The Ground weapon page

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-06 06:37pm

Well, Mike our great master not said a thing that he had updated the Ground weapons page for the Empire with additions from TPM and AOTC. It is well done, but raises some questions from my side.

My main concern is, that on the weapon tech page for SW, all weapons encountered are listed, even if they clearly not belong to the Empire (i.e. the Naboo and Trade Federation weapons, but not the Republic ones, because Republic=Empire). I think, it would be fair, if we then also would mention weapon tech from the other two fractions in ST (Roms and Klings), even if they have not so much by themselves. Also, I have some additional things to Fed weapons.

Things that I can think of now:
-Kingon and Romulan disruptor pistols are much better to handle (the Klingon type really looks like a weapon).
-Later phaser designs at the slowly ending 23rd century (ST VI) have real powerpack, that is put into the weapon like magazines into todays handguns. (That should be realy mentioned...)
-It should be mentioned, that during TOS, the Klingons used sonic grenades. (The episode on Organia)
-It should also be mentioned, that in TOS, people still had knowledge to build primitive firearms (Arena, ST V), something they are lacking in TNG.
-Since the Klingon sniper in ST VI wasn't a real Klingon, his sniper rifle should be mentioned....

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2004-01-06 11:09pm

-Kingon and Romulan disruptor pistols are much better to handle

Ergonomically, they're slightly better. Still lack an aiming mechanism, though, so they're still useless at ranges of greater than ten meters or so, at best.

-Later phaser designs at the slowly ending 23rd century (ST VI) have real powerpack, that is put into the weapon like magazines into todays handguns.

This should only be brought up as an example of even GREATER stupidity on the part of the Feddies, because they've clearly abandoned this design since then (they lost it, re-implemented it, and then lost it again?).

EmperorMing · Post by **EmperorMing** » 2004-01-07 12:37am

Tribun wrote:...
-It should also be mentioned, that in TOS, people still had knowledge to build primitive firearms (Arena, ST V), something they are lacking in TNG.
....

Remember that TNG episode where Picard made a crossbow when he faced off against that Bajoran terrorist? The Enterprise was in drydock for some wierd *maintenance*...

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-07 11:37am

By the way, can the Buggy from ST:N be classified as a Reconnaissance Vehicle? Then it should be added the the Fed armour site.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-07 01:05pm

Couple of nitpicky points:

Artillary
The LOS design of the SPHAT make it poor for most battlefields. Infact, since it can't lower its gun beyond a certain point, its use as conventional artillary is very questionable. However, that assumes it has a conventional use. Look how it is used in the films: to shoot down spacecraft. I propose that such a design is not to hit enemy troops, but to keep them honest as it were, and prevent them from calling in an orbital strike becaus any ship that would move into position to try would be hammered by their artillary. Other versions can launch missiles and the clone wars cartoons show them shooting projectiles that do little damage and arc. They are also blue like the shells firied by the AT-TE. All those lead me to suspect that is another kind, one which shoots slugs. Those two would be used against other ground forces.

You make mention of the Hailfire droid as a direct combat vehicle, and I have to disagree, when we was it in the movies it was functioning as an AA gun and it targeted concentrations of troops. Further, the NEGVV describes it as being defended by other tanks much as one would protect artillary and we saw them do to the SPHATs.

Also, you are missing Imperial Artillary like the AT-TL, the AT-IC, and the AT-AA

Small arms
I disagree with the characterization of the Clonetrooper rifle as a heavt sniper rifle, its power output is not that different from that of a stormtrooper blaster and it can fire in automatic mode

Armor
The MTT holds far more then 112 droids and Bob Brown discovered. The ICS simply fucked that one up.

The AT-TE is also a APC like the AT-AT, it just doesn't hold as many troops. The republic tank is the Republic Fighter Tank Here's the ICS style photo (if anyone can grab that as a JPEG I'd appreciae getting a copy) Also note the link to the AT-XT

Are you certain that the AATs were firing shells? If memory serves the shields on te Tantive IV splintered a shot in the same method.

