Bush's attempts to ban same-sex marriages

[JME2]

Of everything that he has done or proposed, I am most opposed to this.

Why? Well I can sum it up in two words:

Star Trek.

Growing up with Star Trek has established within my person an attitude of pro-diversity. I believe in cultural and racial tolerance, one of the central message of all five series. And while I am not homosexual, I have several friends whom I have good friendships with.

I support love wherever it may be found.

Bush has no right to ban this kind of union.

If he pulls this shit, then there's going to be hell to pay...

[DPDarkPrimus]

Bush is wanting $1.5 BILLION to promote "sanctity of marriage" lessons, which would not only condemn homosexuality, but teach that sex before marriage is immoral, and that all men should try and get married (to a woman, of course).

[Stormbringer]

I don't think the federal government has any reason at all to get involved like this, straight or gay.

[Tribun]

America makes me wonder.
And I as a German can't understand all that.

Here in Germany, we frown on homosexuality, that is common rection sice nearly hundred years, but give them the rights the needed, so that they are not discriminated. We don't love them but it is thier personal thing, and the state hasn't a right to prohibit it, that is the standart thinking here.

What is going on in American is outside of my reasoning.

[Knife]

Of everything that he has done or proposed, I am most opposed to this.

Why? Well I can sum it up in two words:

Star Trek.

Growing up with Star Trek has established within my person an attitude of pro-diversity. I believe in cultural and racial tolerance, one of the central message of all five series. And while I am not homosexual, I have several friends whom I have good friendships with.

I support love wherever it may be found.

Bush has no right to ban this kind of union.

If he pulls this shit, then there's going to be hell to pay...

While I don't think that using 1.5 billion on 'sanctity of marrage' is in any way a good idea in fact its a waste of cash, I don't see how its a 'ban on same sex marrage'. Especially when gay marrage is pretty much alread banned in most of the States (not that I agree with it). So how can he ban something that is already banned?

[Joe]

He isn't trying to ban gay marriage.

"If necessary, I will support a constitutional amendment which would honor marriage between a man and a woman, codify that," he said. "The position of this administration is that whatever legal arrangements people want to make, they're allowed to make, so long as it's embraced by the state or at the state level."

Emphasis mine. The "If necessary" in the first sentence seems to indicate that he doesn't want to support such a constitutional amendment.

[Dahak]

America makes me wonder.
And I as a German can't understand all that.

Here in Germany, we frown on homosexuality, that is common rection sice nearly hundred years, but give them the rights the needed, so that they are not discriminated. We don't love them but it is thier personal thing, and the state hasn't a right to prohibit it, that is the standart thinking here.

What is going on in American is outside of my reasoning.

I, as a fellow German, would say otherwise.
We do have a same sex "marriage", and, while some right wingers and conservative fundies are against it, Germany is incredibly open towards homosexuality.

[Chardok]

I have a very simple question:

what is wrong with people? Huh? Why are we so fucking terrible to each other? Why can't we live and let live, eh? why spend 1.5 BILLION dollars on reducing the divorce rate, or preventing gay marriage, or whatever, when we are going TO THE MOON, and MAYBE to Mars!!! We've got bigger things to worry about, IMHO than the silly little miniscule moral implications that one group or the other may object to regarding gay marriages. I honestly don't see how anyone can hate one group of people just because they are different than you! I just don't get it.


....and I continue to weep for the future.

[JME2]

I have a very simple question:

what is wrong with people? Huh? Why are we so fucking terrible to each other? Why can't we live and let live, eh? why spend 1.5 BILLION dollars on reducing the divorce rate, or preventing gay marriage, or whatever, when we are going TO THE MOON, and MAYBE to Mars!!! We've got bigger things to worry about, IMHO than the silly little miniscule moral implications that one group or the other may object to regarding gay marriages. I honestly don't see how anyone can hate one group of people just because they are different than you! I just don't get it.


....and I continue to weep for the future.

Bush doesen't care about the moon. If he had his way, we wouldn't be going anywhere. The only reason he's using the incentive of 'going to the moon again' is to help his campgain.

[Sebastin]

America makes me wonder.
And I as a German can't understand all that.

Here in Germany, we frown on homosexuality, that is common rection sice nearly hundred years, but give them the rights the needed, so that they are not discriminated. We don't love them but it is thier personal thing, and the state hasn't a right to prohibit it, that is the standart thinking here.

What is going on in American is outside of my reasoning.

I, as a fellow German, would say otherwise.
We do have a same sex "marriage", and, while some right wingers and conservative fundies are against it, Germany is incredibly open towards homosexuality.

So would I.

I have seen quite a few gays telling others about it and i never saw anyone giving any reaction beyond a simple shrug. This includes the army where there wasn´t even so much as an raised eyebrow at (at least) one recruit bringing his boyfriend to the public oath. And, in addition to being very flamboyant (I´m talking einhander levels here) he was a professional hairstylist, so it´s not like he wasn´t providing ammo. Yet he felt comfortable enough with the army to sign up for 4 years.

Hell, berlins mayor is gay. He had his coming out about a week before inauguration and his words were promptly turned into a popular running gag. (He made a pretty funny freudian slip).

[neoolong]

Bush is wanting $1.5 BILLION to promote "sanctity of marriage" lessons, which would not only condemn homosexuality, but teach that sex before marriage is immoral, and that all men should try and get married (to a woman, of course).

Maybe he should have tried stopping shows like "Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire" in order to protect the "sanctity of marriage."

