Tonights Democratic Debate.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-01-12 09:22pm

Caught a little bit of this while I was downstairs, heard Howard Dean talking about needing to fix the bias in all white american people when hiring minoritys for jobs.

FUCK YOU YOU PIECE OF SHIT!

I've lived in Texas all my life, in ever school I've been in I have been the mother fucking minority(there were 2 white people in my entire grade in elementary, K-4), and my parents were liberal hippies and raised me with no racist beliefs, you you can go suck a marble out of your asshole Dean.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-12 09:32pm

Who the hell put a bug up your ass, anyway? He wasn't talking about you personally.

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2004-01-12 10:23pm

Iceberg wrote:Who the hell put a bug up your ass, anyway? He wasn't talking about you personally.

He kept saying all white americans, first time I heard it I wasn't that bothered but he kept using the phrase all white americans.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-12 10:26pm

Yes, he can be condescending. It may cause him trouble down the road.

Worlds Spanner · Post by **Worlds Spanner** » 2004-01-12 10:27pm

Take a deep breath. Take another.

Now, could you give some context here? I didn't see the debate - what exactly did Dean say?

And in general, you could be the exception to a trend you know. If, hypothetically, Dean is right about whatever he's saying, you could pat yourself on your back for being ahead of your time. Or was he proposing a policy that would hurt you concretely?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-01-12 10:27pm

Glad to know Dean is here to tell us how to live, where would be without his wisdom?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-13 12:38am

Every time I've heard Dean speak on the issue, he's said something like "Every human has an unconscious tendancy to hire people like themself".

Illuminatus Primus · Post by **Illuminatus Primus** » 2004-01-13 01:06am

Love to see him cite a study or something as proof. Handwavium doesn't inspire that well.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-13 04:48am

Well I assume to a certain extent it is probably true. People (and dogs and mosquitos for that matter) tend to associate with their own kind.

I generally like people to cite sources on that, but it's really not feasable in a public debate when the average listener has a 3.2 second attention span.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-13 04:54am

Howedar wrote:Well I assume to a certain extent it is probably true. People (and dogs and mosquitos for that matter) tend to associate with their own kind.

I generally like people to cite sources on that, but it's really not feasable in a public debate when the average listener has a 3.2 second attention span.

That highlights another weakness in his argument, though. If association with similar creatures is a biological necessity, and if it exists in "all white americans," then what the hell is he going to do about it?

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2004-01-13 05:23am

It's not necessarily a biological necessity. It could just be a tendancy. Nor do I recall him saying that it existed only in white Americans (although I have by no means heard every speech of Dean's).

I think it's a silly argument myself, just to be clear.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2004-01-13 12:27pm

Master of Ossus wrote:
Howedar wrote:Well I assume to a certain extent it is probably true. People (and dogs and mosquitos for that matter) tend to associate with their own kind.

I generally like people to cite sources on that, but it's really not feasable in a public debate when the average listener has a 3.2 second attention span.
That highlights another weakness in his argument, though. If association with similar creatures is a biological necessity, and if it exists in "all white americans," then what the hell is he going to do about it?

And will that go against the biological necessity of the minorities that he wants to 'force' into other populations. Not that I believe such crap, but if his underlying principle is that like races cling to like races, then he is forceable seperateing the minorities as well.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-01-13 12:32pm

Howedar wrote:Every time I've heard Dean speak on the issue, he's said something like "Every human has an unconscious tendancy to hire people like themself".

Really?! Guess that's why in the last three years I have hired 5 women [1 Irish, 1 WASP, 1 Russian, 2 black] , 5 men [1 WASP(Gay), 2 black, 1 Puerto Rican, 1 Jew] Yeah, I can see that male Cuban is what I like to hire.

What an ass. Normal people look for people that can get the job done and have the experience. Thats what matters in the end, not whether you're fulfilling some artoficial quota.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-13 12:42pm

What of Al Sharpton blasting Dean for having no Minority cabinet members? When I heard this I wanted to grasp his collar and yell into his face, "Do you know if any minority vyed for those jobs? Can you prove that any of said minorities were more or less qualified than any of the cabinet members there during his administration? I thought not. Have a nice day."

Now, I understand that minorities should be given as much consideration for jobs as majorities, but what the fuck, my core argument against affirmative action as it exists is that, if I get 25 people applying for a job I don't give a shit whether your black, white, asian, woman, troll, orc, Hobbit, martian, android, if you can get the job done, and do it better than the other applicants, youre hired. and to fuck with anyone that thinks less of me if everyone I hire consists of white males age 18-24 with Bachelor's degrees who all drive Saturn Ion's and wear red ties on thursdays. The bottome line is this: If you are qualified, you're hired, if not, tough. What if no minorities apply?! am I to actively SEEK them out to fill the positions, in order to avoid being branded a racist? I think not. I seek nothing on the basis of race, I seek based on what you can or cannot do. so to Al Sharpton: "Take your tired affirmative action horseshit and stick it straight up your cavernous ass."

Additionally, I realize that cabinet members are typically appointed, but I have a REALLY hard time believing that Dean said: That guy is a minority, I don't want him. THEN factor in that New Hampshire has a what, 7% minority population? kinda limits your choices if you ask me.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-13 12:51pm

Vermont, not NH.

Vermont's population is 98% white.

Chardok · Post by **Chardok** » 2004-01-13 12:53pm

Iceberg wrote:Vermont, not NH.

Vermont's population is 98% white.

Yeah...umm...that, too.

(They look that same, anyway...)

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-13 03:37pm

Chardok wrote:What of Al Sharpton blasting Dean for having no Minority cabinet members? When I heard this I wanted to grasp his collar and yell into his face, "Do you know if any minority vyed for those jobs? Can you prove that any of said minorities were more or less qualified than any of the cabinet members there during his administration? I thought not. Have a nice day."

Seriously. Since Vermont's population is massively white, then even if we assume that whites and minorities have identical qualifications if Dean just reached into a bucket and pulled names then the odds against him puling any minorities would be huge.

Now, I understand that minorities should be given as much consideration for jobs as majorities, but what the fuck, my core argument against affirmative action as it exists is that, if I get 25 people applying for a job I don't give a shit whether your black, white, asian, woman, troll, orc, Hobbit, martian, android, if you can get the job done, and do it better than the other applicants, youre hired. and to fuck with anyone that thinks less of me if everyone I hire consists of white males age 18-24 with Bachelor's degrees who all drive Saturn Ion's and wear red ties on thursdays. The bottome line is this: If you are qualified, you're hired, if not, tough. What if no minorities apply?! am I to actively SEEK them out to fill the positions, in order to avoid being branded a racist? I think not. I seek nothing on the basis of race, I seek based on what you can or cannot do. so to Al Sharpton: "Take your tired affirmative action horseshit and stick it straight up your cavernous ass."

Precisely. Another question is: do the proponents of affirmative action really want you to hire someone less qualified to do the same job? The answer has to be "no." Thus, many proponents of affirmative action are in essence demanding impossible goals.

Additionally, I realize that cabinet members are typically appointed, but I have a REALLY hard time believing that Dean said: That guy is a minority, I don't want him. THEN factor in that New Hampshire has a what, 7% minority population? kinda limits your choices if you ask me.

Frankly, Sharpton's shameless playing the race card is just a desperation move on his part. He obviously couldn't find any genuine political material with which to criticize Dean, so he dug up some crap about Dean's hiring policies and essentially accused Dean of being racist.