Hypothetical: What if Howie Dean wins on Nov 5th?

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 06:33pm

I really don't think Howie would be able to make much of a difference
as there would be enough republicans in the senate and house to fuck
over his totally stupid shit like repealing tax cuts.

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-13 06:40pm

Well, if the GOP doesn't stop running against Flat Howard, they'll definitely lose to the real candidate...

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-13 06:41pm

He's not going to get much done because I imagine Republicans will be REALLY uncooperative with him. Anything good he will do will be downplayed or taken credit by someone else, anything bad he does will be part of some unholy plot because he secret hates America, and anything he doesn't get done because of the Republicans fighting him tooth and nail will be blamed on incompetance. Pretty much politics as usual. That's not a biased snipe there against conservatives, either, just the nature of the beast. It will also radicalize them even more, and moderate Republicans are really going to suffer.

Democrats act smug as hell.

Both parties have to change their underwear, for two entirely different reasons.

Life goes on, since the system is designed that one man in office can't do much damage that can't be fixed.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-01-13 06:41pm

What if Howie Dean wins on Nov 5th?

Not much of what is on his party plank, if Presidential history is any guide.

As for the reaction, I predict much vitriol from the conservative side of the media, gloating from the left side, sudden newfound support from all of the 9 demo candidates except Kucinich and Sharpton(the real wackos), and several hind-sight news columns on how it was inevitable.

As for what he'll do, I actually bet that in spite of what he says now, he will take a considerable amount of time turning Iraq over to the UN, if he does it at all, and will certainly not withdraw-presidents usually become more pragmatic once they are in office(although still partisan), and leaving Iraq unfinished would not look good on the international scene.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 06:42pm

Iceberg wrote:Well, if the GOP doesn't stop running against Flat Howard, they'll definitely lose to the real candidate...

Who's the real candidate? Gen. Clark? Kerry? Kukinich?

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-13 06:44pm

MKSheppard wrote:Who's the real candidate? Gen. Clark? Kerry? Kukinich?

The Frankenstien they've got built in the basement of the DNC headquarters. Which is just Al Gore with bolts glued to his neck.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 06:44pm

Gil Hamilton wrote: Life goes on, since the system is designed that one man in office can't do much damage that can't be fixed.

I'd be able to live with a Dean presidency as long as the man is willing to
brutalize our opponents and be willing to give the order that causes some
islamo-fuck terrorist or whomever is planning a mass attack on americans
to end up floating downstream with lots of bullet holes in his back, and
a completely deniable backstory that prevents it from being linked to
Delta Force

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-13 06:45pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Well, if the GOP doesn't stop running against Flat Howard, they'll definitely lose to the real candidate...
Who's the real candidate? Gen. Clark? Kerry? Kukinich?

Zombie Paul Wellstone.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 06:45pm

Joe wrote:[
Zombie Paul Wellstone.

I'm surprised you still remember him...

Gil Hamilton · Post by **Gil Hamilton** » 2004-01-13 06:47pm

Joe wrote:Zombie Paul Wellstone.

If the McCain episode of SNL is to be believed, it will not be Zombie Wellstone but Zombie Jimmy Carter.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-13 06:48pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Gil Hamilton wrote: Life goes on, since the system is designed that one man in office can't do much damage that can't be fixed.
I'd be able to live with a Dean presidency as long as the man is willing to
brutalize our opponents and be willing to give the order that causes some
islamo-fuck terrorist or whomever is planning a mass attack on americans
to end up floating downstream with lots of bullet holes in his back, and
a completely deniable backstory that prevents it from being linked to
Delta Force

Hey, if a Dem was doing it, it would be considered the most glorious, righteous, and noble crusade in the history of humanity. The papers would literally gush forth with adulation on a daily basis towards Howard Dean and his noble fight to save civilization.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-01-13 06:54pm

If Dean won then I would have final proof that I'm living in an alternate universe.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 06:55pm

Joe wrote: Hey, if a Dem was doing it, it would be considered the most glorious, righteous, and noble crusade in the history of humanity. The papers would literally gush forth with adulation on a daily basis towards Howard Dean and his noble fight to save civilization.

Lets not get into that. Anyone remember the opposition to the Kosovo War?
It wasn't as widespread as Iraq, but the same group of people was the core
of protests against Kosovo who later went on to Iraq.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 07:00pm

Stravo wrote:If Dean won then I would have final proof that I'm living in an alternate universe.

Hmm, so when do we get to see Mirror Universe Stravo?

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-01-13 07:02pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Stravo wrote:If Dean won then I would have final proof that I'm living in an alternate universe.
Hmm, so when do we get to see Mirror Universe Stravo?

Sure, it's just me with a goatee in speedos, with six pack abs and I'm gay.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-13 07:10pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Joe wrote: Hey, if a Dem was doing it, it would be considered the most glorious, righteous, and noble crusade in the history of humanity. The papers would literally gush forth with adulation on a daily basis towards Howard Dean and his noble fight to save civilization.
Lets not get into that. Anyone remember the opposition to the Kosovo War?
It wasn't as widespread as Iraq, but the same group of people was the core
of protests against Kosovo who later went on to Iraq.

