Extended Universe Blows so much

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Illuminatus Primus
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

zombie84 wrote:I agree. The EU is comprised of shitty sci fi written by equally horrid writers--for the most part at least. Theres a diamond in the rough here and there, but even still, they tend to take Star Wars in silly directions and often reduce the great Star Wars series to the level of Star Trek.

Its a combinations of the sheer quantity of EU that is written, the fact that a lot of times the authors are limited in their narrative (a natural consequence when you have one hundred authors all competing in the same fictional universe) and a bunch of smaller miscellaneous things, like the fact that most of the EU writters just arent very good authors--again, this may be due to the above two facts, but it seems to me that EU often smacks of the same quality (and not surprising, the very same storylines) that you would find in POS fan fiction (hell sometimes even that is better). I guess one of the problems may be that the EU essentially boils down to the fact that its movie-merchandise.

It does anger me when people often argue the crappy EU notions with the same validity as the films, because the EU often carries the series into realms not really meant for Star Wars (i guess its just denial), but what can you expect? At least Lucas can acknowledge that the EU exists in its own seperate alternate universe from the films.
Quite frankly the Bantam run was a joke.

There should've been epic comic/novel series covering the fall of Coruscant, the rise of Thrawn, and the return of Palpatine. The rest could've been filled in by I, Jedi style novels (but with less masturbation), and X-Wing style series to cover the war.

Quite frankly a good pulp contribution while remaining pretty fluid and not as pretentious as previous EU is the Jedi, Republic, and Empire series.

Little comics like that do a good job of continuing the story of Star Wars while keeping it small. I think it works a lot better and I'm personally glad that they've begun to put their emphasis there.
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Post by Stofsk »

Kitsune wrote:
Stofsk wrote:The Thrawn books are good examples of the EU at work: exciting plot, cool and interesting characters, and a climax that doesn't suck (TLC). Even the duology is pretty good (though not at the same level), and it does a good job of showing just how fucked up the NR is when it comes to inter-faction squabbling.

I must admit I've never read any of the NJO. Can anyone recommend some of the books to read? Which were the best? Which are best avoided?
I stopped after the X-wing series....the Thrawn series was ok in my opinion but not great...Zahn still seems to love the "Super Weapon" just too much. No super, in the sense of something like the deathstar, but high tech solutions to tactical / strategic problems. Truce at Bakura was not very good either although better than Anderson's books.
I take back what I said about TLC's climax - Thrawn dies in an unexpected and deserved way (which was good), but we read nothing about the battle between the Imperials and Rebels. Both fleets should have been seen duking it out; instead, we get no impression of the conditions in the battle or how desperate it was for either side. It was an "OK" climax, but not really good.

I stopped reading after the X-wing series as well. Y'know what's worse than the "super-weapon-of-the-week" idea which permeates throughout SW EU? The "small-band-of-heroes-that-triumph-inspite-of-overwhelming-odds" idea in the X-wing novels. It just sucks to see a SSD taken down by a fleet of freighters. The BFC books weren't top shit, either. They were interesting, but they weren't Star Wars.

But what about the NJO? Are there any books in it which don't suck? Or are interesting?
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Post by DPDarkPrimus »

Stofsk wrote: But what about the NJO? Are there any books in it which don't suck? Or are interesting?
Not particularly. I curse myself for ever purchasing some of them.
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Stofsk wrote: But what about the NJO? Are there any books in it which don't suck? Or are interesting?
Not particularly. I curse myself for ever purchasing some of them.
Star By Star is the best EU novel since TTT.
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Post by The Cleric »

I rather liked "Traitor" as well.
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Post by SylasGaunt »

Stofsk wrote: I stopped reading after the X-wing series as well. Y'know what's worse than the "super-weapon-of-the-week" idea which permeates throughout SW EU? The "small-band-of-heroes-that-triumph-inspite-of-overwhelming-odds" idea in the X-wing novels. It just sucks to see a SSD taken down by a fleet of freighters.
It's been a while since I read the X-wing books but weren't those freighters loaded down with anti-ship torpedoes? And weren't the Rogues there in their X-wings.. in fact wasn't there a star destroyer or two there to?
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Post by Stofsk »