You might want to update the bit with the AT-ATs, the rationalization now seems to be that what we saw in the move were the AT-HEs mentioned in the ICS while the AT-ATs are the shorter, slimmer vehicles we see in "War on Jablim"

You mention coordination through the AT-ST, there is more support for that since in the AOTC ICS is says that clonetroopers were coordinated through the vehicles.

Other random shit

You should mention that the Storimes and clones are the marines of the Empire/Republic, and that there is a seperate Imperial Army made of conscripts.

I didn't see anything about the PLEX should mounted launcer there

Bring up stuff about the benefits, detriments, and required industrial output for a clone force.

I didn't see anything about the LAAT/I, LAAT/C, or the spacegoing version of the LAAT from the clone wars cartoon. Those are important It's all about the air support.

Tribun · Post by **Tribun** » 2004-01-07 03:28pm

The LOS design of the SPHAT make it poor for most battlefields. Infact, since it can't lower its gun beyond a certain point, its use as conventional artillary is very questionable. However, that assumes it has a conventional use. Look how it is used in the films: to shoot down spacecraft. I propose that such a design is not to hit enemy troops, but to keep them honest as it were, and prevent them from calling in an orbital strike becaus any ship that would move into position to try would be hammered by their artillary. Other versions can launch missiles and the clone wars cartoons show them shooting projectiles that do little damage and arc. They are also blue like the shells firied by the AT-TE. All those lead me to suspect that is another kind, one which shoots slugs. Those two would be used against other ground forces.

Eh...maybe we haven't seen the full capacity of this unit, and we have only seen it's anti aircraft mode?

AT-AA:

Artellery:

Heavy Artellery:

The Empire got shield disablers also as real vehicles:

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2004-01-07 04:47pm

Maybe the SP-HAT are more like assault guns, like the StuG-III or SU-76. They have an artillery cannon, but their purpose is to provide direct fire support.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-01-07 05:05pm

Ender wrote:Also, you are missing Imperial Artillary like the AT-TL, the AT-IC

What are those?

Ender wrote: I didn't see anything about the PLEX should mounted launcer there

It's mentioned in the original pages.

Ender · Post by **Ender** » 2004-01-07 07:20pm

nightmare wrote:
Ender wrote:Also, you are missing Imperial Artillary like the AT-TL, the AT-IC
What are those?

You are clearly defficient in your studies of the holy writ of Saxton.

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/walkers.html
Last entry in the unclassified other section. They are old toys.

Ender wrote: I didn't see anything about the PLEX should mounted launcer there

It's mentioned in the original pages.[/quote]

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-01-07 07:49pm

While were on the topic of site updates: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/Battles.html

Notice a major SW battle that's missing?

I don't blame Mike for procrastination, hey, I have a vs. site that I haven't updated in months, for lack of time.

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2004-01-07 08:51pm

Either army at Geonosis would totally annhilate it's Federation counterpart, so what's even the point?

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-01-07 08:59pm

GrandAdmiralPrawn wrote:Either army at Geonosis would totally annhilate it's Federation counterpart, so what's even the point?

For the same reason the other battles are their.

nightmare · Post by **nightmare** » 2004-01-07 09:54pm

Ender wrote:You are clearly defficient in your studies of the holy writ of Saxton.

Lol, I thought it might be from that page, but it's ages since I read that. Thanks.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-01-07 10:10pm

That TX-130 ICS style photo fucking rules. Where'd that come from (i.e. I know it comes from Clone Wars- but who did it?)

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-01-07 10:31pm

Ender wrote:You might want to update the bit with the AT-ATs, the rationalization now seems to be that what we saw in the move were the AT-HEs mentioned in the ICS while the AT-ATs are the shorter, slimmer vehicles we see in "War on Jablim"

Huh?

Where'd you get that?