Except, of course, for Tom Daschle. He stated that the war in Kosovo was "completely justified," and that the Clinton administration had exhausted "all possible diplomatic solutions to the crisis" before firing weapons at Iraq. Then he turned around and criticized the Bush administration for not doing enough with diplomacy.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 07:11pm

Master of Ossus wrote: Except, of course, for Tom Daschle. He stated that the war in Kosovo was "completely justified," and that the Clinton administration had exhausted "all possible diplomatic solutions to the crisis" before firing weapons at Iraq. Then he turned around and criticized the Bush administration for not doing enough with diplomacy.

I was referring more to the virulent anti war hippies, but hey...

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-13 07:43pm

MKSheppard wrote:
Iceberg wrote:Well, if the GOP doesn't stop running against Flat Howard, they'll definitely lose to the real candidate...
Who's the real candidate? Gen. Clark? Kerry? Kukinich?

"Flat Howard" is the two-dimensional caricature of the real thing that the GOP keeps pretending is the Real Dean. By analogy to the children's book "Flat Stanley" wherein the titular character is squashed flat by a giant picture falling on him in bed. Some Dean supporters created a poster of "Flat Howard" that could be laminated onto cardboard.

MKSheppard · Post by **MKSheppard** » 2004-01-13 07:57pm

Iceberg wrote:By analogy to the children's book "Flat Stanley" wherein the titular character is squashed flat by a giant picture falling on him in bed. Some Dean supporters created a poster of "Flat Howard" that could be laminated onto cardboard.

....and so do I give a fuck about Childrens' book analogies?

Iceberg · Post by **Iceberg** » 2004-01-13 08:06pm

Well, given that the accusations leveled at Flat Howard tend to be as simplistic as children's books tend to be, the analogy is quite appropriate.

Bob McDob · Post by **Bob McDob** » 2004-01-13 08:14pm

Iceberg wrote:Well, given that the accusations leveled at Flat Howard tend to be as simplistic as children's books tend to be, the analogy is quite appropriate.

To be fair, that probably has more to do with the utter lack of faith politicians seem to hold towards the voting public.

aerius · Post by **aerius** » 2004-01-13 08:44pm

MKSheppard wrote:I'd be able to live with a Dean presidency as long as the man is willing to
brutalize our opponents and be willing to give the order that causes some
islamo-fuck terrorist or whomever is planning a mass attack on americans
to end up floating downstream with lots of bullet holes in his back, and
a completely deniable backstory that prevents it from being linked to
Delta Force

Sounds like fun, give Delta Force & SEAL Team 6 carte blanche to kill, burn & pillage. Bring the Rogue Warrior back as a consultant and have him do the organizing & ops planning, fuck, they'd be dead terrorist scumbags everywhere! That would be fun to watch.

Natorgator · Post by **Natorgator** » 2004-01-13 09:25pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Except, of course, for Tom Daschle. He stated that the war in Kosovo was "completely justified," and that the Clinton administration had exhausted "all possible diplomatic solutions to the crisis" before firing weapons at Iraq. Then he turned around and criticized the Bush administration for not doing enough with diplomacy.

Well, there was actual and real genocide going on in Kosovo at the time. One could also point out the fact that the Republicans who tout the Iraqi invasion as a "war of liberation" are the same one who wanted to stay out of Kosovo and ultimately let the genocide continue. Everyone's a hypocrite...

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2004-01-13 09:41pm

Natorgator wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Except, of course, for Tom Daschle. He stated that the war in Kosovo was "completely justified," and that the Clinton administration had exhausted "all possible diplomatic solutions to the crisis" before firing weapons at Iraq. Then he turned around and criticized the Bush administration for not doing enough with diplomacy.
Well, there was actual and real genocide going on in Kosovo at the time. One could also point out the fact that the Republicans who tout the Iraqi invasion as a "war of liberation" are the same one who wanted to stay out of Kosovo and ultimately let the genocide continue. Everyone's a hypocrite...

There was no genocide (just a bunch of marked, neatly arranged graves), first of all, and second of all, there was no mass Republican opposition to Kosovo.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2004-01-14 01:47am

Natorgator wrote:
Master of Ossus wrote:Except, of course, for Tom Daschle. He stated that the war in Kosovo was "completely justified," and that the Clinton administration had exhausted "all possible diplomatic solutions to the crisis" before firing weapons at Iraq. Then he turned around and criticized the Bush administration for not doing enough with diplomacy.
Well, there was actual and real genocide going on in Kosovo at the time. One could also point out the fact that the Republicans who tout the Iraqi invasion as a "war of liberation" are the same one who wanted to stay out of Kosovo and ultimately let the genocide continue. Everyone's a hypocrite...

1. What Republican opposition of the war in Kosovo?
2. I guess you missed the part when the American air campaign in Kosovo accomplished practically nothing, and only the British threats to invade eventually "solved" the problem. I'm not really sure how the Republicans "ultimately let the genocide continue," either way.