Hamel wrote:IIRC that ballot was illegal, therefore should not have been in use. The common red-herring response to that was "but a democrat designed it, so it's ok". I can see how it would confuse people (especially the elderly), but regardless of that, it was an illegal ballot.
I've honestly heard enough of that ballot garbage. If you can't read the fucking ballot and you vote for the wrong fucking person, you are a complete fucking idiot and you damn well deserve what you get. Boohoo, you're senile and don't know how to follow simple directions that a 4 year-old could, too bad. "I can't read the ballot, I thought I voted for Mr. so & so", gee maybe you're too fucking dumb to vote. Learn to read & follow instructions, and learn how to punch a hole, it ain't that hard.
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I've honestly heard enough of that ballot garbage. If you can't read the fucking ballot and you vote for the wrong fucking person, you are a complete fucking idiot and you damn well deserve what you get. Boohoo, you're senile and don't know how to follow simple directions that a 4 year-old could, too bad. "I can't read the ballot, I thought I voted for Mr. so & so", gee maybe you're too fucking dumb to vote. Learn to read & follow instructions, and learn how to punch a hole, it ain't that hard.
Regardless of the stupidity of old people who let a card handed out by someone else decide who they vote for, an illegal ballot is pretty much an illegal ballot. Really, anyone who who disregards the legality of a ballot on the basis of the stupidity of some old people is also pretty fucking stupid and desperate. That wasn't the only ballot problem and was far from the largest, more are detailed here
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
I also remember that Broward County commission, made up totally of Democrats conducting their recount. When a vote was cast for two candidates, they chose the Democrat. The whole recount was a farce that deserved to be flushed. It's funny how Democrats side with the Florida State Supreme Court, when they ruled in favor of eternal recounts (read: until the Democrats stole sufficient votes to lock up the election), while the same Democrats blasted the US Supreme Court for overruling the crooked Florida Justices. In addition, I'll add that my vote was one of the military overseas votes (I was in Korea) that was not counted by those same flunkies "counting" votes in Broward County.
John 3:16-18 Warwolves G2
The University of North AlabamaLions!
It's all more of the same partisan BS that has come from both sides for years. You can point to the Florida ballot and registration list purge. I can point to the cemetery precincts in Chicago and illegal aliens voting in California.
It's nothing new. The only reason we heard about it at all is that the 2000 election was so damned close, practically every vote did count.
And the real reason Gore lost has less to do with Florida than with him failing to win his home state. The only other major party candidate to do that in modern times was McGovern in 1972. Even Carter in 1980 and Mondale in 1984 managed to win their home states.
If Gore had won Tennessee, he'd be in the White House right now.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
muse wrote:
I've honestly heard enough of that ballot garbage. If you can't read the fucking ballot and you vote for the wrong fucking person, you are a complete fucking idiot and you damn well deserve what you get. Boohoo, you're senile and don't know how to follow simple directions that a 4 year-old could, too bad. "I can't read the ballot, I thought I voted for Mr. so & so", gee maybe you're too fucking dumb to vote. Learn to read & follow instructions, and learn how to punch a hole, it ain't that hard.
You're a fucking moron. My dad took me with him when he went to vote that election, just to show me the ropes, and we both had to look at the card closely to find what my dad wanted. And besides, those people too dumb to "fucking vote", as you put it, risked their lives to help defend your freedom in a war that really mattered. Don't blast that which you don't know.
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Post 666 Made on Fri Jul 04, 2003 @ 12:48 pm
Post 1337 made on Fri Aug 22, 2003 @ 9:18 am
Post 1492 Made on Fri Aug 29, 2003 @ 5:16 pm
Having fought in WWII does not excuse failure to exercise basic intellectual reasoning in order to vote.
BoTM / JL / MM / HAB / VRWC / Horseman
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Glocksman wrote:It's all more of the same partisan BS that has come from both sides for years. You can point to the Florida ballot and registration list purge. I can point to the cemetery precincts in Chicago and illegal aliens voting in California.
You can point to Daley, and I will not make any excuses for his vote fraud, but you know as well as I do that it is a red herring when talking about the vote fraud in Florida.
And the real reason Gore lost has less to do with Florida than with him failing to win his home state. The only other major party candidate to do that in modern times was McGovern in 1972. Even Carter in 1980 and Mondale in 1984 managed to win their home states.
And that doesn't change what DBT and the republicans did in 2000. Another red herring.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
I have learned from the local VRWC that you can't discuss 2000 with them without some red herring about Daley or Tennesee being brought in. I guess I'll have to deal with it.
