Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by Darth Wong »

MKSheppard wrote:Except no one wants to ride public transportation in the United States, especially buses? And you've never seen the traffic jam a single bus causes when it stops in the middle of a busy intersection to let off some fucknuts, and cuts off 1/2 of the capacity of that road...DURING RUSH HOUR.
Shep, you're missing the point. The density of riders per square metre of road in a bus is far, far greater than the density of riders per square metre of road in individual cars. If we had better public transit, then people would be more willing to use it, and there would be fewer cars on the road, hence fewer traffic problems.

Buses pack lots of riders into a small space, they stay in the right-hand lane, and they generally obey the rules of the road. That's a lot more than you can say for cars.

I've been driving for 15 years, and buses are not a problem on the road in my experience. The biggest problem on the road is automobile congestion due to sheer numbers and asshole drivers who do things like weaving in and out of lanes, slowing down to look at accidents, and driving into an intersection when traffic is already backed up into it on the other side, so that when the light goes red they're still sitting in the intersection and blocking traffic both ways (we call this lovely phenomenon "gridlock").

As for your objection that nobody takes public transit in North America, that's simply not true. Public transit is very efficient and useful in many situations, especially in urban centres. I use it myself to go downtown rather than driving, because parking downtown is shit. If public transit were made cheaper and faster, even more people would use it.
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

MKSheppard wrote:Except no one wants to ride public transportation in the United States,
Making Americans oft-elitist assholes. I have a car but I'd much rather deal with affordable, reliable, and comfortable public transit.
MKSheppard wrote:...especially buses? And you've never seen the traffic jam a single bus causes when it stops in the middle of a busy intersection to let off some fucknuts, and cuts off 1/2 of the capacity of that road...DURING RUSH HOUR.
With decent public transit systems, there wouldn't be as vastly overcrowded roads.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Darth Wong wrote:Public transit is very efficient and useful in many situations, especially in urban centres. I use it myself to go downtown rather than driving, because parking downtown is shit. If public transit were made cheaper and faster, even more people would use it.
Amen Mike.

I found the Metro or whatever in DC to be quite workable, as well as the "L" in Chicago.

My friend tells me they have superb systems in London.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
The Kernel
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 7438
Joined: 2003-09-17 02:31am
Location: Kweh?!

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by The Kernel »

Illuminatus Primus wrote: My friend tells me they have superb systems in London.
Oh God yes, the London subway has to be the best and most intuitive mass transit system in the world. You really don't want to drive above ground with such a great rail system.

I would also second the notion that mass transit is useful, even in North America. In the Bay Area, we have perhaps the worst mass transit system in the world and I still use CalTrain to get to San Francisco for ball games or clubbing.
User avatar
Peregrin Toker
Emperor's Hand
Posts: 8609
Joined: 2002-07-04 10:57am
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by Peregrin Toker »

Back on the original topic:

Thing is just, I'm afraid these hybrid cars won't be sold in Denmark - here, the taxes on cars are so high that "hybrids" aren't worth selling.
"Hi there, would you like to have a cookie?"

"No, actually I would HATE to have a cookie, you vapid waste of inedible flesh!"
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10228
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by Col. Crackpot »

The Kernel wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote: My friend tells me they have superb systems in London.
Oh God yes, the London subway has to be the best and most intuitive mass transit system in the world. You really don't want to drive above ground with such a great rail system.

I would also second the notion that mass transit is useful, even in North America. In the Bay Area, we have perhaps the worst mass transit system in the world and I still use CalTrain to get to San Francisco for ball games or clubbing.[/quote

thats all fine and dandy if you live in an urban area, but more than half of the population in the states live in rural or sparsely populated sub-urban areas. All of the areas you have pointed out (DC San Fran etc) are the largest of the metro areas and represent but a small fraction of the population. What good is a bus that has to meander through the country for 2 hours to get half a load?
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
User avatar
Alan Bolte
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2611
Joined: 2002-07-05 12:17am
Location: Columbus, OH

Post by Alan Bolte »

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the reason no one takes the bus where I live is that it only comes every 40 min except at the downtown areas around High Street, it costs $1.50 both ways, and it's not as comforatble as most people's cars. But because that is the case, and everyone already has 1-3 cars, nothing will change any time soon. Everyone would much rather pay higher taxes, no, scratch that, pay lower taxes and devote half the local budget to building even more and wider highways and parking lots.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
There's just no arguing with some people once they've made their minds up about something, and I accept that. That's why I kill them. -Othar
Avatar credit
User avatar
phongn
Rebel Leader
Posts: 18487
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:11pm

Post by phongn »

I'd love mass transit, but in the Tampa Bay area it doesn't really work well. We're too decentralized, unfortunately.