[kojikun]

This includes the army where there wasn´t even so much as an raised eyebrow at (at least) one recruit bringing his boyfriend to the public oath. And, in addition to being very flamboyant (I´m talking einhander levels here) he was a professional hairstylist, so it´s not like he wasn´t providing ammo. Yet he felt comfortable enough with the army to sign up for 4 years.

Wait wait.. the German Army allows openly flaming homosexuals in? And they don't even flinch? I'm moving to Germany..

[Gil Hamilton]

He isn't trying to ban gay marriage.

"If necessary, I will support a constitutional amendment which would honor marriage between a man and a woman, codify that," he said. "The position of this administration is that whatever legal arrangements people want to make, they're allowed to make, so long as it's embraced by the state or at the state level."

Emphasis mine. The "If necessary" in the first sentence seems to indicate that he doesn't want to support such a constitutional amendment.

Wait a sec... that passage would indicate that he is willing to support a constitutional amendment that defines marriage as between a man and a woman if it came down to it. In fact, it directly states it. All that passage says is that he doesn't want to get into the issue right now and is leaving it as a state issue.

[darthdavid]

Bush may burn in hell for this.

[Knife]

Bush doesen't care about the moon. If he had his way, we wouldn't be going anywhere. The only reason he's using the incentive of 'going to the moon again' is to help his campgain.

While no one could deny the political aspects of his Nasa speech in the political season, I want to hear your reasons why you think Bush doesen't care about the moon and if he had his way we wouldn't be going anywhere.

[Stravo]

Bush doesen't care about the moon. If he had his way, we wouldn't be going anywhere. The only reason he's using the incentive of 'going to the moon again' is to help his campgain.

While no one could deny the political aspects of his Nasa speech in the political season, I want to hear your reasons why you think Bush doesen't care about the moon and if he had his way we wouldn't be going anywhere.

Because I've noticed a startling ability in people opposed to Bush, they gain telepathic abilties.

[Joe]

Wait a sec... that passage would indicate that he is willing to support a constitutional amendment that defines marriage as between a man and a woman if it came down to it. In fact, it directly states it. All that passage says is that he doesn't want to get into the issue right now and is leaving it as a state issue.

But he doesn't want it to come down to that, see? He wants it to stay in the States and be left there; in other words, he isn't trying to instate a national ban on gay marriage. This is an attempt to continue sucking up to religious types while avoiding signing an idiotic amendment.

[Master of Ossus]

I really don't see this as being a tremendous defeat for the gay community, even if marriage were so defined. Couldn't they come up with a different term that comes with the rights and privileges enjoyed by married couples? Frankly, if the politicians ever said that gays and lesbians could enjoy an institution with all the legal privileges and rights as married men and women, they just had to call it [insert term here], then I for one would support such a position.

[Knife]

While no one could deny the political aspects of his Nasa speech in the political season, I want to hear your reasons why you think Bush doesen't care about the moon and if he had his way we wouldn't be going anywhere.

Because I've noticed a startling ability in people opposed to Bush, they gain telepathic abilties.

Oh, I pretty much figure that. I just want to hear/read his justification on it. Should be either interesting or entertaining.

[Joe]

Bush doesen't care about the moon. If he had his way, we wouldn't be going anywhere. The only reason he's using the incentive of 'going to the moon again' is to help his campgain.

While no one could deny the political aspects of his Nasa speech in the political season, I want to hear your reasons why you think Bush doesen't care about the moon and if he had his way we wouldn't be going anywhere.

Because I've noticed a startling ability in people opposed to Bush, they gain telepathic abilties.

Dammit, you beat me to the punch! I had typed out just about the exact same rebuttal before I saw yours.

[Gil Hamilton]

But he doesn't want it to come down to that, see? He wants it to stay in the States and be left there; in other words, he isn't trying to instate a national ban on gay marriage. This is an attempt to continue sucking up to religious types while avoiding signing an idiotic amendment.

If he didn't support a national ban, he won't say that he does. If he really was in fact against it, he would say "I would not support such a constitutional amendment." The fact that he's willing to support such a ban to the point of making it a constitutional amendment and says so proves that he is, in fact, against gay marriage.

[The Yosemite Bear]

America makes me wonder.
And I as a German can't understand all that.

Here in Germany, we frown on homosexuality, that is common rection sice nearly hundred years, but give them the rights the needed, so that they are not discriminated. We don't love them but it is thier personal thing, and the state hasn't a right to prohibit it, that is the standart thinking here.

What is going on in American is outside of my reasoning.

Not entirely for the last hundred years, you had that period just before WWI lasting into the 1920's when it was entirely acceptable for women to wear men's clothes, and make out in public with their girlfriends.....

[Gil Hamilton]

Because I've noticed a startling ability in people opposed to Bush, they gain telepathic abilties.

And yet Bush supporters seem to gain telepathic abilities to read his mind as to say that he's for or against something that they are for or against, even though he makes directly to the contrary.

[The Yosemite Bear]

oh, and Marlene Deitrich was sex on toast....

[neoolong]

He isn't trying to ban gay marriage.

"If necessary, I will support a constitutional amendment which would honor marriage between a man and a woman, codify that," he said. "The position of this administration is that whatever legal arrangements people want to make, they're allowed to make, so long as it's embraced by the state or at the state level."

Emphasis mine. The "If necessary" in the first sentence seems to indicate that he doesn't want to support such a constitutional amendment.

That seems to contradict his earlier words on the subject.

"I think it's very important for our society to respect each individual, to welcome those with good hearts, to be a welcoming country.

On the other hand, that does not mean that somebody like me needs to compromise on an issue such as marriage. And that's really where the issue is headed here in Washington, and that is the definition of marriage. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman. And I think we ought to codify that one way or the other. And we've got lawyers looking at the best way to do that."