"Right now we can tell you a report was filed by the family of a 12 year old boy yesterday afternoon alleging Mr. Michael Jackson of criminal activity. A search warrant has been filed and that search is currently taking place. Mr. Jackson has not been charged with any crime. We cannot specifically address the content of the police report as it is confidential information at the present time, however, we can confirm that Mr. Jackson forced the boy to listen to the Howard Stern show and watch the movie Private Parts over and over again."
You seem to think I'm excusing the purge of the rolls (which is the real issue in my eyes. Listing the Democrats 3rd instead of 2nd is not a violation of the right to vote). I'm not. I'm merely pointing out that the Florida abuses were hardly the only ones perpetrated that year.
Sure, the Republicans played dirty pool. So did the Democrats.
Both parties do it, and when Gore's supporters played 'who struck John?'. it strikes me as more than a little hypocritical.
Besides, this VRWC member has had enough of Bush and his bullshit.
I'm voting in the Democratic primary for Dean and I'll vote for him in the general election if he wins the nomination. I may not agree with everything Dean stands for, but I'll be damned if I'll vote for Bush.
If Dean loses the nomination, I'll vote 3rd party.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
I'm studying for the CPA exam. Have a nice summer, and if you're down just sit back and realize that Joe is off somewhere, doing much worse than you are.
Probably, but I haven't missed a single election since 1985.
Seriously though, if Dean wins and works to roll back things like the patriot act and holding citizens without charges being filed, I'll regard that as an improvement.
Over the last several months I've come around from being a Bush supporter and in favor of the Iraqi war to opposing him and being furious about the lies told about WMD to justify the war.
Given his support for the AWB, PATRIOT act, blatant disregard of the 4th and 5th amendments, immigration proposals, and so on, Bush has managed to come down on the wrong side of just about every hot button issue that I have.
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."- General Sir Charles Napier
I've been a Conservative since I've been able to vote in '88, but I may be abstaining from the Presidential election this time around ... something I never thought I'd even contemplate....
John 3:16-18 Warwolves G2
The University of North AlabamaLions!
jegs2 wrote:I've been a Conservative since I've been able to vote in '88, but I may be abstaining from the Presidential election this time around ... something I never thought I'd even contemplate....
Ain't that the bitch. I'm not exactly happy with Bush either but damn, Dean just ain't lighting my candle and the rest are a joke at best and a nightmare at worst. Well, Clark is meh instead of blah but.......
They say, "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants and patriots." I suppose it never occurred to them that they are the tyrants, not the patriots. Those weapons are not being used to fight some kind of tyranny; they are bringing them to an event where people are getting together to talk. -Mike Wong
But as far as board culture in general, I do think that young male overaggression is a contributing factor to the general atmosphere of hostility. It's not SOS and the Mess throwing hand grenades all over the forum- Red
Bob McDob wrote:So, am I missing something here? Are either of them really that bad? Or has American politics gotten a lot nastier and/or personal in the last decade?
If anything politics are far tamer than they were. Back in the old days a personal attack meant some one had literally been attacked and usually beaten with in an inch of their lives. Some politicions financed newspapers for the sole purpose of slandering their rivals.
jegs2 wrote:I've been a Conservative since I've been able to vote in '88, but I may be abstaining from the Presidential election this time around ... something I never thought I'd even contemplate....
Ain't that the bitch. I'm not exactly happy with Bush either but damn, Dean just ain't lighting my candle and the rest are a joke at best and a nightmare at worst. Well, Clark is meh instead of blah but.......
That's how I felt during the last election. Hence my protest vote thrown to Nader.
Even if you aren't going to vote for President there are usually other things to vote for. Congressmen, Senators, Judges, Sheriff, umpteen voter initiatives etc...
By the pricking of my thumb,
Something wicked this way comes.
Open, locks,
Whoever knocks.
1. The ballot was illegal. It should not have been used.
2. Once the ballot was used to take the vote, there wasn't a lot that could have been done except for go with whatever the vote said.
3. Frankly, the ballot was pretty clear about what was going on. I feel that if you honestly can't figure it out then you probably shouldn't be voting, anyway, and given the previous stipulation (ie. it is SERIOUSLY illegal to call for a second vote, even if the previous ballot used was illegal), the hands of the system were effectively tied.
Thus, it shouldn't have happened in the first place, but given that it did the situation was probably handled correctly. As my dad said, "I believe that more people went to West Palm Beech polling stations intending to vote for Al Gore than managed to cast their votes for Al Gore, however that isn't what the ballots show, and there's no way of figuring out the magnitude of the discrepency."
Last edited by Master of Ossus on 2004-01-12 03:59am, edited 1 time in total.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
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Glocksman wrote:Probably, but I haven't missed a single election since 1985.