The basic concensus is that the AT-AT is an evolving design, and those were the original models.

The Hoth AT-AT may be like....Model1A4 Mod 5 or something.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-08 12:35am

Just a note, guys: the reason I have not said anything on the "What's New" page about my modifications to the Ground Combat pages is that I'm still working on them.

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2004-01-08 03:36am

I noticed that your remarks about the E-WEB being set up and nearly ready to fire are actually wrong. The E-WEB did fire off a shot before the gunner got blasted by Han.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-08 04:17am

Small gripe about the real life infantry weapons page.

Mike's Page wrote:Some famous SMGs such as the British Sten gun were made from stamped metal and so enormous quantities could be manufactured very quickly, even under duress. This made the SMG a good fit for Britain and Russia in WW2, both of whom were attempting to mobilize and expand their armies while being bombed into the Stone Age by the Nazis.

Britain's factories were never seriously hampered by Luftwaffe actions throughout WW2, and the Soviet Union suffered almost zero damage from strategic bombing (a whopping 87 missions against Moscow, according to Luftwaffe: A History by Harold Faber). The real damage to Soviet industry was the forcible relocation of factories to locations east of the Urals. This was prompted by fears of German bombing, but this never actually materialized.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-01-08 09:56am

IRG CommandoJoe wrote:I noticed that your remarks about the E-WEB being set up and nearly ready to fire are actually wrong. The E-WEB did fire off a shot before the gunner got blasted by Han.

You sure? I don't remember that. Screenie?

IRG CommandoJoe · Post by **IRG CommandoJoe** » 2004-01-08 12:10pm

Vympel wrote:You sure? I don't remember that. Screenie?

I can't give you a screen cap. But I can assure that I just checked that scene in slow motion on my VCR and it fired off two shots just before the gunner got hit. I actually saw a orange-ish (at least on my TV) muzzle flash and the lasers lined up with the barrel when it moved both times, so I'm positive they were indeed from the E-WEB.

However, this is the original version and not the special edition. I can't think of why they would change that one scene in particular, but as we all know, the special edition's changes override anything in the original movies. So if the special edition eliminated those two bolts, I'm wrong.

So that's my answer to your question.

Wild Karrde · Post by **Wild Karrde** » 2004-01-08 03:49pm

The E-WEB still fires off two shots in the SE.

Post by **Vympel** » 2004-01-08 09:39pm

Cool. Note on the ground weapons page:

Yet another long-barreled gun design in the canon films was Han Solo's captured Imperial blaster rifle (above right). This one is bulkier than either the Rebel or Imperial assault rifles mentioned earlier, but it's not as bulky as their heavy automatic weapons. It may be a light automatic weapon, but it's difficult to tell for sure.

This is a DLT-19 Heavy Blaster Rifle- Han tosses this over to Chewbacca for his use in the detention block scene- in the SE, his firing it is accompanied by distinctive, powerful sound effects that definitely make it seem like it's a newer version of the Clonetrooper rifle rather than a light automatic weapon (the name seems to preclude that, as the T-21 is a "Light Repeating Blaster" and named as such).

Then there's this design, it's just as common in ANH as the T-21 and DLT-19, deserves a mention:

It's unidentified by the official literature.

YT300000 · Post by **YT300000** » 2004-01-08 09:57pm

Mike, I think you should split the Assault rifle bit into Combat and Battle rifle, with guns like the DLT-19 in the former, and ones like the A-280 in the latter.

Oh, and a BlasTech A-280 is what the guys in the background are holding:

Wild Karrde · Post by **Wild Karrde** » 2004-01-09 02:32am

Here's another gun from Galactic Battlegrounds. Don't know if it has a name yet.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-09 03:49am

Wild Karrde wrote:Here's another gun from Galactic Battlegrounds. Don't know if it has a name yet.

That one almost looks like a tactical shotgun analogue. I wonder if that's actually what it's used for.

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