Now, Chicago is another story, I found the L quite wonderful. Same with London's Underground.
User avatar
LadyTevar
White Mage
White Mage
Posts: 23348
Joined: 2003-02-12 10:59pm

Post by LadyTevar »

Col. Crackpot wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:Arent hydrogen powered veichles better than hybrids ?
theoretically: maybe. but there haven't been any brought into large scale production. Hybrids finally seem to have hit big, and we may at last see massive increases in overall fuel efficency. Then the environmentalists will show their true colors!
I've actually seen two Hybrid cars here in WV. Both were in the 'ritzy' part of the capitol city.

The rest of WV drives trucks, SUVs, and mid-size cars that are mostly bondo and mis-matched paint. :wink:
Image
Nitram, slightly high on cough syrup: Do you know you're beautiful?
Me: Nope, that's why I have you around to tell me.
Nitram: You -are- beautiful. Anyone tries to tell you otherwise kill them.

"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP" -- Leonard Nimoy, last Tweet
User avatar
Illuminatus Primus
All Seeing Eye
Posts: 15774
Joined: 2002-10-12 02:52pm
Location: Gainesville, Florida, USA
Contact:

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

phongn wrote:I'd love mass transit, but in the Tampa Bay area it doesn't really work well. We're too decentralized, unfortunately.

Now, Chicago is another story, I found the L quite wonderful. Same with London's Underground.
And traffic is so terrible down here, too.
"You know what the problem with Hollywood is. They make shit. Unbelievable. Unremarkable. Shit." - Gabriel Shear, Swordfish

"This statement, in its utterly clueless hubristic stupidity, cannot be improved upon. I merely quote it in admiration of its perfection." - Garibaldi in reply to an incredibly stupid post.

The Fifth Illuminatus Primus | Warsie | Skeptical Empiricist | Florida Gator | Sustainability Advocate | Libertarian Socialist |
Image
User avatar
Darth Wong
Sith Lord
Sith Lord
Posts: 70028
Joined: 2002-07-03 12:25am
Location: Toronto, Canada
Contact:

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by Darth Wong »

Col. Crackpot wrote:thats all fine and dandy if you live in an urban area, but more than half of the population in the states live in rural or sparsely populated sub-urban areas. All of the areas you have pointed out (DC San Fran etc) are the largest of the metro areas and represent but a small fraction of the population. What good is a bus that has to meander through the country for 2 hours to get half a load?
So a solution that doesn't work in rural areas is no good? Be serious. No one is talking about outlawing all cars and replacing them with public transit; we are talking about improving public transit so that people in cities have an alternative, which will reduce the overall levels of pollution being created. Or do you think that a massive reduction in city-generated pollution would be insignificant?
Image
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing

"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC

"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness

"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10228
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: Honda Makes Enviromentalists it's bitch.

Post by Col. Crackpot »

Darth Wong wrote:
Col. Crackpot wrote:thats all fine and dandy if you live in an urban area, but more than half of the population in the states live in rural or sparsely populated sub-urban areas. All of the areas you have pointed out (DC San Fran etc) are the largest of the metro areas and represent but a small fraction of the population. What good is a bus that has to meander through the country for 2 hours to get half a load?
So a solution that doesn't work in rural areas is no good? Be serious. No one is talking about outlawing all cars and replacing them with public transit; we are talking about improving public transit so that people in cities have an alternative, which will reduce the overall levels of pollution being created. Or do you think that a massive reduction in city-generated pollution would be insignificant?
I live in a sizeable city and i care about pollution. Thing is Mike so many cities spend so much money on public transit and it is never used to anywhere near capacity. Los Angeles for example. There busses are clean, they run on time but they aren't used to capacity. The highways however are gridlocked. DO they build more highways to accomodate demand? No, they sink more money into public transit. How much could pollution be reduced if those roads were expanded and cars wern't sitting idle for hours a day? A hell of a lot . But no, they keep pushing the public transit pipe dream that everyone ignores, and the poloution levels stay the same. Sure, i could take the the bus to work where i live. RIPTA runs clean and on time just like LA does..... but i like my car. That being said i understand that the impact of that choice, so both of our cars are 4 cylinders and certified Ultra Low Emissons Vehicles by the EPA. Just because i live in a city and i choose to drive a car doen't mean that your pouluting.
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
User avatar
Col. Crackpot
That Obnoxious Guy
Posts: 10228
Joined: 2002-10-28 05:04pm
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Post by Col. Crackpot »

i really have to start typing slower and checking my spelling.

doen't mean that your pouluting. = doesn't mean i'm Polluting
"This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.” -Tom Clancy
Post Reply