT go all the way through it.

I have watched the scene in question. Here is the whole thing plus some. (the actual scene is at the end of the clip, sorry about the unneedidly long download) It is somewhat difficult to tell because of the shallow impact angle, but it does appear that the bug impacts the triangle thing and goes straight through and out the engine area.

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2002-10-09 01:58pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: I have the full scene and the Vor'Cha is rammed twice. The first bug is the one that seperates the neck of the Vor'Cha and cuts the ship in half to the starboard side of the triangle shaped module. Then the second bug hits said module directly and does NOT go all the way through it.
I have watched the scene in question. Here is the whole thing plus some. (the actual scene is at the end of the clip, sorry about the unneedidly long download) It is somewhat difficult to tell because of the shallow impact angle, but it does appear that the bug impacts the triangle thing and goes straight through and out the engine area.

Are you sure? How many bugs do you see hit that Vor'Cha in that clip? I have the original on file from the DS9 episode "Tears of the Prophets" and one bug does go through the Vor'Cha but to the right of the module. A second bug does hit the module but does not go through...you can see this as it the Vor'Cha starts to rotate.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-09 02:23pm

Wicked Pilot wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: I have the full scene and the Vor'Cha is rammed twice. The first bug is the one that seperates the neck of the Vor'Cha and cuts the ship in half to the starboard side of the triangle shaped module. Then the second bug hits said module directly and does NOT go all the way through it.
I have watched the scene in question. Here is the whole thing plus some. (the actual scene is at the end of the clip, sorry about the unneedidly long download) It is somewhat difficult to tell because of the shallow impact angle, but it does appear that the bug impacts the triangle thing and goes straight through and out the engine area.

The second Bug does impact and indeed part of it continues past the Vorcha, however that is just the top Nacelle that wasn't completely destroyed in the ramming. It is not the entire Attack Ship that survives the impact but rather a single warp engine.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-09 05:18pm

Alyeska wrote: The second Bug does impact and indeed part of it continues past the Vorcha, however that is just the top Nacelle that wasn't completely destroyed in the ramming. It is not the entire Attack Ship that survives the impact but rather a single warp engine.

So, basically, you acknowledge that the cruiser suffered from a TOTAL structural failure when it was hit by the Jem'Hadar ship.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2002-10-09 05:31pm

Alyeska wrote:The second Bug does impact and indeed part of it continues past the Vorcha, however that is just the top Nacelle that wasn't completely destroyed in the ramming. It is not the entire Attack Ship that survives the impact but rather a single warp engine.

Jesus Christ on Zoloft, you people love your nitpicks. Who ever said the bug passed through the Vorcha completely intact? The point is that it blew through the Vorcha and out the other side; whether it was destroyed in the process is a red herring.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-09 06:37pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Alyeska wrote:The second Bug does impact and indeed part of it continues past the Vorcha, however that is just the top Nacelle that wasn't completely destroyed in the ramming. It is not the entire Attack Ship that survives the impact but rather a single warp engine.
Jesus Christ on Zoloft, you people love your nitpicks. Who ever said the bug passed through the Vorcha completely intact? The point is that it blew through the Vorcha and out the other side; whether it was destroyed in the process is a red herring.

I saw none of the Bug that impacted the Klingon ship pass through. The only part of the Bug that survived was the section that didn't impact the Klingon ship.

THAT is what I am saying.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-10-09 08:13pm

Incidentally, what was the relative speed of the Jem'Hadar ship when it hit the cruiser?

And it does not matter that the Jem'Hadar ship broke apart during the ramming process. The fact that any mass of the bug got through the cruiser represents a complete structural failure of the Vor'cha, which is confirmed by the way the ship breaks apart immediately afterward.

CmdrWilkens · Post by **CmdrWilkens** » 2002-10-09 08:20pm

Alyeska wrote:
CmdrWilkens wrote:
Alyeska wrote: Yeah.

Your going to have to cut and paste these in a seperate window and remove the http:// bit in order to view them.
<snip links>

This is the next frame of the explossion. Again notice how it is cenetered on the Deflector dish.
What is funny is that your "explosion" frame looks like nothing more than the same exact color spectra as the engines at a slightly greater intensity. Do you have any proof to counter my assertion that, given no noticeable change in spectra, what you are witnessing is simply the engines flaring for a last second extra ounce of impact force?
JH Engines are Blue and don't flare Orange.

In the PICTURE you have, specifically this one:
community.webshots.com/storage/1/v3/3/3 ... flk_ph.jpg
the engines are clearly Orange, now you can close your eyes and ignore the evidence or perhaps admit you have no counter.

Alyeska · Post by **Alyeska** » 2002-10-09 08:22pm

CmdrWilkens wrote:In the PICTURE you have, specifically this one:
community.webshots.com/storage/1/v3/3/3 ... flk_ph.jpg
the engines are clearly Orange, now you can close your eyes and ignore the evidence or perhaps admit you have no counter.

Which clearly indicate that they are exploding. Blue engines do not glow orange. Blue engines that are EXPLODING will have orange glow.