Seriously though, if Dean wins and works to roll back things like the patriot act and holding citizens without charges being filed, I'll regard that as an improvement.
Over the last several months I've come around from being a Bush supporter and in favor of the Iraqi war to opposing him and being furious about the lies told about WMD to justify the war.
Given his support for the AWB, PATRIOT act, blatant disregard of the 4th and 5th amendments, immigration proposals, and so on, Bush has managed to come down on the wrong side of just about every hot button issue that I have.
Welcome to my world. It's not that I'm so hot on Dean, I actually disagree with a lot of his policies. I'm just rather disgusted about the Iraq thing. I'm not sure who I'm disgusted with, the Bush administration for (at best) distorting the truth, or with myself for believing them.
Oh, it's mostly polite, of course, as political debates in America are required to be, but it seems like everything is Bush's fault with them.
Your political debates are polite?
In Australian the politicians exploit parliamentary privilege to its fullest extend. Watching Question time in Federal parliament is a laugh.
And we have much stronger anti-slander laws.
"Okay, I'll have the truth with a side order of clarity." ~ Dr. Daniel Jackson.
"Reality has a well-known liberal bias." ~ Stephen Colbert
"One Drive, One Partition, the One True Path" ~ ars technica forums - warrens - on hhd partitioning schemes.
In response to the OP, one of the things Americans do is attempt to discredit their heroes. Frankly, it happens everywhere and to almost everyone, with only a few TRULY exceptional human beings escaping because they didn't do anything wrong. For example, if you look at a list of the American Founding Fathers, you'll find that lots of researchers have done studies on every single one of them in an effort to find personal improprieties, racism, etc. etc. etc. on their character sheets. George Washington alone seems to have escaped, but not because of a lack of effort. Michael Jordan is a more modern figure that is investigated to death. When it was learned he had racked up a gambling debt of a few hundred thousand dollars, LOTS of people went out and investigated the heck out of it until it was confirmed that none of that debt came from betting on basketball. In order to be a major figure in the United States, you have to know that there will be people out to investigate every aspect of your life. As a reporter, that's part of my job that I don't particularly enjoy doing (partly because it's frickin' hard and partly because I think it's stupid), but I also have a responsibility to inform the public and to give them the best picture that I can. I honestly believe that in our lifetimes there will never again be a "perfect" president, since all US presidents are investigated SO much as to dig up ANY problems that they have ever had or will have.
"Sometimes I think you WANT us to fail." "Shut up, just shut up!" -Two Guys from Kabul
Latinum Star Recipient; Hacker's Cross Award Winner
"one soler flar can vapririze the planit or malt the nickl in lass than millasacit" -Bagara1000
Bob McDob wrote:So, am I missing something here? Are either of them really that bad? Or has American politics gotten a lot nastier and/or personal in the last decade?
If anything politics are far tamer than they were. Back in the old days a personal attack meant some one had literally been attacked and usually beaten with in an inch of their lives. Some politicions financed newspapers for the sole purpose of slandering their rivals.
In one of the most notorious such incidents prior to the American Civil War, South Carolina Democratic congressman Preston Brooks beat Republican Senator Charles Sumner on the floor of the Senate, with his walking cane, following Sumner's vitriolic attack upon Brooks' cousin, a fellow senator. There have been political cartoons such as the one which depicted presidential candidate Zachary Taylor sitting contentedly in his full-dress uniform atop a pyramid of human skulls, the vicious anti-Lincoln cartoons drawn by Adalbert Volck for Southern newspapers, and equally vicious (and clever) cartoons drawn by Thomas Nast against the Tamany Hall political machine, President Andrew Johnson (who in one was depicted as a Caligula-like figure presiding over the feeding of his critics to the lions), and presidential candidate Horace Greely. There have been handbills printed denouncing Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, and others as murderers, atheists, French Revolutionary sympathisers, etc... Rumours that Jefferson was bedding one of his slaves was often a staple of Federalist Party propaganda, while Jackson always held that his enemies drove his wife Rachel to her death with their personal attacks against her.
Today's political polemicists have nothing in their rhetorical arsenals to compare to the standard for "the politics of personal destruction" of the 18th and 19th centuries.
When ballots have fairly and constitutionally decided, there can be no successful appeal back to bullets.
—Abraham Lincoln
People pray so that God won't crush them like bugs.
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Oil an emergency?! It's about time, Brigadier, that the leaders of this planet of yours realised that to remain dependent upon a mineral slime simply doesn't make sense.
—The Doctor "Terror Of The Zygons" (1975)