SylasGaunt wrote:
Stofsk wrote: I stopped reading after the X-wing series as well. Y'know what's worse than the "super-weapon-of-the-week" idea which permeates throughout SW EU? The "small-band-of-heroes-that-triumph-inspite-of-overwhelming-odds" idea in the X-wing novels. It just sucks to see a SSD taken down by a fleet of freighters.
It's been a while since I read the X-wing books-
Same for me.
-but weren't those freighters loaded down with anti-ship torpedoes?
Yes, but this is an SSD we're talking about. It's designed to go against fleets of smaller vessels. Those freighters should've been destroyed.
And weren't the Rogues there in their X-wings.. in fact wasn't there a star destroyer or two there to?
You mean an ISD in the hands of Wedge and his team? I... can't remember that. :|
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Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

Stofsk wrote:You mean an ISD in the hands of Wedge and his team? I... can't remember that. :|
Sair Yonka's Avarice. Later reinforced by the captured (man, Varrscha was DUMB) Virulence. We can rationalize it all we want and bring it CLOSE to plausibility, but let's face it, it is really fighter-wank stuff on the edge of such totally contradicting the conclusions from canon ROTJ that it can be almost ignored.
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Post by Murazor »

The Black fleet crisis is some of the best writing I've seen in the EU to the date.
However, this brings something to mind? Where in hell are hiding the fallanasis since the end of the Farlax crisis? At some point, the Vong will heard of them and try to hunt them...
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Post by PainRack »

Murazor wrote:The Black fleet crisis is some of the best writing I've seen in the EU to the date.
However, this brings something to mind? Where in hell are hiding the fallanasis since the end of the Farlax crisis? At some point, the Vong will heard of them and try to hunt them...
Are you nuts? The BFC is good science fiction writing, there's no doubt about that, but BFC wasn't Star Wars. Its just another author trying to use an established brandname to sell stuff.



As for this whole Dark/Light business, hasn't this been written enough about already? The whole "Your actions determine the Dark/Light" force thingy has been going ever since the EU started. IMO, the whole "There is No Dark Side" actually enhances the myth aspect of the Force. Its certainly better than KJA routine "I can sense the Dark Side in You. You want to kill, main," one dimensional characters.
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Post by Crazedwraith »

Kazuaki Shimazaki wrote:
Stofsk wrote:You mean an ISD in the hands of Wedge and his team? I... can't remember that. :|
Sair Yonka's Avarice. Later reinforced by the captured (man, Varrscha was DUMB) Virulence. We can rationalize it all we want and bring it CLOSE to plausibility, but let's face it, it is really fighter-wank stuff on the edge of such totally contradicting the conclusions from canon ROTJ that it can be almost ignored.
[nitpick]Techinically Wedge and his team did not have the ISD Avarice under their comand ever. The Star destroyer was the Freedom (it was the ISD but it was renamed.) [/nit]
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Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Stofsk wrote:I take back what I said about TLC's climax - Thrawn dies in an unexpected and deserved way (which was good), but we read nothing about the battle between the Imperials and Rebels. Both fleets should have been seen duking it out; instead, we get no impression of the conditions in the battle or how desperate it was for either side. It was an "OK" climax, but not really good.
Zahn has some great adversion to using maximalist combat and to allow some confrontations to be demonstrators of the n squared law, rather than bizarre psychological clarvoyance and trickery by Thrawn or whomever.
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Re: Sorry - I'm forgetful

Post by Darth Mall »

Falcon wrote:
Pacifists in general are willing to make huge sacrifices for peace. For the record, I'm curious, what "massive concessions."
He indicated a willingless to let the Vong have whatever they'd already taken, including Coruscant. What makes him think that after they've rebuilt they won't take the rest of the galaxy and wipe out all the original inhabitants as per their STATED INTENTIONS. That really bugs me.
Errr... i thought that all of the YV were exiled to Zonoma Sedkot for "re-education", and that Coruscant was to be slowly healed with the halp of the world brain.

Anyway Germanys intention it WWII was to wipe out all the Jews and most of the impure, but when Germany was defeated we didn't kill all of the women, children, and people not involved in the war(think slaves, shamed ones and nonwarriors in the SW galaxy) did we?

Anyway I didn't think that the NJO was that horrible bad, when compared to KJA books.
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Post by Stofsk »

Illuminatus Primus wrote:Zahn has some great adversion to using maximalist combat and to allow some confrontations to be demonstrators of the n squared law, rather than bizarre psychological clarvoyance and trickery by Thrawn or whomever.
I liked Zahn's books because they were interesting and gripping - well, to me at least, some find them boring. But he just can't write battles, for some reason. His clarvoyance and "artistic insights" were a cool character trait, but his minimalist fleet battles were a big let down.

Is there any book in the EU which has some nifty fleet combat, on the likes of which rival or exceed the Battle of Endor (the novelisation of which kicks arse)? The Stackpole X-wing series doesn't have it, just a bunch of flyboys taking down SSDs and so on, the BFC series had some, but the final battle ended with a bizarre plot contrivance that annoyed me. I guess the NJO would have some fleet battles - are they any good?
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Post by Kazuaki Shimazaki »

to a nice fleet battle in the pre-NJO era was probably Allston's Solo Command. No shit about dome sabotage. While the Fleet wasn't as big as Endor's, it was at least a fleet that might have a shot at taking down a 5-mile ship (better than a bunch of freighters.) The book used fairly conventional tactics (parallel battle, starfighters.) Solo got an Intelligence advantage (Lara kept sending him the enemy's damage control reports, thus letting him know where to hit) to counteract Zsinj's superior firepower.

I've heard that Star by Stars chronicled the Battle of Coruscant and that was supposedly pretty good, but I never read it.

EDIT: By the 5-mile ship. Yes, the Executor is 11-miles. What I meant was that the battle was COMPUTED by Allston using a 5-mile ship. So at least in a purely literary sense the OOB was reasonable for the invalid five-mile VERSION of the SSD. I would think if Allston knew the Executor was 11 miles long, he would probably tack on a few more ships to Solo's Fleet to balnace it out.
Last edited by Kazuaki Shimazaki on 2004-01-10 09:57pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by YT300000 »

Stofsk wrote:
Illuminatus Primus wrote:Zahn has some great adversion to using maximalist combat and to allow some confrontations to be demonstrators of the n squared law, rather than bizarre psychological clarvoyance and trickery by Thrawn or whomever.
I liked Zahn's books because they were interesting and gripping - well, to me at least, some find them boring. But he just can't write battles, for some reason. His clarvoyance and "artistic insights" were a cool character trait, but his minimalist fleet battles were a big let down.

Is there any book in the EU which has some nifty fleet combat, on the likes of which rival or exceed the Battle of Endor (the novelisation of which kicks arse)? The Stackpole X-wing series doesn't have it, just a bunch of flyboys taking down SSDs and so on, the BFC series had some, but the final battle ended with a bizarre plot contrivance that annoyed me. I guess the NJO would have some fleet battles - are they any good?
Some are pretty good, like the attack on the Worldship, or the Destiny's Way end battle, but other ones sucked (Vector Prime end battle, using shieldships as mirrors-ugh).
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Post by Agent Fisher »

Lets just face it Star Wars novels and the prequel belong in the toliet to crap on. There just one of those painful Shits, that you just have to bite your lip and squeeze the shit out.
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Post by Stormbringer »

Falcon:

Punctuation is your friend. The English language, learn it, love it, use it! For gods sake at least break it into paragraphs.
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